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What is the mechanism by which human knowledge expands?

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Soudhamini
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What is the mechanism by which human knowledge expands?

Postby Soudhamini » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:45 am

Everyone talks on knowledge expansion. Being a humble human, I want to know the exact mechanism by which human knowledge expands. I asked several of my highly educated professors, reputed scientists and respected philosophers. I too had spent hours in searching the internet to find out the mechanism by which human knowledge expands. I have failed in my attempts. Could you help me to figure out the exact mechanism by which human knowledge expands?

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Postby Gaiso » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:00 am

Do you mean the internal mechanism that allows an individual person to learn, or the method by which humanity as a whole learns?

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Iuuvic
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Postby Iuuvic » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:14 am

Yes a bit confusing. I would say memory retention, learned behavior, reasonable deduction all sort of combine to learn and understand new things. Leaps and bounds add a little imagination into that mix.
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Postby Soudhamini » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:14 am

Gaiso wrote:Do you mean the internal mechanism that allows an individual person to learn, or the method by which humanity as a whole learns?

I want to know the exact workable mechanism, not the personal opinion!

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Postby Soudhamini » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:16 am

Iuuvic wrote:Yes a bit confusing. I would say memory retention, learned behavior, reasonable deduction all sort of combine to learn and understand new things. Leaps and bounds add a little imagination into that mix.

They are the methods of transmission and reproduction of existing knowledge

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Georgism
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Postby Georgism » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:18 am

By discovering stuff innit
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Postby Iuuvic » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:21 am

Well than you need to break down such a broad description as 'knowledge'.

****Semantic Memory stores knowledge of the 'external world'****

The process of memory storage accures on the cellular level, a mixture between proteins, neurons and your synapses. I think we have a neuro-scientist on NSG somewhere who can probably go into real detail as to the cellular why.

You see someone use a pen, you try to use the pen...eventual you learn how to properly use the pen; your brain stores that knowledge.

Learned behavior, monkey see and monkey learns.
Last edited by Iuuvic on Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Soudhamini » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:30 am

Georgism wrote:By discovering stuff innit

I know water. It has two hydrogens and an oxygen in it. So, I cannot expand my knowledge on water beyond that point!

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Postby Iuuvic » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:31 am

Soudhamini wrote:
Georgism wrote:By discovering stuff innit

I know water. It has two hydrogens and an oxygen in it. So, I cannot expand my knowledge on water beyond that point!



You can discover the properties of water. Effects of heat, cold. The effects it has on other substances...ETC.
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Georgism
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Postby Georgism » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:33 am

Soudhamini wrote:
Georgism wrote:By discovering stuff innit

I know water. It has two hydrogens and an oxygen in it. So, I cannot expand my knowledge on water beyond that point!

Yeah you can. You can discover that it feels wet, or that beyond a certain temperature it turns into a gas, or that it tastes sort of plain, or that it's generally safer to consume than molten steel, or that if you sit in it too long you begin to turn sort of shrivelly, etc.
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Soudhamini
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Postby Soudhamini » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:33 am

Iuuvic wrote:Well than you need to break down such a broad description as 'knowledge'.

****Semantic Memory stores knowledge of the 'external world'****

The process of memory storage accures on the cellular level, a mixture between proteins, neurons and your synapses. I think we have a neuro-scientist on NSG somewhere who can probably go into real detail as to the cellular why.

You see someone use a pen, you try to use the pen...eventual you learn how to properly use the pen; your brain stores that knowledge.

Learned behavior, monkey see and monkey learns.

They are all the mechanism of retaining the knowledge and applying it.
My question is how to expand it.

Can a cell understand that I type?
If so, then a cat should be able to read the books written by human? Isn't it?

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Postby Tubbsalot » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:34 am

Take a hint guys, this is a troll thread.

Hey, human knowledge guy, any relation to Things Can Be Explained Because They Are Explainable guy?
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Conservita Victoria
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Postby Conservita Victoria » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:34 am

Soudhamini wrote:
Gaiso wrote:Do you mean the internal mechanism that allows an individual person to learn, or the method by which humanity as a whole learns?

I want to know the exact workable mechanism, not the personal opinion!


As far as we know, there is no single, definite working mechanism. Rather, it is more of an eclectic mix of different mechanism that would take in the information, process it and bring it back from the memory banks of the mind.

For instance, you have Craik and Tulvings study on the workings on memory led to Craik and Lockharts Levels of Processing model of memory in that the amount of processing the mind does to take in the memory, the higher the chance it would stay.

Learning is done primarily through Bandura's Social Learning Theory of Attention, Retention, Motivation and Reproduction. That is, the child will see a role model and see their behaviour. They would then retain the information at varying levels. For instance, a little girl would retain information from another, older female than a male because they have the same sex and therefore the little girl would think that is how they should behave. Essentially, that is the motivation side as they would be more motivated to reproduce female behaviour due to society's influences in which the child learns. This would be done via Vicarious Learning in that they would observe, or experience, consequences of certain behaviour. For instance, if the little girl was to run around and fight and do general boy stuff, she would more than likely be encouraged not to undertake boy like behaviour and be more feminine.

However, there is a strong argument for genetics which, in certain cases such as the case of David Reimer: Ablatio Penis (Money) where his penis was heavily mutilated in a circumcision accident with, Gods only knows why, a hot wire. :blink: (I can tell you now, the number of men in my Psych class who flinched was rather large). John Money considered this accident a perfect time to test learning and so he set out to turn the boy into a girl via learning. Unfortunately, this failed and David committed suicide a few years after he had a transgender operation to return him back to a male. Therefore, the genetics aspect cannot be missed in learning.

Evidently there is no definite process in the mind that would encourage learning. It is more the outside influences that would ultimately influence how we would learn. For example, a poor child would have less knowledge (not necessarily) because the parents would be unable to afford as many educational objects than say an upper-middle class family. (Again, I am not saying this is a fact as there are many exceptions to the rule) The child was a product of outside influence and, if he was born into a richer family, he may become highly educated. Of course, the opposite could happen, who knows!

I admire you wish to find a definitive process in our mind but I must say that it is a product of many things. Some we don't even fully understand.
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Soudhamini
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Postby Soudhamini » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:37 am

Georgism wrote:
Soudhamini wrote:I know water. It has two hydrogens and an oxygen in it. So, I cannot expand my knowledge on water beyond that point!

Yeah you can. You can discover that it feels wet, or that beyond a certain temperature it turns into a gas, or that it tastes sort of plain, or that it's generally safer to consume than molten steel, or that if you sit in it too long you begin to turn sort of shrivelly, etc.

You mean to say that I have to experiment the water. Okay. Can I experiment the Sun? How can I expand the knowledge on Sun?

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Georgism
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Postby Georgism » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:38 am

Soudhamini wrote:
Iuuvic wrote:Well than you need to break down such a broad description as 'knowledge'.

****Semantic Memory stores knowledge of the 'external world'****

The process of memory storage accures on the cellular level, a mixture between proteins, neurons and your synapses. I think we have a neuro-scientist on NSG somewhere who can probably go into real detail as to the cellular why.

You see someone use a pen, you try to use the pen...eventual you learn how to properly use the pen; your brain stores that knowledge.

Learned behavior, monkey see and monkey learns.

They are all the mechanism of retaining the knowledge and applying it.
My question is how to expand it.

Can a cell understand that I type?
If so, then a cat should be able to read the books written by human? Isn't it?

No because cats are stupid.
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Iuuvic
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Postby Iuuvic » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:40 am

Soudhamini wrote:
Iuuvic wrote:Well than you need to break down such a broad description as 'knowledge'.

****Semantic Memory stores knowledge of the 'external world'****

The process of memory storage accures on the cellular level, a mixture between proteins, neurons and your synapses. I think we have a neuro-scientist on NSG somewhere who can probably go into real detail as to the cellular why.

You see someone use a pen, you try to use the pen...eventual you learn how to properly use the pen; your brain stores that knowledge.

Learned behavior, monkey see and monkey learns.

They are all the mechanism of retaining the knowledge and applying it.
My question is how to expand it.

Can a cell understand that I type?
If so, then a cat should be able to read the books written by human? Isn't it?



-_- Cats have brains that are a bit less...advanced. Cats can learn, with enough training perhaps even learn the meaning of simple written words.

Humans 'learn' through experiences, Even reading a book is an experience, I hate to be so broad in the definition but there it is.
You read/do/see something and retain the information gained. Actually you are in the process of learning right now, you asked a question and are reading the responses. My answers may not be what you are looking for but you are 'learning' my views on the matter. That's right, I'm in your head now.
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Soudhamini
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Postby Soudhamini » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:40 am

Iuuvic wrote:
Soudhamini wrote:I know water. It has two hydrogens and an oxygen in it. So, I cannot expand my knowledge on water beyond that point!



You can discover the properties of water. Effects of heat, cold. The effects it has on other substances...ETC.

Do the properties of water expand? But, our knowledge on water expands. How?

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Georgism
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Postby Georgism » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:43 am

Soudhamini wrote:
Georgism wrote:Yeah you can. You can discover that it feels wet, or that beyond a certain temperature it turns into a gas, or that it tastes sort of plain, or that it's generally safer to consume than molten steel, or that if you sit in it too long you begin to turn sort of shrivelly, etc.

You mean to say that I have to experiment the water. Okay. Can I experiment the Sun? How can I expand the knowledge on Sun?

Scientists have expanded the Human race's knowledge of the sun (and other objects in space that we've never physically reached) by a mix of observation and finding out the properties that things on Earth have & modelling stuff around it.

As far as I can tell. I mean, we can tell that the sun is hot because it has an obvious effect on our quality of life here on Earth. We can also tell that the temperature in the sun's core is [x] degrees because some very clever people used models to calculate it for us.
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Postby The Great Watchers » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:43 am

Georgism wrote:
Soudhamini wrote:They are all the mechanism of retaining the knowledge and applying it.
My question is how to expand it.

Can a cell understand that I type?
If so, then a cat should be able to read the books written by human? Isn't it?

No because cats are stupid.

I have to agree with Georgism. Cats are dumb. Dogs are smarter.
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Postby Iuuvic » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:43 am

Soudhamini wrote:
Iuuvic wrote:

You can discover the properties of water. Effects of heat, cold. The effects it has on other substances...ETC.

Do the properties of water expand? But, our knowledge on water expands. How?



Rephrase please. Don't understand what you are asking.
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Conservita Victoria
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Postby Conservita Victoria » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:43 am

Soudhamini wrote:
Iuuvic wrote:

You can discover the properties of water. Effects of heat, cold. The effects it has on other substances...ETC.

Do the properties of water expand? But, our knowledge on water expands. How?


Properties, no because the properties are a fixed thing.

Knowledge, yes because it is our human nature to discover something new and the brain constantly changes itself and process the information we have so that we can propose theories, test them and hopefully find new things about water, and, the world.
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Postby Soudhamini » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:44 am

Conservita Victoria wrote:
Soudhamini wrote:I want to know the exact workable mechanism, not the personal opinion!


As far as we know, there is no single, definite working mechanism. Rather, it is more of an eclectic mix of different mechanism that would take in the information, process it and bring it back from the memory banks of the mind.

For instance, you have Craik and Tulvings study on the workings on memory led to Craik and Lockharts Levels of Processing model of memory in that the amount of processing the mind does to take in the memory, the higher the chance it would stay.

Learning is done primarily through Bandura's Social Learning Theory of Attention, Retention, Motivation and Reproduction. That is, the child will see a role model and see their behaviour. They would then retain the information at varying levels. For instance, a little girl would retain information from another, older female than a male because they have the same sex and therefore the little girl would think that is how they should behave. Essentially, that is the motivation side as they would be more motivated to reproduce female behaviour due to society's influences in which the child learns. This would be done via Vicarious Learning in that they would observe, or experience, consequences of certain behaviour. For instance, if the little girl was to run around and fight and do general boy stuff, she would more than likely be encouraged not to undertake boy like behaviour and be more feminine.

However, there is a strong argument for genetics which, in certain cases such as the case of David Reimer: Ablatio Penis (Money) where his penis was heavily mutilated in a circumcision accident with, Gods only knows why, a hot wire. :blink: (I can tell you now, the number of men in my Psych class who flinched was rather large). John Money considered this accident a perfect time to test learning and so he set out to turn the boy into a girl via learning. Unfortunately, this failed and David committed suicide a few years after he had a transgender operation to return him back to a male. Therefore, the genetics aspect cannot be missed in learning.

Evidently there is no definite process in the mind that would encourage learning. It is more the outside influences that would ultimately influence how we would learn. For example, a poor child would have less knowledge (not necessarily) because the parents would be unable to afford as many educational objects than say an upper-middle class family. (Again, I am not saying this is a fact as there are many exceptions to the rule) The child was a product of outside influence and, if he was born into a richer family, he may become highly educated. Of course, the opposite could happen, who knows!

I admire you wish to find a definitive process in our mind but I must say that it is a product of many things. Some we don't even fully understand.

The whole stuff is about inheritance [transmission from one generation to next generation}. Is transmission of knowledge = expansion of knowledge?

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Postby Soudhamini » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:45 am

Conservita Victoria wrote:
Soudhamini wrote:Do the properties of water expand? But, our knowledge on water expands. How?


Properties, no because the properties are a fixed thing.

Knowledge, yes because it is our human nature to discover something new and the brain constantly changes itself and process the information we have so that we can propose theories, test them and hopefully find new things about water, and, the world.

If the properties of water are fixed one, then how can one expand the knowledge on it? The knowledge on whater would also be a fixed one! Isn't it?

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Postby Iuuvic » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:46 am

Soudhamini wrote:
Conservita Victoria wrote:
As far as we know, there is no single, definite working mechanism. Rather, it is more of an eclectic mix of different mechanism that would take in the information, process it and bring it back from the memory banks of the mind.

For instance, you have Craik and Tulvings study on the workings on memory led to Craik and Lockharts Levels of Processing model of memory in that the amount of processing the mind does to take in the memory, the higher the chance it would stay.

Learning is done primarily through Bandura's Social Learning Theory of Attention, Retention, Motivation and Reproduction. That is, the child will see a role model and see their behaviour. They would then retain the information at varying levels. For instance, a little girl would retain information from another, older female than a male because they have the same sex and therefore the little girl would think that is how they should behave. Essentially, that is the motivation side as they would be more motivated to reproduce female behaviour due to society's influences in which the child learns. This would be done via Vicarious Learning in that they would observe, or experience, consequences of certain behaviour. For instance, if the little girl was to run around and fight and do general boy stuff, she would more than likely be encouraged not to undertake boy like behaviour and be more feminine.

However, there is a strong argument for genetics which, in certain cases such as the case of David Reimer: Ablatio Penis (Money) where his penis was heavily mutilated in a circumcision accident with, Gods only knows why, a hot wire. :blink: (I can tell you now, the number of men in my Psych class who flinched was rather large). John Money considered this accident a perfect time to test learning and so he set out to turn the boy into a girl via learning. Unfortunately, this failed and David committed suicide a few years after he had a transgender operation to return him back to a male. Therefore, the genetics aspect cannot be missed in learning.

Evidently there is no definite process in the mind that would encourage learning. It is more the outside influences that would ultimately influence how we would learn. For example, a poor child would have less knowledge (not necessarily) because the parents would be unable to afford as many educational objects than say an upper-middle class family. (Again, I am not saying this is a fact as there are many exceptions to the rule) The child was a product of outside influence and, if he was born into a richer family, he may become highly educated. Of course, the opposite could happen, who knows!

I admire you wish to find a definitive process in our mind but I must say that it is a product of many things. Some we don't even fully understand.

The whole stuff is about inheritance [transmission from one generation to next generation}. Is transmission of knowledge = expansion of knowledge?



You are looking at things far too broadly. There is more than one way to 'expand knowledge'. You are doing it right now!
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Conservita Victoria
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Postby Conservita Victoria » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:46 am

Soudhamini wrote:
Conservita Victoria wrote:
As far as we know, there is no single, definite working mechanism. Rather, it is more of an eclectic mix of different mechanism that would take in the information, process it and bring it back from the memory banks of the mind.

For instance, you have Craik and Tulvings study on the workings on memory led to Craik and Lockharts Levels of Processing model of memory in that the amount of processing the mind does to take in the memory, the higher the chance it would stay.

Learning is done primarily through Bandura's Social Learning Theory of Attention, Retention, Motivation and Reproduction. That is, the child will see a role model and see their behaviour. They would then retain the information at varying levels. For instance, a little girl would retain information from another, older female than a male because they have the same sex and therefore the little girl would think that is how they should behave. Essentially, that is the motivation side as they would be more motivated to reproduce female behaviour due to society's influences in which the child learns. This would be done via Vicarious Learning in that they would observe, or experience, consequences of certain behaviour. For instance, if the little girl was to run around and fight and do general boy stuff, she would more than likely be encouraged not to undertake boy like behaviour and be more feminine.

However, there is a strong argument for genetics which, in certain cases such as the case of David Reimer: Ablatio Penis (Money) where his penis was heavily mutilated in a circumcision accident with, Gods only knows why, a hot wire. :blink: (I can tell you now, the number of men in my Psych class who flinched was rather large). John Money considered this accident a perfect time to test learning and so he set out to turn the boy into a girl via learning. Unfortunately, this failed and David committed suicide a few years after he had a transgender operation to return him back to a male. Therefore, the genetics aspect cannot be missed in learning.

Evidently there is no definite process in the mind that would encourage learning. It is more the outside influences that would ultimately influence how we would learn. For example, a poor child would have less knowledge (not necessarily) because the parents would be unable to afford as many educational objects than say an upper-middle class family. (Again, I am not saying this is a fact as there are many exceptions to the rule) The child was a product of outside influence and, if he was born into a richer family, he may become highly educated. Of course, the opposite could happen, who knows!

I admire you wish to find a definitive process in our mind but I must say that it is a product of many things. Some we don't even fully understand.

The whole stuff is about inheritance [transmission from one generation to next generation}. Is transmission of knowledge = expansion of knowledge?


Theoretically. When you give knowledge to a child they will go off into the world with a sort of head start on that topic. Say, you found that water froze at 0 degrees C. You then tell this to the child and they would have that knowledge so they could go off and not have to rediscover the knowledge again before finding it boils at 100 degrees C.
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