God.

[Caecili]

I'm thinking that we might be talking on a different level here. When you say everything happens for a reason, I interpret it as you saying that there's a point to it. Miscommunication, I suppose.

you thought the guy was talking ultimate when he was in fact talking proximate.

Indeed. I know full well why things happen scientifically. I'm not that stupid.

[Keronians]

I'm thinking that we might be talking on a different level here. When you say everything happens for a reason, I interpret it as you saying that there's a point to it. Miscommunication, I suppose.

you thought the guy was talking ultimate when he was in fact talking proximate.

This was something that irritated me when I was younger. Now, I just accept it as a way of life.

"When you add dilute acid to a carbonate, there is effervescence and CO2 is formed."

Why the hell can't you just say "it bubbles", God dammit.

[Unhealthy2]

I'd be interested though it'd take a while (to say the least).

All the ideas for reformulating non-relativistic QM are completely laid out at this point, they just need to be written up.

The formulation is deterministic, realistic (in that superposition of states is seen as real), and has all of its quantities (other than slight weirdness caused by Fourier duals) lining up EXACTLY as one would expect given Newtonian mechanics. I've also mostly laid out the non-relativistic field theory, but its arguments are a little less solid. I'm going to use non-relativistic field theory to push into relativity, QFT, and the standard model. I'm pretty such everything works just fine, and if this is a success, it will be the simplest and most intuitive (and theoretically complete) formulation of quantum theory to date. I'm planning on publishing it rather soon.

[Norstal]

I'd be interested though it'd take a while (to say the least).

All the ideas for reformulating non-relativistic QM are completely laid out at this point, they just need to be written up.

The formulation is deterministic, realistic (in that superposition of states is seen as real), and has all of its quantities (other than slight weirdness caused by Fourier duals) lining up EXACTLY as one would expect given Newtonian mechanics. I've also mostly laid out the non-relativistic field theory, but its arguments are a little less solid. I'm going to use non-relativistic field theory to push into relativity, QFT, and the standard model. I'm pretty such everything works just fine, and if this is a success, it will be the simplest and most intuitive (and theoretically complete) formulation of quantum theory to date. I'm planning on publishing it rather soon.

Man, being a physicist must've ruined the superstitions of life.

Oh wait...I'm driving down the same road too. Shit.

This was something that irritated me when I was younger. Now, I just accept it as a way of life.

"When you add dilute acid to a carbonate, there is effervescence and CO2 is formed."

Why the hell can't you just say "it bubbles", God dammit.

Because that's boring. Do you really love bunnies? Study their eating and mating habits. Do you really love computers? Study how to program software and engineer hardware. Etc. "It's bubbly" might not even translate well to Greek or Chinese.

[Unhealthy2]

Man, being a physicist must've ruined the superstitions of life.

Oh wait...I'm driving down the same road too. Shit.

Meaning, purpose, values, knowledge, pro-causal free will, morality, enjoyment, none of these things are possible in a universe WITHOUT regularity and mechanistic determinism. Far from being a threat to such treasured aspects of life, determinism ENABLES them. It's magic that makes these things impossible and devalues and cheapens all of existence.

[Norstal]

Man, being a physicist must've ruined the superstitions of life.

Oh wait...I'm driving down the same road too. Shit.

Meaning, purpose, values, knowledge, pro-causal free will, morality, enjoyment, none of these things are possible in a universe WITHOUT regularity and mechanistic determinism. Far from being a threat to such treasured aspects of life, determinism ENABLES them. It's magic that makes these things impossible and devalues and cheapens all of existence.

Of course. Magic, while it can bend anything into anything, is ultimately boring. Where's the pattern in that? There really isn't anything to do about superstitious thought. It can even be oppressing. Rather, it's how deterministic nature is that makes it so full of awe.

[Bengera]

Lol well you might think I'm just crazy or a liar but now I think you're an asshole so I guess we're not going to be friends D: This is why I usually don't post anything in these stupid religious threads anymore. All the athiests can do is say how stupid religious people for having no "scientific proof" since the scientific is absolutely infallable and perfect in every way. And BTW I do write down everything I experience like that and I date it.

No one called you stupid. But you did called him an asshole. What does that make you?

Truthful.

[YellowApple]

sorry every thing happens for a reason

Prove it.
Do particles attract each other for a reason?* Do moons orbit planets for a reason?** Does matter change forms in different conditions for a reason?*** No. It just does.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_bonding
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity
*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_matter

Nice try, but they all happen for a reason. You should have learned that in Physics.

[Jasonovia]

Ah, okay so everything depends on it's existence on something that came before it and therefore there must be a termination to this somewhere and that termination is called god.

Is that, in essence, your argument somewhat differently stated?

I hesitate on the "before" part as it equally applies to the current state of existence as to its origins. So if my example were a candle flame, I would ask what enables he flame to exist and what about the air and wax makes it possible and go along that path rather than where did the air and wax come from.

[YellowApple]

No one called you stupid. But you did called him an asshole. What does that make you?

Truthful.

^ This.

[Dyakovo]

And if things were completely different, some people would still say, "Things are too perfect to just be accident." Things are the way they are for no other reason than that they are. Not understanding how things came to be dos not automatically mean they were arranged that way by "God."

Do not put qoutation marks around the word god.

Why not?

[YellowApple]

Do not put qoutation marks around the word god.

Why not?

Because it offends people who refuse to accept that there are valid beliefs other than their own.

[Dyakovo]

Right.

So, why shouldn't I put quotes around ... that word?

Becuase it is disrespect God is not a word but a being

Nope. "God" whether capitalized or not is a word. It might refer to a specific being who may or not not actually exist.

[Unhealthy2]

Nope. "God" whether capitalized or not is a word. It might refer to a specific being who may or not not actually exist.

Actually no. "God" is a word. God, without the quotes, is not. Use-mention error, butch!

[YellowApple]

Nope. "God" whether capitalized or not is a word. It might refer to a specific being who may or not not actually exist.

Actually no. "God" is a word. God, without the quotes, is not. Use-mention error, butch!

By definition, any sequence of written characters with coherent meaning is a word. Nice try

[Dyakovo]

if there is a god, which has yet to be successfully argued for.

Ha you guys think that to be Christian it makes you weirder.
You can be Christian and not be conservative

Who said you couldn't? A majority of the atheists here aren't atheists because "christians are conservative" we're atheists because we have no compelling reason to believe in any god, let alone the christian one.

[Dyakovo]

So, therefore, you have no idea what you're taliking about.

Ughhhhhh you guys are so...........
Anyway you can't comprehend gods plan but hey if you want to go to hell....... have I nice eternal life there...I guess

Actually, I don't expect to have an eternal life anywhere... I don't believe in an afterlife. My guess is that when I die my personality will cease to exist.

[Dyakovo]

No you didn't. Being an agnost says nothing about your beliefs

Sure it does. To be agnostic means believing that it is not possible to know whether or not god exists. (Although some agnostics believe it is possible for such information to become known some day, while others believe god is inherently unknowable and this will never change.)

It says nothing about whether or not they believe in a god or gods.

[Unhealthy2]

By definition, any sequence of written characters with coherent meaning is a word. Nice try

Except when writing a word without quotes, one is using the word as a signifier of meaning (i.e. a use), and thus saying "God is not a word." is saying "The meaning signified by the word "god" is not, itself, a word." When placing the quotes around the word, the combination of the quotes and the word acts to signify that one is referring to the word itself.

[Jasonovia]

Prove it.
Do particles attract each other for a reason?* Do moons orbit planets for a reason?** Does matter change forms in different conditions for a reason?*** No. It just does.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_bonding
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity
*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_matter

Nice try, but they all happen for a reason. You should have learned that in Physics.

So if God is responsible for all that, why would creation suddenly be done by "magic"?

[Hossaim]

no. No proof, all logic points away form his existence.

[Dyakovo]

Because the Universe now exists, doesn't it? Therefore, the laws of physics do apply.

Before the Universe, there were no laws at all because there was no Universe at all.

Wait so your point of view is that one day there was nothing then poof there was an universe

Pretty much.

[Jasonovia]

Wait so your point of view is that one day there was nothing then poof there was an universe

Pretty much.

So much for an inquiring mind

[YellowApple]

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_bonding
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity
*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_matter

Nice try, but they all happen for a reason. You should have learned that in Physics.

So if God is responsible for all that, why would creation suddenly be done by "magic"?

Who said that God is responsible for all that? But your point is similar to my viewpoint on God: that he merely influences minor elements of the universe and watches them ripple into more profound changes. For example, instead of creating Man, he would influence the probability of various molecules to combine into RNA and DNA.

By definition, any sequence of written characters with coherent meaning is a word. Nice try

Except when writing a word without quotes, one is using the word as a signifier of meaning (i.e. a use), and thus saying "God is not a word." is saying "The meaning signified by the word "god" is not, itself, a word." When placing the quotes around the word, the combination of the quotes and the word acts to signify that one is referring to the word itself.

It still doesn't change the fact that "God", with or without quotes, is still a word in and of itself. The meaning behind it is what we call the "definition" of the word.

[Dyakovo]

Why not?

Because it offends people who refuse to accept that there are valid beliefs other than their own.

That's not a valid reason for not doing. I don't care if I offend them.


Edit: Though I don't usually bother with quotes around "God", I generally stick to "your magical sky faerie" as a suitable replacement... Though for some reason this seems to offend them as well...