How Would a System Breakdown Happen?

[Conserative Morality]

Hyperbole much?

If a Emp were to detonate and completely collapse America's crutch (technology) today, I would give the US three days before mass rioting at Wall Marts/Super Saves across the country brings the country to a stand still.

I mean hell, look at New O ofter Katrina and the zoo that turned into.

Emp's don't just fry in use electronics, but the replacements in storage along with the fancy workshops that would produce the replacements. Which is a fact that you seem to conveniently be forgetting.

Without outside help, you would have to basically start from scratch again.

Replacement parts do not exist, obviously. Even if they did, they're always hooked up to a power source instead of laying in warehouses.

[Caninope]

It would be extremely difficult for a US breakdown to happen. We have a great deal of unity in culture, government stability, multiple levels of government each with the ability to more or less run on it's own, etc.

I'm not saying it'd be impossible... But it'd be damn difficult.

Americans are not unified, You can easily observe this in how they constantly insult each other, And hate each other, Aswell as kill each other. Also, This is a multiculturalist society, Americans are far too idiotic to hold a single culture, And race.

I insult my sister, and have disliked her at times.

Does that mean that we're not family? Besides, I do find your trolling pathetic.

[Caninope]

I'm pretty sure that EMP blasts not only disable all current electronics... but also all future electronics... and even bronze age, iron age, medieval, and renaissance level technology. And that's why we'd be in the stone age.

Hyperbole much?

If a Emp were to detonate and completely collapse America's crutch (technology) today, I would give the US three days before mass rioting at Wall Marts/Super Saves across the country brings the country to a stand still.

I mean hell, look at New O ofter Katrina and the zoo that turned into.

Emp's don't just fry in use electronics, but the replacements in storage along with the fancy workshops that would produce the replacements. Which is a fact that you seem to conveniently be forgetting.

Without outside help, you would have to basically start from scratch again.

The fact that you're conveniently forgetting is that EMP'ing the US would be economic suicide for any nation that's actually able to do so.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Hyperbole much?

If a Emp were to detonate and completely collapse America's crutch (technology) today, I would give the US three days before mass rioting at Wall Marts/Super Saves across the country brings the country to a stand still.

I mean hell, look at New O ofter Katrina and the zoo that turned into.

Emp's don't just fry in use electronics, but the replacements in storage along with the fancy workshops that would produce the replacements. Which is a fact that you seem to conveniently be forgetting.

Without outside help, you would have to basically start from scratch again.

Replacement parts do not exist, obviously. Even if they did, they're always hooked up to a power source instead of laying in warehouses.

[Vortiaganica]

Hyperbole much?

If a Emp were to detonate and completely collapse America's crutch (technology) today, I would give the US three days before mass rioting at Wall Marts/Super Saves across the country brings the country to a stand still.

I mean hell, look at New O ofter Katrina and the zoo that turned into.

Emp's don't just fry in use electronics, but the replacements in storage along with the fancy workshops that would produce the replacements. Which is a fact that you seem to conveniently be forgetting.

Without outside help, you would have to basically start from scratch again.

Replacement parts do not exist, obviously. Even if they did, they're always hooked up to a power source instead of laying in warehouses.

How would you transport those replacement parts?

If an airplane is involved anywhere there, then you screwed.

If a truck is involved? That depends whether the fuel stations have replacement parts for their electronic pumps etc.

[Conserative Morality]

The fact that you're conveniently forgetting is that EMP'ing the US would be economic suicide for any nation that's actually able to do so.

Or that EMPs, IIRC, cause electrical surges... Which means that unhooked equipment and replacement parts will be perfectly fine.

It'd be a huge expense, sure, but not "Oh no we'll never recover" bad.

[Andaluciae]

It Would require a really, really violent systemic shock--multiple nuclear explosions in several major population centers, for instance. HIV or Ebola goes airborne, with infection levels similar rates similar to influenza. Yellowstone erupts. India, Pakistan and/or China go for a nuclear slugfest. Aliens, invading, communicating, visiting, dead or otherwise, Donald Trump gets elected President. You know, all of the Roland Emmerich sort of things.

The thing is, modern societies aren't particularly vulnerable to collapse. They have been selected in a somewhat Darwinian fashion for their durability. You need a real serious external shock. The US is extensively hardened against catastrophe because of our dispersed government, our national size and our cultural flexibility. Europe is so interconnected that the relationships across borders make her nearly impervious. Japan and Russia have a kind of "woe is me" mindset that makes them very culturally resilient. The Arab World is capable of rebounding.

I'd be worried about China and India, but for a variety.of reasons.

[Conserative Morality]

How would you transport those replacement parts?

If an airplane is involved anywhere there, then you screwed.

If a truck is involved? That depends whether the fuel stations have replacement parts for their electronic pumps etc.

Because trucks will not obviously have any gas in them etc.

[Vortiaganica]

The fact that you're conveniently forgetting is that EMP'ing the US would be economic suicide for any nation that's actually able to do so.

Or that EMPs, IIRC, cause electrical surges... Which means that unhooked equipment and replacement parts will be perfectly fine.

It'd be a huge expense, sure, but not "Oh no we'll never recover" bad.

It depends.

You're forgetting the human element. I'd wager significant moneys that some large proportion of the US political population will overreact and do something unpredictable.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Hyperbole much?

If a Emp were to detonate and completely collapse America's crutch (technology) today, I would give the US three days before mass rioting at Wall Marts/Super Saves across the country brings the country to a stand still.

I mean hell, look at New O ofter Katrina and the zoo that turned into.

Emp's don't just fry in use electronics, but the replacements in storage along with the fancy workshops that would produce the replacements. Which is a fact that you seem to conveniently be forgetting.

Without outside help, you would have to basically start from scratch again.

The fact that you're conveniently forgetting is that EMP'ing the US would be economic suicide for any nation that's actually able to do so.

Who says it has to be a nation? On a side note an asteroid near missing and skipping off the atmosphere would produce the same effect, as would a solar flare.

[Conserative Morality]

It depends.

You're forgetting the human element. I'd wager significant moneys that some large proportion of the US political population will overreact and do something unpredictable.

I predict a curfew, the national guard, and lot of government guns on the streets.

[Caninope]

You sir, have proven how little you know about EMP's. An EMP works by sending out an electric and magnetic pulse of energy which cause voltage overloads. This doesn't mean all electronics are fried, as you have said.

[Kubra]

The abolition of bottle deposits would do it pretty quick.

[Conserative Morality]

You sir, have proven how little you know about EMP's. An EMP works by sending out an electric and magnetic pulse of energy which cause voltage overloads. This doesn't mean all electronics are fried, as you have said.

No, EMPS are magic. They destroy electronics that are not hooked up FOREVER.

[Paddy O Fernature]

It depends.

You're forgetting the human element. I'd wager significant moneys that some large proportion of the US political population will overreact and do something unpredictable.

I predict a curfew, the national guard, and lot of government guns on the streets.

And I predict that when the call goes out, 50-70% of the guard/reserves don't show up due to a varity of reasons such as unable to travel, unable to care past security of their own families, or just don't care.

[Vortiaganica]

How would you transport those replacement parts?

If an airplane is involved anywhere there, then you screwed.

If a truck is involved? That depends whether the fuel stations have replacement parts for their electronic pumps etc.

Because trucks will not obviously have any gas in them etc.

I'm not sure how businesses do it, I'm pretty sure they don't keep trucks with full tanks, especially in colder states, and pump fuel when the truck is leaving.

Also, I'm CERTAIN a full tank will not get a truck that far across the US. Some highways would be out of commission until fuel was widely available again.

Without electricity, foreign goods via air would not be available (Besides aircraft, a large amount of complex electronics are needed on ground), and for at least a month or two, you wouldn't be able to replace that by sea (As even when ships start to leave port with excess goods, you still have to wait for them to get there).

Although my heart really isn't in this debate, so I'll leave it to someone who cares.

[Caninope]

Who says it has to be a nation? On a side note an asteroid near missing and skipping off the atmosphere would produce the same effect, as would a solar flare.

1. I want a source on the asteroid. I also don't understand how you "skip" of the atmosphere. If you're the expert you have presented yourself as, explain that.
2. A solar flare would produce an E3 EMP. That alone wouldn't fry everything. That leads currents and can destroy transformers, but E1 EMP is what would knock out communications.

[Der Teutoniker]

Without outside help, you would have to basically start from scratch again.

Even presuming we don't get any help, we're still not starting from "scratch" in the grand scheme of things. We still retain the knowledge to build electronic devices. Yes a lot of shit would suck for a while, but I'm sure that the government has a contingency plan considering that an EMP attack is quite possible, and extremely devastating.

And yes, I used a hyperbole. The same hyperbole you used - way to criticize me, for doing in jest of what you did. Classy.

[Conserative Morality]

I'm not sure how businesses do it, I'm pretty sure they don't keep trucks with full tanks, especially in colder states, and pump fuel when the truck is leaving.

Also, I'm CERTAIN a full tank will not get a truck that far across the US. Some highways would be out of commission until fuel was widely available again.

Some highways? Sure. For a time. Still not a complete and irreparable "Oh noez time to scratch everything" disaster.

Without electricity, foreign goods via air would not be available (Besides aircraft, a large amount of complex electronics are needed on ground), and for at least a month or two, you wouldn't be able to replace that by sea (As even when ships start to leave port with excess goods, you still have to wait for them to get there).

Lot of replacement parts around. We aren't looking at "Produced in China, shipped to the US", we're looking at "Produced in China, already shipped to the US and sitting around in a warehouse or storage room"

[Paddy O Fernature]

You sir, have proven how little you know about EMP's. An EMP works by sending out an electric and magnetic pulse of energy which cause voltage overloads. This doesn't mean all electronics are fried, as you have said.

Yes, I know nothing about them.. I'm just a guy on the internet with nothing better to do then talk about shit I don't know.

Oh wait, that's you and several other borderline trolls on this topic.

Some people actually have done extensive studies on this for various reasons. Myself, a college paper for my military science degree.

I would go into detail, but I'm willing to bet cold hard cash that you would just sit there and go "nuh uh!" and play the part of the everlasting interweb naysayer, so I will not even bother.

[Meryuma]

The gunpowder treason part two?

Gunpowder Plot: America.

Meryuma: "Well, I just hope these hyperboles don't...

*puts on sunglasses*

blow out of proportions."

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I'm probably sigging this.

[Der Teutoniker]

And I predict that when the call goes out, 50-70% of the guard/reserves don't show up due to a varity of reasons such as unable to travel, unable to care past security of their own families, or just don't care.

Doubtful. In such a tragic situation, I'm sure the reporting rate would be pretty high. Anyone who can think would know that government is still around, simply because the lights go out doesn't mean going AWOL is a good idea.

[Conserative Morality]

And I predict that when the call goes out, 50-70% of the guard/reserves don't show up due to a varity of reasons such as unable to travel, unable to care past security of their own families, or just don't care.

Ha. Only one of those excuses holds any sort of validity.

[Der Teutoniker]

Ha. Only one of those excuses holds any sort of validity.

Almost anyone could get to their nearest base/armory. It's not like they're that far apart.

[Winter Brault]

1)The economy turns for the worst when oil production declines
2)America no longer has enough cash so to keep us afloat China buys more of out treasury bonds. They know without us they're toast
3)China maxes out and opens up to global market more than ever
4)China, no longer needing the U.S. because of all its new clients sells out bonds and sends us spiraling down even further
5)An alternative fuel has been found but is extremely expensive and only the first world countries can afford it
6)America can no longer sustain itself and crashes completely
7)Terrorists release biological weaponry in China and without the U.S. to stop it terror rages
8 )Global temperatures continue to rise and famines begin to break out across the world
9)A few countries remain standing but the world economy is like a heavy weight dragging them down
10)Many people give up and decide to forget about the government and start a new life in the ashes of the poor, hot, lonely world