God.

[Unhealthy2]

Read the Bible.
Adam and Eve ate a fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

And why does this force god to make it so that everyone is incapable of choosing to not sin?

[Unhealthy2]

Unless God is this set morality, rather than the arbitrator of it.

God is not a morality. Moralities don't forgive sins, create universes, etc..

You still haven't responded to this. It's still the case that morality is either independent of god, and thus can exist without him, or that morality is circularly defined as tied to god, and therefore lacking in any real content whatsoever.

[Bottle]

Read the Bible.
Adam and Eve ate a fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

So why didn't God just fix the next generations?
By the way, I did read the Old Testament. I was raised Jewish.

Because, unlike car manufacturers or the guys who make lightbulbs, God is incapable of performing a recall of defective product.

[Unified America-Canada]

Read the Bible.
Adam and Eve ate a fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

So why didn't God just fix the next generations?
By the way, I did read the Old Testament. I was raised Jewish.

If he fixed the generations there really would'nt be a Jesus Christ. Therefore if you mess up and do something wrong their is no redemption.

[Jasonovia]

So in other words your morality is arbitrarily based on society while mine is based on (if true) a concrete, immutable existence outside of myself.

Except that you don't. You come to moral conclusions and then fool yourself into believing that god agrees exactly with whatever set of convictions you've come up with.

Except I've changed my moral conclusions to match God's before. Why would I have to ever do that if God agrees with everything I think is right? And if you are correct, a person whose experiences, values, and culture are that are wanton murder and rape are acceptable, his morality is just as acceptable.

[Gaiso]

So why didn't God just fix the next generations?
By the way, I did read the Old Testament. I was raised Jewish.

If he fixed the generations there really would'nt be a Jesus Christ. Therefore if you mess up and do something wrong their is no redemption.

Isn't God loving and forgiving?

[The Murtunian Tribes]

So why didn't God just fix the next generations?
By the way, I did read the Old Testament. I was raised Jewish.

If he fixed the generations there really would'nt be a Jesus Christ. Therefore if you mess up and do something wrong their is no redemption.

But if he fixed the next generations, it wouldn't be in our nature to sin ( your words, not mine) therefore rendering the need for redemption moot.

[Unhealthy2]

Because, unlike car manufacturers or the guys who make lightbulbs, God is incapable of performing a recall of defective product.

Isn't it great how god is all-powerful when it comes to creating free agents and magicking up material out of nothing, but when it comes to doing relatively simple things in comparison, you know, fixing the system to be more reasonable, learning to forgive sins on his own without the bizarrely unnecessary act of sacrificing himself to himself, he's unusually impotent and actually weaker than even a single person?

[Unified America-Canada]

If he fixed the generations there really would'nt be a Jesus Christ. Therefore if you mess up and do something wrong their is no redemption.

Isn't God loving and forgiving?

That is why he put Jesus Christ on earth?

[Unhealthy2]

Except I've changed my moral conclusions to match God's before. Why would I have to ever do that if God agrees with everything I think is right? And if you are correct, a person whose experiences, values, and culture are that are wanton murder and rape are acceptable, his morality is just as acceptable.

No, his morality is not as acceptable. He's simply incorrect about what is right.

It isn't such an example at all, but rather just an example of you changing your mind and saying god agrees with the change, or it's you deciding to change your mind because you become convinced that some book contains ultimate morals.

[Gaiso]

Isn't God loving and forgiving?

That is why he put Jesus Christ on earth?

Then why are we still capable of sin? And why didn't God fix us with Noah's ark (which is just one of many problems with this story, but I'll save that for later)? Why cant he force us to be good if he is so powerful?

[Unified America-Canada]

Because, unlike car manufacturers or the guys who make lightbulbs, God is incapable of performing a recall of defective product.

Isn't it great how god is all-powerful when it comes to creating free agents and magicking up material out of nothing, but when it comes to doing relatively simple things in comparison, you know, fixing the system to be more reasonable, learning to forgive sins on his own without the bizarrely unnecessary act of sacrificing himself to himself, he's unusually impotent and actually weaker than even a single person?

The Trinity. He did not sacrafice himself.
The Trinity composes of God,The Holy Spirit,Jesus Christ. It is to deep for someone who does not WANT to understand or who is to determined not too.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

Isn't God loving and forgiving?

That is why he put Jesus Christ on earth?

*Sigh* you're arguing in circles. If he hadn't made humanity sinful by nature, why would he need there to be a Jesus in the first place?

[Unhealthy2]

If he fixed the generations there really would'nt be a Jesus Christ. Therefore if you mess up and do something wrong their is no redemption.

If he fixed the generations so that no one wanted to sin, there wouldn't be a need for redemption in the first place.

Also, explain how sacrificing yourself to yourself allows you to redeem others of wrongdoing. That literally makes no sense at all.

[Gaiso]

Isn't it great how god is all-powerful when it comes to creating free agents and magicking up material out of nothing, but when it comes to doing relatively simple things in comparison, you know, fixing the system to be more reasonable, learning to forgive sins on his own without the bizarrely unnecessary act of sacrificing himself to himself, he's unusually impotent and actually weaker than even a single person?

The Trinity. He did not sacrafice himself.
The Trinity composes of God,The Holy Spirit,Jesus Christ. It is to deep for someone who does not WANT to understand or who is to determined not too.

We want to understand though. Saying it is too complicated for us is just a cop out. You know its all bs.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

Isn't it great how god is all-powerful when it comes to creating free agents and magicking up material out of nothing, but when it comes to doing relatively simple things in comparison, you know, fixing the system to be more reasonable, learning to forgive sins on his own without the bizarrely unnecessary act of sacrificing himself to himself, he's unusually impotent and actually weaker than even a single person?

The Trinity. He did not sacrafice himself.
The Trinity composes of God,The Holy Spirit,Jesus Christ. It is to deep for someone who does not WANT to understand or who is to determined not too.

Then by all means, enlighten us as to the difference between composing of God and being God.

[Unified America-Canada]

That is why he put Jesus Christ on earth?

*Sigh* you're arguing in circles. If he hadn't made humanity sinful by nature, why would he need there to be a Jesus in the first place?

You will never understand fully Gods Plan till the end. Can you seriously know the limits of the almighty.

[Jasonovia]

God is not a morality. Moralities don't forgive sins, create universes, etc..

You still haven't responded to this. It's still the case that morality is either independent of god, and thus can exist without him, or that morality is circularly defined as tied to god, and therefore lacking in any real content whatsoever.

I believe I have, several times (not that I've necessarily been clear). "Tied to God" is not the same as "arbitrated by God". God is what He is and can be no other. If God is goodness itself, He is All-Good and couldn't be anything other if He tried. It also means no good exists apart from Him. So take away God, you take away good. You take away good, you take away God.

[Unified America-Canada]

You will never understand fully Gods Plan till the end. Can you seriously know the limits of the almighty.

[Gaiso]

*Sigh* you're arguing in circles. If he hadn't made humanity sinful by nature, why would he need there to be a Jesus in the first place?

You will never understand fully Gods Plan till the end. Can you seriously know the limits of the almighty.

Then why do you seem to act as if you do?

[Unhealthy2]

The Trinity. He did not sacrafice himself.

Yes he did, because Jesus is one of the "faces" or "components" of god, according to your beliefs. He did send a piece of himself, or some aspect of himself, down to die as a sacrifice to himself. Ergo, "sacrificing himself to himself" is a fair summation.

It is to deep for someone who does not WANT to understand or who is to determined not too.

I understand it, apparently better than you do.

[Unified America-Canada]

The Trinity. He did not sacrafice himself.
The Trinity composes of God,The Holy Spirit,Jesus Christ. It is to deep for someone who does not WANT to understand or who is to determined not too.

Then by all means, enlighten us as to the difference between composing of God and being God.

Well I would tell you to ask God but since you never really knew him I do not have time to explain it to narrowminded people who are determined not to understand something to complex for them to comprehend.

[Unhealthy2]

You will never understand fully Gods Plan till the end.

Sometimes the reason why something can't be understood is not do to complexity. Sometimes, no one can understand it because there's nothing to understand, because it doesn't make sense.

Can you seriously know the limits of the almighty.

What do you mean?

[The Murtunian Tribes]

You will never understand fully Gods Plan till the end. Can you seriously know the limits of the almighty.

Then why do you seem to act as if you do?

And now we have come full circle.

How can you claim something that you hardly know enough about.

Now either one of two things will happen. You will realize the logical inconsistencies in your rationale, or we will begin this cycle of ridiculousness again.

[Unhealthy2]

Well I would tell you to ask God but since you never really knew him I do not have time to explain it to narrowminded people who are determined not to understand something to complex for them to comprehend.

How convenient.