Privatized police department.

[ZombieRothbard]

I've said this a billion times.

You would get help but you would be charged.

6 Flags (its a theme park) for example, if you dont have season passes they will still let you in but you need to buy tickets.

It might be incredibly stupid and I know that the law of physics may not exist in your world, but, you can't pay someone without your wallet.

[ZombieRothbard]

It isn't a question of whether they WANT to or not, it is a question of whether they NEED to.

They don't. They won't. They shouldn't. They're Federally insured.

Lol, FDIC insurance is a joke. How do they make them whole? Print more money and devalue the currency?

[The Parkus Empire]

It might be incredibly stupid and I know that the law of physics may not exist in your world, but, you can't pay someone without your wallet.

As in, if you don't have your wallet with you then you're fucked.

[Norstal]

It might be incredibly stupid and I know that the law of physics may not exist in your world, but, you can't pay someone without your wallet.

He said you would get charged before the private police helps you. Like Six Flags.

But...you can't pay anyone if you don't have a wallet. It's a simple physics problem. Wallet = missing = can't pay. How is that so difficult?

[The Parkus Empire]

They don't. They won't. They shouldn't. They're Federally insured.

Lol, FDIC insurance is a joke. How do they make them whole? Print more money and devalue the currency?

Sure. It's a better solution than your "money over people" ancap idea of a shootout every time there's a robbery (cause to hell with bystanders when you have an AK-47).

[Lomenore]

Theoretically, companies would work together and share information. Perhaps companies will sell each other evidence? I don't know how they would solve it. The divide between us, is that I have faith in entrepreneurship and markets, and you don't.

Faith is for religions. If you want to demonstrate how an ideology will work, you need to do more then profess faith. If companies sell each other evidence, that increases their operating expenses and will increase costs for the customer. Also, what if the prosecution's company finds some evidence that exonerates the defendant? It's in their financial interest to sit on this evidence so they can get paid.

And none of this answers the conflict of interest created by the investigation conducted by someone being paid by the person on trial. If you were on trial for murder, and you heard your accuser paid the police to look for evidence to convict you, would you trust that justice would be done?

A topic like private defense probably isn't the best topic to discuss if we are going to jump into anarcho-capitalist theory. If we really wanted to have a hardcore discussion on private defense, it would first be necessary to discuss why it is that I have so much faith in the market and entrepreneurship, which requires a separate discussion entirely (one we will have in the future, when I get around the making the topic, I promise!).

I can at least agree that this isn't the place to discuss anarcho-capitalist theory.

The problem with murder, is that it is an act of finality. I can't really answer that question, because the worth of a life is relative. In a free market system, a price would be put on human life. Some people would find that disgusting. I personally don't, because to not put a price on human life, is to make it worth zero. To prove my point, take an army unit. If every soldier who died, required the general of the army to pay 40,000 dollars in compensation to the victims estate, it is a logical conclusion to reach that he would try his hardest to minimize casualties, where as before he might take a riskier approach that could endanger more lives than necessary.

But to your question about life insurance. I would say that if they cannot afford to have it, they shouldn't have it.

So let me see if I get this straight. You're saying that if there's no price attached to a human life, that human life is worthless. That without an established value of inherent worth, a human is worthless. OK, that much makes sense. I have no disagreement with that. If life is not valued, then it is indeed worthless.

But you shouldn't need life insurance for a human being to be worth something. No one should ever say of a human "They're worth nothing because you haven't paid for them."

If nothing else, there should be a set minimum. Back in the dark ages, there was a weregild set by Salic law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weregild

If you killed or injured a man, you had to pay the weregild. I think you could at least have that, but if there's a group powerful enough to set down the value of a human life and enforce it, that's rather close to a government. So I don't think a weregild could be part of an anarchocapitalist system.

EDIT: I suppose life insurance companies could unite and set the minimal weregild of a human life, but how is that any different from government representatives meeting in Congress to make laws?

[ZombieRothbard]

He said you would get charged before the private police helps you. Like Six Flags.

But...you can't pay anyone if you don't have a wallet. It's a simple physics problem. Wallet = missing = can't pay. How is that so difficult?

You carry all the money you own in a wallet?

[Norstal]

Uh, okay. The crux of the argument of how megacorporations formed, such as Standard Oil, is because of government intervention.

Yet, when attacked by the fact that the Wild West could not have been created from a megacorporation (the railroad companies cough cough) you say it's not from government intervention?

Wtf.

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_West# ... d_the_West

Oh look, its not so laissez faire anymore, does it?

No people would of went to the west either way with or without gov help. There would have been railroads with or without government help.

Yes. Until they get killed by the Indians.

There is a reason why early British colonials didn't expand beyond the Appalachian.

They protected what does that have to do with regulation? Which actually is quite debatable.
Also this: https://mises.org/journals/jls/3_1/3_1_2.pdf

I'm an idiot at economics. Really, I explained this to ZR thousand of times, so explain that to me please?

[The Parkus Empire]

He said you would get charged before the private police helps you. Like Six Flags.

But...you can't pay anyone if you don't have a wallet. It's a simple physics problem. Wallet = missing = can't pay. How is that so difficult?

You carry all the money you own in a wallet?

At any given moment, a lot of people don't have money or a wallet on them.

[Norstal]

He said you would get charged before the private police helps you. Like Six Flags.

But...you can't pay anyone if you don't have a wallet. It's a simple physics problem. Wallet = missing = can't pay. How is that so difficult?

You carry all the money you own in a wallet?

No. But in Natapoc's hypothetical, she's visiting New York. So all the money is in her hometown.

As for a bank, the privatized bank in her hometown is not connected to any of the privatized banks in New York. What now?

[Sibirsky]

Why wouldn't they?

Because they don't want to die.

Do any of you know the first thing about security guards?

And cops, that don't have an obligation to do shit, want to die?

[The Parkus Empire]

Let's face it: a totally privatized police force = having to wear some big, fat fucking certificate all the time that shows you're insured.

[Lomenore]

I imagine it would be like using another bank's ATM. You could still get your money, but there would be a user fee.

[Sibirsky]

Why do cops stop armed people now? Why wouldn't they in a privatized society lol? If you don't, you get fired. You need to support your family somehow.

Unless, you know, they make up a story as to why they ran away.

It isn't hard to assume that private companies wouldn't cut costs by training it's police less and less.

We're talking about casinos. With tens of millions of dollars on the floor. With more cameras than anywhere else. Make up anything you want. Video says otherwise.

[The Parkus Empire]

Because they don't want to die.

Do any of you know the first thing about security guards?

And cops, that don't have an obligation to do shit, want to die?

Cops get a lot better benefits, pay and respect (they're fucking heroes), if they die their families are covered for life, plus more tend to join for ideological reasons.

[Natapoc]

You carry all the money you own in a wallet?

No. But in Natapoc's hypothetical, she's visiting New York. So all the money is in her hometown.

As for a bank, the privatized bank in her hometown is not connected to any of the privatized banks in New York. Assume further that the currency they used are also different. What now?

Yes but it's not even necessary for it to get that different. remember also my initial question was what reason would I have to not favor a single company that would cover me everywhere.

I believe this is a compelling argument for why a free market in this case would support a monopoly unless something was done to actively resist it. People travel ALLOT and it's not just rich vacationers. I've never been on a vacation(in a traditional sense) but I've traveled all over the world to work.

[Sibirsky]

Monopolies are not creations of the market.

Why? A company goes into business to make money, right?

They make more money if they do better then their competitors, right?

Do well enough, and your competitors go out of business. Lather, rinse and repeat until the competitors are all gone. What results, is a monopoly.

And the entire time, nobody else enters the market? Impossible.

[Lomenore]

Why? A company goes into business to make money, right?

They make more money if they do better then their competitors, right?

Do well enough, and your competitors go out of business. Lather, rinse and repeat until the competitors are all gone. What results, is a monopoly.

And the entire time, nobody else enters the market? Impossible.

Oh other people would enter the market, but they wouldn't have the same production capacity, knowledge base, expertise, or financial assets an entrenched monopoly would have. Those are all weapons a monopoly can use to drive startup competitors out of business.

[Norstal]

No. But in Natapoc's hypothetical, she's visiting New York. So all the money is in her hometown.

As for a bank, the privatized bank in her hometown is not connected to any of the privatized banks in New York. Assume further that the currency they used are also different. What now?

Yes but it's not even necessary for it to get that different. remember also my initial question was what reason would I have to not favor a single company that would cover me everywhere.

I believe this is a compelling argument for why a free market in this case would support a monopoly unless something was done to actively resist it. People travel ALLOT and it's not just rich vacationers. I've never been on a vacation(in a traditional sense) but I've traveled all over the world to work.

Yes, and I do believe this extends to other essential services. Hence why the notion that Free Market can't solve everything, just as a nail can't solve every mechanical engineering problem or that while loops can solve all programming problems. It's silly.

Just as anarchy can't solve everything! *hides*

[The Parkus Empire]

Why? A company goes into business to make money, right?

They make more money if they do better then their competitors, right?

Do well enough, and your competitors go out of business. Lather, rinse and repeat until the competitors are all gone. What results, is a monopoly.

And the entire time, nobody else enters the market? Impossible.

Because if you have a lot of money and the best armed security in town, coercion ain't easy.

[ZombieRothbard]

No. But in Natapoc's hypothetical, she's visiting New York. So all the money is in her hometown.

As for a bank, the privatized bank in her hometown is not connected to any of the privatized banks in New York. Assume further that the currency they used are also different. What now?

Yes but it's not even necessary for it to get that different. remember also my initial question was what reason would I have to not favor a single company that would cover me everywhere.

I believe this is a compelling argument for why a free market in this case would support a monopoly unless something was done to actively resist it. People travel ALLOT and it's not just rich vacationers. I've never been on a vacation(in a traditional sense) but I've traveled all over the world to work.

Private defense is definitely a hard issue, because it is so abstract and completely theoretical. I plan on investigating it quite thoroughly though. I own Hoppe's essay on it, I own For a New Liberty, which I believe is the only place where Rothbard laid out his own theory of how it would function. I guess Milton Friedmen's son wrote about it, although he comes at it from a utilitarian approach instead of a natural rights one. Bob Murphy's work Chaos Theory is devoted to private defense. I plan on reading all of them (I own three out of the four, I have read two). I want to write a research paper on it and offer my critique of all the theories, and then possibly offer my own (yeah, like who will care right? haha). But I have to go for a bit. I want to read one of my professors dissertations I am borrowing for the weekend.

[Sibirsky]

Why do cops stop armed people now? Why wouldn't they in a privatized society lol? If you don't, you get fired. You need to support your family somehow.

Police are motivated by a sense of duty to the community that they serve. With a few exceptions, they're not hired guns. They put their lives on the line for an ethic of public service.

Do they feel that "sense of duty" when 10 of them break down doors and shoot family pets in front of 5 year old children over a gram of weed?

Meanwhile, a few miles away women are being raped and they don't do shit.

Sense of duty^TM

[Norstal]

Police are motivated by a sense of duty to the community that they serve. With a few exceptions, they're not hired guns. They put their lives on the line for an ethic of public service.

Do they feel that "sense of duty" when 10 of them break down doors and shoot family pets in front of 5 year old children over a gram of weed?

Meanwhile, a few miles away women are being raped and they don't do shit.

Sense of duty^TM

Police are not supermen. Are you so perfect yourself then? Maybe you should become a policeman.

[Sibirsky]

Forced? How so?

Because say I buy from my local company. Now I go to new york which is on the opposite side of the country.

I don't even WANT to be in NY. I'm just there for a stupid stopover to get somewhere else. I don't even like new york. But I grab something to eat and my wallet is stolen. So what do I do?

I call up my private police agency. They tell me: I'm sorry but we have no ability to send investigators to the other side of the country.

I contact the nearest cop looking person who says: Are you a client? Then GTFO!

Now I'm late for my flight and stranded in New york and the police won't talk to me till I sign a contract with their office which is open from 9 to 5 monday to friday.

Nah. You just call an 800 number and they hook you up right away.

Or, just cancel or your cards and move on. Government cops almost never recover that shit.

[Lomenore]

Do you have any statistics for rapes commited by police? Or stolen property they did or didn't recover? Are you going to provide any information or just paint libel with a broad brush?