USian: Harmless Title or Fascist Conspiracy?

[Sdaeriji]

No! Come to Massachusetts! We have apple cider.

New England, and Massachusetts in particular are always on my itinerary when I go to the USA. So don't worry, I'll be spending my krona on Abercrombie&Fitch-wearing twinkish college frats, too. My absolutism bars apple cider, however. And my anti-carbism rules out apple juice.

So let me get this straight... You use the term USian to refer to AMERICANS and you think fraternity brothers wear Abercrombie?

You aren't even worth my time if this is the extent of your American understanding. If you suddenly have a realization that you are living in the dark ages, you can find me be enjoying mint julips in the cabana with my fraternity brothers and sorostitutes who are oddly enough all wearing polo, brooks brothers, southern tide, belle bait, southern proper, lacoste, vineyard vines, lilly pulitzer or the such...

We already had an entire thread dedicated to your abysmal fashion sense, please don't ruin another one.

[Intangelon]

Here's my opinion. While other languages can turn their words for "United States" into an adjective that doesn't sound like nails on a lingual chalkboard, English is a bit limited in that respect. The adjective for the United States, in English, is "US". US citizen, US city, and so forth. However, it is a bit easier to say "I am an American" than to say "I am a US citizen" or "I am a citizen of the US". And calling myself an American is not incorrect. I do, in fact, reside on the supercontinent of America.

Fair enough, and good point.

Yes, there are millions of other people who live on the American supercontinent residing in various nations on two different continents. All of these people are entitled to use the adjective "American". But what I don't get is why people in such nations as Brazil or Venezuela are so intent on using it. A person from Brazil is- in English- a Brazillian. When introducing her or himself to a person in, say, Portugal, they would probably say "I am a Brazillian." Easy enough, right? If s/he said "I am an American", that's a bit vauge. Even just saying "I am a South American" would be fairly non-specific. Our Brazillian friend- who is speaking in English to someone in Portugal for reasons unknown- is certainly entitled to use "American" or "South American" but it seems to me that it makes more sense for him or her to refer to her/his country of origin, rather than her/his supercontinent of origin. I would hope that most people would have the prior knowledge that Brazil is on the American supercontinent.

Uh...A Brazilian would use Portuguese...a language in which "UnitedStatesian" flows quite nicely. Are we now to control how others speak of us in their own language? "Reasons unknown" doesn't make a good argument.

The adjective "American" has two different uses. It can refer to someone from the American supercontinent or, less officially, a person from the United States of America. That's just the way it is. I've never been to Europe, but I'm fairly sure that if I introduced myself to someone in Britain or France as an "American", they would not ask "Oh, which country?"

Is/ought.

What is, at all, inherently wrong with people referring to others in non-derogatory ways? Only the most rabid patriots in the US (and I know more than a few) seem to get bent out of shape at that. When asked why, they deflect and dissemble: "it sounds stupid", or "everyone knows what American means" -- well...so what? What these vehement defenders aren't saying is this: "it's American because Americans deserve more consideration than anyone else and DEMAND to be called what WE want you to call us". This despite the fact that no other nationality seems to get that upset about it (witness Fass' presentation of "Swedes" versus "Svenskar").

On a closing note, I wouldn't mind the term "US American" if it weren't for that South Carolinian beauty queen a few years ago. She's the first result if you google "US Americans".

Well, pageantry aside, the whole issue would disappear if folks would unclench. It's like Bill Hicks said when the SCOTUS upheld a ruling that flag-burning was, in some cases, Constitutionally-protected free speech. "People went nuts over this! They thought that the ruling meant that they HAD to burn flags! No, no, no, NO! If you don't want to burn a flag, DON'T! Relax! Listen! Read! Shut the fuck up!"

Same thing with abortion, homosexual marriage, the whole ball of wax when it comes to things some dislike but have no harmful effect on them. Don't like it? Don't do it. Screeching about it merely draws attention and makes the screecher look much worse than the mild childishness of using USian (without provocation ).

[Intangelon]

and your first article focuses on foriegn words for Citizen of the USA. we are talking about the English name.

And the English (as used in England, which is what really counts after all... ) names for those people include "Yankees", or simply "Yanks"...

which I have no problem with. I'm sure some of the labels we use for the British is just as 'funny' or 'offensive' as yanks.

but there is no push to have Americans call themselves 'yanks' as far as I know.

Just as there is no push to have Americans call themselves USians. It's a term some choose to use. That's all.

[Parthenon]

New England, and Massachusetts in particular are always on my itinerary when I go to the USA. So don't worry, I'll be spending my krona on Abercrombie&Fitch-wearing twinkish college frats, too. My absolutism bars apple cider, however. And my anti-carbism rules out apple juice.

So let me get this straight... You use the term USian to refer to AMERICANS and you think fraternity brothers wear Abercrombie?

You aren't even worth my time if this is the extent of your American understanding. If you suddenly have a realization that you are living in the dark ages, you can find me be enjoying mint julips in the cabana with my fraternity brothers and sorostitutes who are oddly enough all wearing polo, brooks brothers, southern tide, belle bait, southern proper, lacoste, vineyard vines, lilly pulitzer or the such...

We already had an entire thread dedicated to your abysmal fashion sense, please don't ruin another one.

Give it a fucking rest. I dare you to walk into an office, job interview, country club, upscale restaurant, golf club, or resort dressed in a shitty graphic tee and tight jeans and see how you get looked at.

[Intangelon]

And you're free to do so, of course. Just like you can choose to call Swedes "bögar". ( ) Just like the French can call people in the USA "étasuniens", just like I can call them "förentastatare" or "US American" or whatever. Because that's the way things are. We all call people whatever we want, and do not primarily care what they call themselves.

No, we call Swedes ''Those damn foreigners''.

Really? here in Hawaii, we call them 'Welcomed Visitors!"

And hand them SPF50 sunscreen in 55-gallon drums!

[Sudreich]

I think it's more a matter of personal preference too, although you can't claim your meaning of American to be the only one while at it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_American_States
Organization of American States, eh? To those Americans who only see one meaning to the word American, they'll think it's some sort of organization for the states within the USA. Only when they click the link they'll find out there's 37 political entities which can be called American nations, much as the members of the EU may be called European nations. Two official, usable meanings of the word American, in two different contexts.

Personally I dislike USian and think there's little confusion when using American for the USA. But considering few, precious examples like the above, I defend the use of the adjective American and substantive America for supercontinental context just as much as for USA context. It's official and it's not wrong. If questioned about "Oh, there's other American countries you know" I'd say "I know that, but I'm referring to the USA right now though"

[Turkish Federation]

1. The US should not be called America. America is a whole continent.
2. However, for the demonym, it's a little confusing. I say American, but technically USian should be the demonym.

[Galloism]

I found a gif that expresses my indifference to the term USian:

[Brogavia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_American_States
Organization of American States, eh? To those Americans who only see one meaning to the word American, they'll think it's some sort of organization for the states within the USA. Only when they click the link they'll find out there's 37 political entities which can be called American nations, much as the members of the EU may be called European nations. Two official, usable meanings of the word American, in two different contexts.

They call themselves that so when they finally become actually American states like the 50 we already have, they can say they always were.

[JuNii]

Wait -- who here has suggested that those who refer to citizens of the USA as Americans should stop? I'll wait.

The Swedes can tolerate not being called Svenskar, but NOBODY, repeat NOBODY has told them to stop referring to themselves that way.

Just like NOBODY, repeat, NOBODY has demanded that you or anyone else stop using American.

How is that so hard to see? Why must people who argue like you do inject lies and deliberate inaccuracy into the argument?

my bad, I was referring to the past "USain" vs "American" threads that were in jolt.

[Intangelon]

People, in case you've never noticed, "America" is technically the name of the country. "United States" is a prefix that many countries use or have used in the past - Mexico, for example. We just happen to borrow the name of the country from the name of the continent. Nothing wrong with that. The UK does the same thing, their prefix being "United Kingdom" and the technical name "Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

So, in fact, "American" is the proper way to say it, same way we call people from Germany "Germans", people from Russia "Russians, and people from China "Chinese".

No, it isn't "technically" anything but a shortening. The United States of America is the "technical" name of the country.

"Proper" is irrelevant. We can call ourselves whatever we want to. Now, if the situation is a formal one, I would use more accepted and less slangy terminology. However, the Internet is anything but formal. USian is easier to type. That, along with the occasional badgering to someone who's earned it, are the only reasons I'll use that term.

You can trumpet "propriety" all you like, it doesn't change the fact that you've got no control over what someone calls you unless it's genuinely derogative -- and deciding that USian is derogative is beyond arbitrary...and lends fuel to your foes' fire.

[Fassitude]

So let me get this straight... You use the term USian to refer to AMERICANS and you think fraternity brothers wear Abercrombie?

The ones who have a far better fashion sense, and look a lot better, than you do, I should hope (which should mean most). Because, you see - you have no fashion sense, as that thread of yours proved. So, you claiming that they don't probably means they do. And lucky for me, they'll wear whatever I request they wear. Because they'll be wanting to suck my cock, you see, and one should never underestimate what college fag frats in the USA are ready to do for some sweet Corbin Fisher/Sean Cody-type action.

[JuNii]

oops... ignore this fass... come see our beautiful islands! Spend money... please...

Let's put it like this: you pass that gender neutral marriage law you've been ever so close to passing so many times, and I'll come spend as much of my childless, higher tax bracket disposable income I can spare on leis and vegan luaus.

sorry, no can do.

our State Constitution was already re-written to define marriage as one man and one woman. what is now up for vote is Same Sex Civil Unions (next session).

[Intangelon]

They also discussed German as the national language and the Wild Turkey as the national symbol. Should we now also fall back and start using those as well in place of english and the bald eagle?

*sigh*

Do you ever tire of that childish line of argument saying that "they did it, so can we" or "they also did THIS, should WE?" Truly, it's getting old...however, there is something to be said for reliability.

The point about showing that it was in consideration as Mr. Mencken found it between 1798 and 1936 means that the word is NOT "made up", but was, in fact, coined and discussed anywhere from 73 to 211 years ago. That's the point.

I was merely following your use examples. Not my problem if you can't discern that. You quoted examples of proposals other than "American" to legitimize its use, I pointed out that it was not alone in having alternate proposals. Again, not my problem if you cannot read my posts without projecting your own bias onto it.

Using your own, consistent, line of argument -- I'm just doing what you do, if that's the case.

The fact that USian was once considered in the past makes it relevant. The fact that it wasn't adopted doesn't matter. The "don't tread on me" flag was not adopted officially, either, but it's still in widespread use across the country. You are not "following my use examples", you're gainsaying me and then claiming "bias" whenever someone shows you you're wrong.

If that's how you want to argue, I'll once again point out that there's something to be said for consistency.

[Brogavia]

1. The US should not be called America. America is a whole continent.
2. However, for the demonym, it's a little confusing. I say American, but technically USian should be the demonym.

There is no Contienent called America. There is North America, and South America.

And then there is America, which is a country bordered in the North by The Dominion of Canada(Citzens known as DOCians), the South by United Mexican States(Who's citizens are UMSians) and Stretches from the Atlantic in the East to the Pacific in the West.

[Intangelon]

I'm never sure which is sillier: the asserted outrage over the use of the term "USian" or the silly excuses made up for using the term.

I'm thinking that's a dead heat.

[Fassitude]

Give it a fucking rest. I dare you to walk into an office, job interview, country club, upscale restaurant, golf club, or resort dressed in a shitty graphic tee and tight jeans and see how you get looked at.

Far more favourably than as an extra from a period piece on the first third of the former century, or an anachronistic "fashion" (not that your style could be referred to as that without much giggling) victim, I'd gather.

[Intangelon]

I'm never sure which is sillier: the asserted outrage over the use of the term "USian" or the silly excuses made up for using the term.

That's why, when these threads pop up, I usually enter on the side that is acting less indignant.

Hey, get outta my head!

On second thought...welcome! Have a cigar and a scotch.

[Vaarshire]

Uh...A Brazilian would use Portuguese...a language in which "UnitedStatesian" flows quite nicely. Are we now to control how others speak of us in their own language? "Reasons unknown" doesn't make a good argument.

I know that a Brazillian would use Portugese. I was making fun of my own somewhat senseless example when I said that he was speaking English for "reasons unknown." But my whole point was that in my view it made little sense to introduce one's self as an American in reference to what supercontinent s/he was from. I was corrected in a previous post in that "American" is used in that context to compare a nation with the others on the supercontinent, or to refer to the collective peoples of the entire supercontinent.

[Fassitude]

sorry, no can do.
our State Constitution was already re-written to define marriage as one man and one woman. what is now up for vote is Same Sex Civil Unions (next session).

Then you're nothing but like the rest of flyover country, sadly.

[Brogavia]

Give it a fucking rest. I dare you to walk into an office, job interview, country club, upscale restaurant, golf club, or resort dressed in a shitty graphic tee and tight jeans and see how you get looked at.

Far more favourably than as an extra from a period piece on the first third of the former century, or an anachronistic "fashion" (not that your style could be referred to as that without much giggling) victim, I'd gather.

Parathenon, give it a rest. You can't take anything Fass says seriously. Hes a Swedish ultra-nationalist that hates Americans for being ultra-nationalistic.

[Intangelon]

Well, since it has been determined and/or declared to be an invalid matter to debate and is merely a matter of personal preference, I prefer "Citizens of the segment of the North American land mass which serves as a landbridge between Mexico and Canada." because it sounds like something Eric Idle would say.

Now THAT's accurate!

I use USian to counter unreasonable indignation and when I'm really pressed for time in a post -- it is considerably easier for me to type. I've never used it in spoken English because, as many have repeatedly pointed out, it's verbally awkward. However, since it is both accurate and abbreviated, it's very handy in typing online.

[Sudreich]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_American_States
Organization of American States, eh? To those Americans who only see one meaning to the word American, they'll think it's some sort of organization for the states within the USA. Only when they click the link they'll find out there's 37 political entities which can be called American nations, much as the members of the EU may be called European nations. Two official, usable meanings of the word American, in two different contexts.

They call themselves that so when they finally become actually American states like the 50 we already have, they can say they always were.

And here's my example taking life of its own: The close-minded American who only admits one meaning to the word American. So, how is it like to be a troll? Do people like you more for it and shower you with compliments?

I don't think I should bother but just FYI, the reunion which formed the OAS as we know it was led by US Secretary of State George Marshal and also included a pledge to fight "communism", so I'm pretty sure it had more American fingers in it than others'.

By the way, no thank you, we don't want to be your states. We'll think about it if you ask nicely, ok?

[Western Mercenary Unio]

And hand them SPF50 sunscreen in 55-gallon drums!

That's because nobody from the Nordic Countries was meant to be in that climate.

[Intangelon]

No! Come to Massachusetts! We have apple cider.

New England, and Massachusetts in particular are always on my itinerary when I go to the USA. So don't worry, I'll be spending my krona on Abercrombie&Fitch-wearing twinkish college frats, too. My absolutism bars apple cider, however. And my anti-carbism rules out apple juice.

So let me get this straight... You use the term USian to refer to AMERICANS and you think fraternity brothers wear Abercrombie?

You aren't even worth my time if this is the extent of your American understanding. If you suddenly have a realization that you are living in the dark ages, you can find me be enjoying mint julips in the cabana with my fraternity brothers and sorostitutes who are oddly enough all wearing polo, brooks brothers, southern tide, belle bait, southern proper, lacoste, vineyard vines, lilly pulitzer or the such...

Translation: It's not JUST Abercrombie. It's other pretentious clothing, too!

Is it possible, Partholomew, that Fass, so very well known for yanking just about everyone's chain in NSG, is either kidding or generalizing in a non-pejorative manner because he's being brief? Or are you demanding that he mention EVERY line of artificially-expensive clothing frat-rats might wear in order to be stupidly accurate? Unclench, brother.