O'Reilly on Amsterdam: lies and statistical ignorance

[Redwulf]

Amsterdam is a shithole.

1.2 homicides per 100000 inhabitants compared to America's 5.6 sounds pretty awful. Ditto with the 2.4 drug related deaths per million to America's 38.

Drug death statistics are garbage, people do that to themselves.

Homicide rate is also pretty much negated when you realize that a majority of those are just shitbags killing shitbags. If the rate went up another 10 people or so it would be even better.

So . . . you're saying Amsterdam has fewer shitbags per million people than America?

[The Atlantian islands]

Actually, that's not fixed. Poor "Dutch" neighborhoods are not the ones notorious in the Netherlands. Those are areas that have large north african immigrant communities....

I don't think I 'm going to believe you without evidence.

Beleive what, that neighborhoods with large immigrant make up are those most notorious in The Netherlands for being "bad neighborhoods"???

Have you never spoken with Dutch people or been to Holland? This is common knowledge.

[Maurepas]

Actually, that's not fixed. Poor "Dutch" neighborhoods are not the ones notorious in the Netherlands. Those are areas that have large north african immigrant communities....

I don't think I 'm going to believe you without evidence.

Beleive what, that neighborhoods with large immigrant make up are those most notorious in The Netherlands for being "bad neighborhoods"???

Have you never spoken with Dutch people or been to Holland? This is common knowledge.

Makes sense to me, not that they would actually be bad neighborhoods, but that the Dutch would consider them as such...North African culture would obviously be vastly different than the Dutch one...

We have the same thing over here, you tend to avoid the Hispanic areas, as they are considered the "bad part of town"...

[The Atlantian islands]

Just because the infrastructure looks ok, doesn't mean it really isn't that bad. Those areas most unsafe in Holland are usually muslim, North Africa, immigrant ghettos where it can be very, very unsafe to go if you are not, for example Moroccan or so.

And yet the overall rate of murders is three times lower than in the US (assuming your statements are correct).

My statement is correct and so is yours. I never argued otherwise? ? ? But if you break that down into demographics, the areas where the most crime (and indeed murders) are in The Netherlands tend to be immigrant neighborhoods with many Muslims, while the U.S., they tend to be the more predominetly Black neighborhoods.

There is a disporportinate amount of crime in the black community in America that brings the whole U.S. down when looking at national statistics and the same can be said of the Muslim, North Africa communities in Holland when looking at their national statistics.

[Dakini]

Just because the infrastructure looks ok, doesn't mean it really isn't that bad. Those areas most unsafe in Holland are usually muslim, North Africa, immigrant ghettos where it can be very, very unsafe to go if you are not, for example Moroccan or so.

And yet the overall rate of murders is three times lower than in the US (assuming your statements are correct).

My statement is correct and so is yours. I never argued otherwise? ? ? But if you break that down into demographics, the areas where the most crime (and indeed murders) are in The Netherlands tend to be immigrant neighborhoods with many Muslims, while the U.S., they tend to be the more predominetly Black neighborhoods.

There is a disporportinate amount of crime in the black community in America that brings the whole U.S. down when looking at national statistics and the same can be said of the Muslim, North Africa communities in Holland when looking at their national statistics.

The issue is probably poverty more than anything. It's not just black neighbourhoods, it's poor neighbourhoods. Just like anywhere.

[The Atlantian islands]

Makes sense to me, not that they would actually be bad neighborhoods, but that the Dutch would consider them as such...North African culture would obviously be vastly different than the Dutch one...

We have the same thing over here, you tend to avoid the Hispanic areas, as they are considered the "bad part of town"...

Bad as in more crime, violence, illegal drug trade mixed with worse infrastructure, more poverty and less education.

And I'd say that would be the Black areas, not Hispanic ones. In Miami, for example, Little Havana is a fun touristy part of the city, while nobody sane ventures into the predominately (American) Black areas of Miami.

The areas with Blacks from the islands, while still more poor and crime-ridden than the White neighborhoods, are not anywhere near as bad as the predominately American black neighborhoods. And often, in Miami, Island-Blacks and American Blacks don't get along because the Island-Blacks are no different from any other immigrant group in that they came to this country to better their lives and often have no problem working for white people, while the American Blacks, having not immigrated here, are not in this country for the purpose of bettering their lives and often dislike working for "the man". Of course people are individuals and there are many exceptions, but in terms of the cultures down here, this holds true.

[The Atlantian islands]

The issue is probably poverty more than anything. It's not just black neighbourhoods, it's poor neighbourhoods. Just like anywhere.

But see, were that the case then the white trailer parks wouldn't be as notorious and violent as the black ghettos, but they are. They really are.

Compare the shittiest white neighborhoods with some black neighborhoods in Miami, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Detroit and you'll see that the Black ones are much more dangerous and violent.

[Dakini]

The issue is probably poverty more than anything. It's not just black neighbourhoods, it's poor neighbourhoods. Just like anywhere.

But see, were that the case then the white trailer parks wouldn't be as notorious and violent as the black ghettos, but they are. They really are.

Compare the shittiest white neighborhoods with some black neighborhoods in Miami, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Detroit and you'll see that the Black ones are much more dangerous and violent.

No racism in my thread, please. This is about Bill O'Reilly and his inability to understand statistics and admit when he is wrong about something (in this case, Amsterdam).

[Parthenon]

1.2 homicides per 100000 inhabitants compared to America's 5.6 sounds pretty awful. Ditto with the 2.4 drug related deaths per million to America's 38.

Drug death statistics are garbage, people do that to themselves.

Homicide rate is also pretty much negated when you realize that a majority of those are just shitbags killing shitbags. If the rate went up another 10 people or so it would be even better.

So . . . you're saying Amsterdam has fewer shitbags per million people than America?

Not at all, merely that their shitbags aren't as brave as ours.

[The Atlantian islands]

No racism in my thread, please.

That's just the reality of the situation. Poverty and violence in America (as well as in Europe) are layed out on racial and ethnic lines. Calling it "racism" to shove it under the rug doesn't acomplish anything.

This is about Bill O'Reilly and his inability to understand statistics and admit when he is wrong about something (in this case, Amsterdam).

Bill O'Reilly is a toolbag and a troll who thinks that talker louder = winning a debate. But you said that it is about poverty when I am showing you that while, it does have to do with poverty, it also has to do with different ethnic groups, religions, cultures and races, depending on the case in question. Just because it makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean it isn't the truth.

[Maurepas]

Makes sense to me, not that they would actually be bad neighborhoods, but that the Dutch would consider them as such...North African culture would obviously be vastly different than the Dutch one...

We have the same thing over here, you tend to avoid the Hispanic areas, as they are considered the "bad part of town"...

Bad as in more crime, violence, illegal drug trade mixed with worse infrastructure, more poverty and less education.

And I'd say that would be the Black areas, not Hispanic ones. In Miami, for example, Little Havana is a fun touristy part of the city, while nobody sane ventures into the predominately (American) Black areas of Miami.

The areas with Blacks from the islands, while still more poor and crime-ridden than the White neighborhoods, are not anywhere near as bad as the predominately American black neighborhoods. And often, in Miami, Island-Blacks and American Blacks don't get along because the Island-Blacks are no different from any other immigrant group in that they came to this country to better their lives and often have no problem working for white people, while the American Blacks, having not immigrated here, are not in this country for the purpose of bettering their lives and often dislike working for "the man". Of course people are individuals and there are many exceptions, but in terms of the cultures down here, this holds true.

That may be where you live, down here the black and white neighborhoods are the same thing, have been for some time, to find an area where they are separated, you have to go out into the woods...

the blacks left those parts a long time ago, to be replaced with Hispanics and Asians, mostly Vietnamese and Mexicans...

Id say the crime rates arent any higher or lower than the white portions in the sticks, and they are both regularly avoided...

Just my observation from my own locale...

[Psychotic Mongooses]

The issue is probably poverty more than anything. It's not just black neighbourhoods, it's poor neighbourhoods. Just like anywhere.

But see, were that the case then the white trailer parks wouldn't be as notorious and violent as the black ghettos, but they are. They really are.

Compare the shittiest white neighborhoods with some black neighborhoods in Miami, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Detroit and you'll see that the Black ones are much more dangerous and violent.

Source saying that race is the underlying factor?

[Maurepas]

The issue is probably poverty more than anything. It's not just black neighbourhoods, it's poor neighbourhoods. Just like anywhere.

But see, were that the case then the white trailer parks wouldn't be as notorious and violent as the black ghettos, but they are. They really are.

Compare the shittiest white neighborhoods with some black neighborhoods in Miami, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Detroit and you'll see that the Black ones are much more dangerous and violent.

Source saying that race is the underlying factor?

Compare them in Biloxi, Lafayette, Mobile and Pensacola, you'll see they are virtually identical...

[Dakini]

No racism in my thread, please.

That's just the reality of the situation. Poverty and violence in America (as well as in Europe) are layed out on racial and ethnic lines. Calling it "racism" to shove it under the rug doesn't acomplish anything.

It is drifting off-topic and I don't really want to open that can of worms here because that's all it will be about.

This is about Bill O'Reilly and his inability to understand statistics and admit when he is wrong about something (in this case, Amsterdam).

Bill O'Reilly is a toolbag and a troll who thinks that talker louder = winning a debate. But you said that it is about poverty when I am showing you that while, it does have to do with poverty, it also has to do with different ethnic groups, religions, cultures and races, depending on the case in question. Just because it makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean it isn't the truth.

I'm not really in the mood to start looking up rebuttals for this right now and also don't want to turn the thread into a giant race thing because this isn't how it started and it's really something that should be off on its own topic if you want to discuss it since it is significantly more involved. I posited that it might be a poverty thing because this is also an underlying theme in bad neighbourhoods, but I'd rather avoid an involved discussion on this subject here.

So to change the subject... Do you think that O'Reilly should be allowed to tell lies, even after being shown wrong on his own show without any sort of punishment? Should journalism be held to higher standards than they currently are (for instance)?

[Gravlen]

Actually, that's not fixed. Poor "Dutch" neighborhoods are not the ones notorious in the Netherlands. Those are areas that have large north african immigrant communities....

I don't think I 'm going to believe you without evidence.

Beleive what, that neighborhoods with large immigrant make up are those most notorious in The Netherlands for being "bad neighborhoods"???

Have you never spoken with Dutch people or been to Holland? This is common knowledge.

Have you noticed how often so-called "common knowledge" is wrong?

On a related note, people should watch QI.

[Dakini]

On a related note, people should watch QI.

What's QI?

[Farnhamia]

On a related note, people should watch QI.

What's QI?

A dyslectic's IQ?

[Cameroi]

i don't think this o'rly charicter deserves anywhere near as much publicity he's getting by how often he's mentioned on here.

[Gopferdammi]

On a related note, people should watch QI.

What's QI?

A dyslectic's IQ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QI

[Non Aligned States]

I'd very much like some kind of Dutch Tourist Board to sue O'Reilly for slander of libel or some such. If he's going to make factual claims about Amsterdam then I don't think I'm alone in thinking it'd be fun to make him prove it or apologise for his ignorance.

He'll make the defense that "he's an entertainer"

[Gelgisith]

Unfortunately, Amsterdam does have a LOT of crime, and it has some really very nasty and seedy areas, I've seen them myself.

Certainly - there is a lot of room for improvement.
However, Amsterdam is still miles above US cities where safety, quality of life etc are concerned. Which some Foxy people seem to forget

For reference, these are some pictures of the "Kolenkitbuurt" - the worst neighbourhood in the whole Netherlands according to a leaked government list - located in Amsterdam. Behold - this is the worst ghetto of the Netherlands and Amsterdam:

Waitwaitwait, are you telling me Kanaleneiland is no longer the worst neighbourhood of the Netherlands?

You can virtually walk around there using google maps. Look for "Burgemeester de Vlugtlaan, Amsterdam"

Just because the infrastructure looks ok, doesn't mean it really isn't that bad. Those areas most unsafe in Holland are usually muslim, North Africa, immigrant ghettos where it can be very, very unsafe to go if you are not, for example Moroccan or so.

Nonsense, there are no ghettos, only areas where immigrants are the largest group. Second, they are only unsafe if you act like an idiot, but that goes for white 'ghettos', too. Basically, economic status is in larger correspondence with crime than the ethnic make up of the neighbourhood. That Geert screaches otherwise doesn't make it true. And what does he know anyway? He's from the rich side of a town in Limburg.

[Greed and Death]

hmm. Well we need to resolve this the Irish way.
O'Reilly and a person chosen at random from Amsterdam need to duke it out, after drinking a bottle of whiskey.

[Ifreann]

hmm. Well we need to resolve this the Irish way.
O'Reilly and a person chosen at random from Amsterdam need to duke it out, after drinking a bottle of whiskey.

Only one bottle? Well, I suppose O'Reilly is getting on in years.....

[Gelgisith]

I don't think I 'm going to believe you without evidence.

Beleive what, that neighborhoods with large immigrant make up are those most notorious in The Netherlands for being "bad neighborhoods"???

Have you never spoken with Dutch people or been to Holland? This is common knowledge.

I live there. In one of those neighbourhoods. Hardly a problem, and certainly none i wouldn't have had from skinheads, too.

Have you noticed how often so-called "common knowledge" is wrong?

On a related note, people should watch QI.

I love QI, especially when they innuendo on the hosts sexual preference. Hilarious!

[Ifreann]

Have you noticed how often so-called "common knowledge" is wrong?

On a related note, people should watch QI.

I love QI, especially when they innuendo on the hosts sexual preference. Hilarious!

Thou shalt not question Stephen Fry. Jokes about his fondness for the cock are acceptable.