In Montana homosexual "recruitment" may be a felony...

[Kazomal]

also shows how silly it is when some homosexual advocates say, “Jesus never condemned homosexual behavior, so why should we?” Jesus did not specifically mention lots of things which we know to be wrong, like bestiality or torture, but that doesn’t mean he approved of them. What Jesus does do is quote from Genesis to affirm God’s pattern for marriage as the basis for his own teaching on divorce. In Mark 10.6-8, He says, “From the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and the two shall become one flesh. Consequently, they are no longer two, but one flesh.” For two men to become one flesh in homosexual intercourse would be a violation of God’s created order and intent. He created man and woman to be indissolubly united in marriage, not two men or two women.

Jesus said not to hurt anyone, that covers things like torture. Anyway, as for the body:

This looks again to be just commentary on human nature: that we reproduce sexually, form households with our mates, and raise our young for an extended period. It doesn't say that to do anything else is a sin or wrong.

[Ceannairceach]

Flaming a respected author and apologetic?

And incest is immoral. Funny thing though: Incest occurred *after* the fall of Man. Before that, they may not have had sexual contact as we know it: They were like God, and He spoke creation into being. Therefore, they could 'reproduce' by Speaking into being their children. Two halves of one voice.

But then they screwed it all up and got kicked out of the garden. And seeing as they were the only two people on Earth... Yeah, they ended up having to commit incest.

Yes, I am flaming him, because his views are idiotic at best, retarded and worthy of institutionalization at worst

And there we go, the form of biblical hypocrisy. Of course, Adam, Eve, and there son weren't the only ones to commit incest. I believe it was either Abraham or Moses who married his sister in an attempt to father a son, and then committed adultery with the help... I'd take a look at this.

[Draconian Races]

Because He is a righteous God, as well as loving.
Because He offers them salvation if they turn from their ways.
Because their 'love' is a perversion, no different than a man or woman sexually 'loving' an animal.
Because He explicitly forbid it in the OT, and in the NT it was stated that it was a perversion.
Because His original design (which doesnt change) was for a Man and a Woman to be joined in marriage and union. Not for two men or two women. (and to be fair, not for straight men or women to be sleeping around either)

even if god's designs do not change, it's a whole different world then it was when jesus was alive. so perhaps to achieve god's design you should no longer take what He said back then as literal truth.

He is the same. His Word is the same.
If you are going to 'change God's plan', that implies you know better than him. The creation usurps the Creator.

[Glorious Freedonia]

(Sound Doctrine/right teaching in this context is "The Gospel.")[/quote]
Haha your a funny guy, If you know so much about the bible... Them tell me this, Why would a all loving god punish men or women for having love with someone of the same sex? Answer me this with a clear reason, I want to hear it[/quote]

Instead of worrying about God will do, why don't you worry about yourself and what you would do. What if God in his mercy did not punish anyone ever but merely asked you for an accounting. Would you want to stand before him and talk to him about how you thought it was a good idea to defy him? I think that the shame of it would be punishment enough. We are not perfect but we should always try to be a little better than we presently are. That is certainly inconsistent with gay pride which essentially proclaims to the world, "Look how filthy we are! Look how we are proud of our wickedness! Isn't it great?" If sex is an area of personal failing, try to improve yourself in that regard. Do not be accepting of it. At least go down fighting for goodness sakes.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Because their 'love' is a perversion, no different than a man or woman sexually 'loving' an animal.

I agree. We can be beasts in bed.

[Ceannairceach]

The OT is Jewish-perceived history, not moral or law codes. The NT is up for interpretation. My local church, for example, allows homosexual marriage; who are you to say that they are wrong?

Then they are not Christians. You cannot openly endorse a sin and expect God not to be angry with you.

Heck, if you could, then the Nazis could all be Christians.
Or any murderer or rapist.

Many people claim to be Christian, but not everyone really is.

And with that, Im off to job hunt. Back later

No, they see the NT as not against homosexuality. Unlike you. So, to them, they are more Christian than you. Faith is odd like that.

[Davids Conglomerates]

Or he wants to test us, mayhaps?

Why bother? He knows everything, so he knows how they're going to turn out in the end.

Has your God got THAT LITTLE to do that he'll make another creature to fight a war with and create a planet and a species to just watch wether they sin and repent or not? Why even watch? It'd be like watching an ant farm for years when you know that at the end you're just going to drown them all.

From what you've said, I've gathered he's that egotistical, that he lets the humans that kiss his ass go to the good place, and send the ones who shun his pride-fueled tempremant to a pit of eternal suffering.

In other words, the answer was "I believe in a god who is a two-faced dick".

[Sucrati]

Ever heard of Everlasting Moral Law? Or did Christ's sacrifice wipe away "Thou shalt not commit murder"?
And yeah, too many focus on the love. Yes, there is love. Yes, there is forgiveness for those who will walk the straight and narrow. (Pun intended)

I also am not preaching, but I Will. Not. Change. My. Views.
Nor accept homosexuality in any way.


And how is it talking out my ass, to actually believe the Bible that my religion is based on.

Ever hear of only one unforgivable sin? Here's a hint, it has absolutely nothing to do with sex.

Err... WRONG, have you not heard of Lust?

[Kharcha chaos raptor]

The OT is Jewish-perceived history, not moral or law codes. The NT is up for interpretation. My local church, for example, allows homosexual marriage; who are you to say that they are wrong?

Then they are not Christians. You cannot openly endorse a sin and expect God not to be angry with you.

Heck, if you could, then the Nazis could all be Christians.

Or any murderer or rapist.

Many people claim to be Christian, but not everyone really is.

And with that, Im off to job hunt. Back later

oh? and why are you 100% certain that you are a 'true' christian then? okay, perhaps your community considers itself to be 'true' christians and thus you grew up like that. but then I can only say that you should start thinking for yourself. you could be wrong. ineffable is the will of god, don't you think assuming you know what he did or did not mean is a bit arrogant?

[Glorious Freedonia]

even if god's designs do not change, it's a whole different world then it was when jesus was alive. so perhaps to achieve god's design you should no longer take what He said back then as literal truth.

He is the same. His Word is the same.
If you are going to 'change God's plan', that implies you know better than him. The creation usurps the Creator.

Although I disagree with you that God wants one man and one woman unions, I certainly agree with you that going against God's plan implies that a Creature is usurping the Creator. Call it pride or blasphemy but it is certainly bad.

I disagree with you on the specifics but I agree with you on the spirit of what you wrote.

[Soheran]

Why are you opposed to lesbians? Most of us who oppose the slide into moral filth do so because of our religious views. Male homosexuality is sinful. Female homosexuality is not sinful. The closest that it gets to sinfulness is in Judaism where it is considered by some rabbis to be less than sin but something that nice Jewish girls do not do because we cannot act like the Greeks who conquered us at one point and loved their lesbian action. It is a point of national pride but not a religious prohibition.

What nonsense this is. I am not aware of any religion that condemns male homosexuality but not female homosexuality. Orthodox Judaism certainly condemns both. The reference to Egypt is just the alleged scriptural source for the provision; it doesn't mean that the rationale is national pride, as opposed to the traditional viewpoint that sexual activity is only acceptable within marriage and marriage is only possible between a man and a woman. It's true that lesbianism is treated less seriously in a variety of major religions, due in part to the (silly) idea that lesbian sex isn't "real" sex, but it is certainly forbidden. (Masturbation isn't real sex, either. It is still forbidden.)

Anti-gay religious teachings on the subject of homosexuality--male and female--are nonsense. But if you want to invoke them, you should make some effort to actually understand and correctly characterize them. To invoke them merely when convenient, when they happen to accord with your personal patterns of discomfort, is not only homophobic (and, for that matter, sexist), but is also an expression of contempt for those teachings you claim to value, and on whose basis you condemn others as participating in "moral filth."

[Wikkiwallana]

Then why are you here? Fighting just to fight? Im pretty sure the bible says something about that.
Stop being a hypocrite. You cannot just write off the parts of it you dont like. And you didn't address the main point.

Im fighting to make a point. And of course, because I actually believe the stuff I say.

This isnt Evangelism Hour with Generic Preacher. Im not trying to save souls at the moment.
That comes when I put on my tophat and get a bullhorn.

You mean you get worse? :shudder:

[Kharcha chaos raptor]

even if god's designs do not change, it's a whole different world then it was when jesus was alive. so perhaps to achieve god's design you should no longer take what He said back then as literal truth.

He is the same. His Word is the same.
If you are going to 'change God's plan', that implies you know better than him. The creation usurps the Creator.

But what is God's plan? do you presume to know the will of God? and I never said to 'change His plan' I said that even if His design has not changed, the world has. So perhaps what He said then should no longer be taken literally, but instead be observed from the mindset of back then.

[Mongolian Khanate]

even if god's designs do not change, it's a whole different world then it was when jesus was alive. so perhaps to achieve god's design you should no longer take what He said back then as literal truth.

He is the same. His Word is the same.
If you are going to 'change God's plan', that implies you know better than him. The creation usurps the Creator.

The Old man should have kept himself up to date instead of resting his ass on the 7th day

[Orcoa]

(Sound Doctrine/right teaching in this context is "The Gospel.")

Haha your a funny guy, If you know so much about the bible... Them tell me this, Why would a all loving god punish men or women for having love with someone of the same sex? Answer me this with a clear reason, I want to hear it[/quote]

Instead of worrying about God will do, why don't you worry about yourself and what you would do. What if God in his mercy did not punish anyone ever but merely asked you for an accounting. Would you want to stand before him and talk to him about how you thought it was a good idea to defy him? I think that the shame of it would be punishment enough. We are not perfect but we should always try to be a little better than we presently are. That is certainly inconsistent with gay pride which essentially proclaims to the world, "Look how filthy we are! Look how we are proud of our wickedness! Isn't it great?" If sex is an area of personal failing, try to improve yourself in that regard. Do not be accepting of it. At least go down fighting for goodness sakes.[/quote]
I don't care what you think I should do, I think your medieval beliefs are hurting people..good people no less. If your calling my best friend who is gay himself a sinner... Well I have two words for you, FUCK YOU. And I don't care if I get banned or punished so yeah I'm done with this thread. Have a good day everyone

[Soheran]

Well I guess one rabbi thought it was sinful for women to have sex with women.

It's in the Talmud. It's also in the compilations of Jewish law usually regarded as authoritative.

[Cannot think of a name]

Heck, if you could, then the Nazis could all be Christians.

They were.

"The German census of May 1939 indicates that 54 percent of Germans considered themselves Protestant and 40 percent considered themselves Catholic, with only 3.5 percent claiming to be neo-pagan "believers in God,"

Or any murderer or rapist.

Many are. (though apparently, getting good statistics on that are a little difficult.

[Davids Conglomerates]

The creation usurps the Creator.

That'd generaly be the case when you give something free will, then treat it like shit half the time for your own personal amusement.

[The Atlantean Menace]

Heck, if you could, then the Nazis could all be Christians.

They were.

"The German census of May 1939 indicates that 54 percent of Germans considered themselves Protestant and 40 percent considered themselves Catholic, with only 3.5 percent claiming to be neo-pagan "believers in God,"

Or any murderer or rapist.

Many are. (though apparently, getting good statistics on that are a little difficult.

Yet more proof that calling yourself something doesn't make you one.

[Mongolian Khanate]

(Sound Doctrine/right teaching in this context is "The Gospel.")

Haha your a funny guy, If you know so much about the bible... Them tell me this, Why would a all loving god punish men or women for having love with someone of the same sex? Answer me this with a clear reason, I want to hear it

Instead of worrying about God will do, why don't you worry about yourself and what you would do. What if God in his mercy did not punish anyone ever but merely asked you for an accounting. Would you want to stand before him and talk to him about how you thought it was a good idea to defy him? I think that the shame of it would be punishment enough. We are not perfect but we should always try to be a little better than we presently are. That is certainly inconsistent with gay pride which essentially proclaims to the world, "Look how filthy we are! Look how we are proud of our wickedness! Isn't it great?" If sex is an area of personal failing, try to improve yourself in that regard. Do not be accepting of it. At least go down fighting for goodness sakes.[/quote]
I don't care what you think I should do, I think your medieval beliefs are hurting people..good people no less. If your calling my best friend who is gay himself a sinner... Well I have two words for you, FUCK YOU. And I don't care if I get banned or punished so yeah I'm done with this thread. Have a good day everyone[/quote]

Good idea to defy him? Sure. That comes in the whole "Free-Will" package.

How are you liking those apples by the way?

[Kharcha chaos raptor]

They were.


Many are. (though apparently, getting good statistics on that are a little difficult.

Yet more proof that calling yourself something doesn't make you one.

which is a double edged-sword. he can call himself christian, but is he truly one?

[Glorious Freedonia]

Well I guess one rabbi thought it was sinful for women to have sex with women.

It's in the Talmud. It's also in the compilations of Jewish law usually regarded as authoritative.

I meant "Gee Whiz", you know, the "J-man". I was referring to the Talmud earlier when I said that lady on lady lickery is not sin it is only considered by some to be naughty because we do not want to be like the Greeks.

[Cannot think of a name]

They were.


Many are. (though apparently, getting good statistics on that are a little difficult.

Yet more proof that calling yourself something doesn't make you one.

Except that in this case it does. There is no membership dues, no certification class you have to pass, no standardized test. Just believe that there is some sky wizard out there micromanaging peoples lives and sacrificing his kids and you get to be a Christian.

[AustriaHungaryBohemia]

Err... WRONG, have you not heard of Lust?

Hate to rain on your parade, but the Seven Deadly Sins are later church doctrine, mentioned nowhere in the Bible

[Glorious Freedonia]

Haha your a funny guy, If you know so much about the bible... Them tell me this, Why would a all loving god punish men or women for having love with someone of the same sex? Answer me this with a clear reason, I want to hear it

Instead of worrying about God will do, why don't you worry about yourself and what you would do. What if God in his mercy did not punish anyone ever but merely asked you for an accounting. Would you want to stand before him and talk to him about how you thought it was a good idea to defy him? I think that the shame of it would be punishment enough. We are not perfect but we should always try to be a little better than we presently are. That is certainly inconsistent with gay pride which essentially proclaims to the world, "Look how filthy we are! Look how we are proud of our wickedness! Isn't it great?" If sex is an area of personal failing, try to improve yourself in that regard. Do not be accepting of it. At least go down fighting for goodness sakes.

I don't care what you think I should do, I think your medieval beliefs are hurting people..good people no less. If your calling my best friend who is gay himself a sinner... Well I have two words for you, FUCK YOU. And I don't care if I get banned or punished so yeah I'm done with this thread. Have a good day everyone[/quote]

Good idea to defy him? Sure. That comes in the whole "Free-Will" package.

How are you liking those apples by the way?[/quote]

Why dont you tone down the anger there? My beliefs are not medieval. They are eternal. If you set yourself against God and are unrepentant about it, that is never really considered to be a good thing. Why do you choose your gay friend over God? That is like people who chose idols of golden calves over God.