In Montana homosexual "recruitment" may be a felony...

[Cannot think of a name]

People have no problem researching shit, happens all the time despite smug betrayals...wait until you end up on the receiving end of a Cat-Tribes post. However, if you make a claim you shouldn't act like a whiny bitch if people want to see where you're getting it. We like to know when we're arguing with your ass.

Its so interesting you feel the way you do, when you haven't made any attempt at a debate with what I've been discussing or the sources I demonstrated.
Instead you've arrived, gotten angry, resorted to swearing like an infant, and then making vague implications that I'll get what I have coming from Cat-Tribes.

Do you have anything constructive to add to the debate about homosexuality, or are you simply spamming this thread with your irritation? Because its not my fault you're uninformed about the plight of homosexuals in the modern world.

You'll do well here...

[Draconian Races]

Actually, he isnt judging. Just reaffirming whats already stated.

Do you believe a murderer, who never repents for their sins, will go to Heaven? Or a rapist?
No sinner who hasnt repented will enter the kingdom of God. And homosexuality is a sin. Therefore, those who do not give up their sin and repent of it, will not enter.

And by the way, as I said before, the attraction isnt the sin. Some people honestly are attracted to the same sex. That isnt the sin or crime.

What is is acting on it. The homosexual acts. The physical forms of moving on that attraction.

As Craig wrote, its fine for a celibate person with a homosexual orientation, to be a Christian. And its good for them to seek counseling. They can eventually enjoy a hetero life.

Source for homosexuality being a sin? As I stated, the OT doesn't count, as its a biased history of the Jews as they see it, not a moral or law code.

Craig is a dumbshit. You'd do well to stop listening to him. One cannot become a heterosexual when you are fully homosexual; Anyone claiming to have been converted is brainwashed.

Romans 1 24-28
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

I Cor. 6.9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be decieved: neither the sexually immoral,nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God.

1 Tim 1: 10
New Living Translation (©2007)
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching

English Standard Version (©2001)
the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

International Standard Version (©2008)
for those involved in sexual immorality, for homosexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for false witnesses, and for whatever else goes against the healthy teaching

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Laws are intended for people involved in sexual sins, for homosexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for those who lie when they take an oath, and for whatever else is against accurate teachings.

King James Bible
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

American King James Version
For fornicators, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for enslavers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

American Standard Version
for fornicators, for abusers of themselves with men, for menstealers, for liars, for false swearers, and if there be any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine;

(Sound Doctrine/right teaching in this context is "The Gospel.")

[Kazomal]

I'm also waiting on an answer on how many materials your clothes are spun from, and if you've repented or not. That could keep you out of the Kingdom.

[Draconian Races]

I'm also waiting on an answer on how many materials your clothes are spun from, and if you've repented or not. That could keep you out of the Kingdom.

Ceremonial law, with a symbolism behind it.

[Glorious Freedonia]

Sexual orientation DOES. NOT. WORK. THAT. WAY.


But there's nothing wrong with lesbians, amirite?

To the first one... why not? Why should we have to accept their 'orientation'? Why should we lower our standards rather than raise theirs.

To the second... maybe from him, but Im an equal-opportunity opposer. As opposed to lesbians as I am to gays. I use 'gay' because it generally means homosexual, but I am not gender-specific.

Why are you opposed to lesbians? Most of us who oppose the slide into moral filth do so because of our religious views. Male homosexuality is sinful. Female homosexuality is not sinful. The closest that it gets to sinfulness is in Judaism where it is considered by some rabbis to be less than sin but something that nice Jewish girls do not do because we cannot act like the Greeks who conquered us at one point and loved their lesbian action. It is a point of national pride but not a religious prohibition.

[Kazomal]

I'm also waiting on an answer on how many materials your clothes are spun from, and if you've repented or not. That could keep you out of the Kingdom.

Ceremonial law, with a symbolism behind it.

It is in the same set of laws as the 10 commandments.

[Ceannairceach]

Romans and Corinthians were written by Paul, and are not evidence; its his personal bias, not anything to do with god or Christ.

Timothy, depending on your translations, refers to homosexuals or male prostitutes, or so I hear. I'm inclined to believe the latter.

Now, where does Jesus declare homosexuality to be wrong? I'd like to hear that.

[Glorious Freedonia]

As Craig wrote, its fine for a celibate person with a homosexual orientation, to be a Christian. And its good for them to seek counseling. They can eventually enjoy a hetero life.

Sexual orientation DOES. NOT. WORK. THAT. WAY.

At least one man is making his stand against perversion, filth, and moral depravity. I do not like what I am seeing out there in the community where more and more people are accepting of male homosexuality.

But there's nothing wrong with lesbians, amirite?

You are right. Lesbians are not sinning by having sex with women but they might be considered someone naughty.

[Kharcha chaos raptor]

Sexual orientation DOES. NOT. WORK. THAT. WAY.


But there's nothing wrong with lesbians, amirite?

To the first one... why not? Why should we have to accept their 'orientation'? Why should we lower our standards rather than raise theirs.

To the second... maybe from him, but Im an equal-opportunity opposer. As opposed to lesbians as I am to gays. I use 'gay' because it generally means homosexual, but I am not gender-specific.

to the first one, it is because attraction is not subject to counseling. you either like something/one or you do not. do you seek counseling because (say) you don't like cabbage? do you seek counseling if you dislike the smell of grass? would counseling work? the answer is no. you cannot change certain things. not really change them. I have heard that there are 'clinics' in the USA (but this is just hearsay, so anyone who knows more please enlighten me on this) which 'cure' homosexualism. by punishing what they percieve as 'gay' reactions and rewarding 'straight' responses, but that's not really changing the person, that's conditioning people to think a certain way out of a subconcious fear of punishment, repressing rather then changing the way they are.

[Draconian Races]

To the first one... why not? Why should we have to accept their 'orientation'? Why should we lower our standards rather than raise theirs.

To the second... maybe from him, but Im an equal-opportunity opposer. As opposed to lesbians as I am to gays. I use 'gay' because it generally means homosexual, but I am not gender-specific.

Why are you opposed to lesbians? Most of us who oppose the slide into moral filth do so because of our religious views. Male homosexuality is sinful. Female homosexuality is not sinful. The closest that it gets to sinfulness is in Judaism where it is considered by some rabbis to be less than sin but something that nice Jewish girls do not do because we cannot act like the Greeks who conquered us at one point and loved their lesbian action. It is a point of national pride but not a religious prohibition.

Ah but it is a sin. Homosexual acts of any kind are. And it is mentioned in the NT alongside male homosexuality.


As for the clothing being in the same set, from what I understood, at least some of those laws were ceremonial. Such as killing two doves as a sin offering and such.
If it is still an applicable law, then yes, Ive been sinning, and yes, I need to get clothing with only one fabric in them.
Something good to look into
*runs of to find if its a sin or not*

[Orcoa]

Source for homosexuality being a sin? As I stated, the OT doesn't count, as its a biased history of the Jews as they see it, not a moral or law code.

Craig is a dumbshit. You'd do well to stop listening to him. One cannot become a heterosexual when you are fully homosexual; Anyone claiming to have been converted is brainwashed.

Romans 1 24-28
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

I Cor. 6.9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be decieved: neither the sexually immoral,nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God.

1 Tim 1: 10
New Living Translation (©2007)
The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching

English Standard Version (©2001)
the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

International Standard Version (©2008)
for those involved in sexual immorality, for homosexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for false witnesses, and for whatever else goes against the healthy teaching

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Laws are intended for people involved in sexual sins, for homosexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for those who lie when they take an oath, and for whatever else is against accurate teachings.

King James Bible
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

American King James Version
For fornicators, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for enslavers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

American Standard Version
for fornicators, for abusers of themselves with men, for menstealers, for liars, for false swearers, and if there be any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine;

(Sound Doctrine/right teaching in this context is "The Gospel.")

Haha your a funny guy, If you know so much about the bible... Them tell me this, Why would a all loving god punish men or women for having love with someone of the same sex? Answer me this with a clear reason, I want to hear it

[Glorious Freedonia]

At least one man is making his stand against perversion, filth, and moral depravity. I do not like what I am seeing out there in the community where more and more people are accepting of male homosexuality.

What is filth. What is moral depravity.

Filth is the sort of dirt that does not wash off with soap and water. That is a paraphrase of something I read in my Boy Scout's Handbook.

Filth is the accumulation of wickedness that has not been purified by any sort of repentance and attempts to try to live a better cleaner life. Moral depravity is how you go through life throwing the filth upon you and wallowing in it like a pig in the mud on a hot day.

We have inherited clear rules about what is expected of us. Perhaps these come from the divine. Perhaps these rules came from our forefathers who wanted to give us the gift of clean living. In any event, these rules should be followed or at least we should try to follow them so that we can be better people. Male homosexuality is not a path to righteousness in the Abrahamic tradition.

[Draconian Races]

Romans and Corinthians were written by Paul, and are not evidence; its his personal bias, not anything to do with god or Christ.

Timothy, depending on your translations, refers to homosexuals or male prostitutes, or so I hear. I'm inclined to believe the latter.

Now, where does Jesus declare homosexuality to be wrong? I'd like to hear that.

And I quote once more:

also shows how silly it is when some homosexual advocates say, “Jesus never condemned homosexual behavior, so why should we?” Jesus did not specifically mention lots of things which we know to be wrong, like bestiality or torture, but that doesn’t mean he approved of them. What Jesus does do is quote from Genesis to affirm God’s pattern for marriage as the basis for his own teaching on divorce. In Mark 10.6-8, He says, “From the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and the two shall become one flesh. Consequently, they are no longer two, but one flesh.” For two men to become one flesh in homosexual intercourse would be a violation of God’s created order and intent. He created man and woman to be indissolubly united in marriage, not two men or two women.

[Davids Conglomerates]

Haha your a funny guy, If you know so much about the bible... Them tell me this, Why would a all loving god punish men or women for having love with someone of the same sex? Answer me this with a clear reason, I want to hear it

He'll say it's Satans work and they sin, without recognising that if there were a Satan, it would either have had to be created by the God, or be a God itself to appear from nothing and thus can potentialy be as powerful, or more powerful than the God he worships.

So either, his God is a selfish dick who won't clean up the mess he made, or he's not as powerful as he lets on.

[Ceannairceach]

Romans and Corinthians were written by Paul, and are not evidence; its his personal bias, not anything to do with god or Christ.

Timothy, depending on your translations, refers to homosexuals or male prostitutes, or so I hear. I'm inclined to believe the latter.

Now, where does Jesus declare homosexuality to be wrong? I'd like to hear that.

And I quote once more:

also shows how silly it is when some homosexual advocates say, “Jesus never condemned homosexual behavior, so why should we?” Jesus did not specifically mention lots of things which we know to be wrong, like bestiality or torture, but that doesn’t mean he approved of them. What Jesus does do is quote from Genesis to affirm God’s pattern for marriage as the basis for his own teaching on divorce. In Mark 10.6-8, He says, “From the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and the two shall become one flesh. Consequently, they are no longer two, but one flesh.” For two men to become one flesh in homosexual intercourse would be a violation of God’s created order and intent. He created man and woman to be indissolubly united in marriage, not two men or two women.

How about you make your own arguments, instead of quoting the dipshit Craig?

Tell me; do you think incest is moral, or immoral? I'd love to here your thoughts on that. It relates amazingly to the creation story of Adam and Eve. And polygamy would also be nice to touch base on.

[Draconian Races]

Haha your a funny guy, If you know so much about the bible... Them tell me this, Why would a all loving god punish men or women for having love with someone of the same sex? Answer me this with a clear reason, I want to hear it

Because He is a righteous God, as well as loving.
Because He offers them salvation if they turn from their ways.
Because their 'love' is a perversion, no different than a man or woman sexually 'loving' an animal.
Because He explicitly forbid it in the OT, and in the NT it was stated that it was a perversion.
Because His original design (which doesnt change) was for a Man and a Woman to be joined in marriage and union. Not for two men or two women. (and to be fair, not for straight men or women to be sleeping around either)

[Kazomal]

Why are you opposed to lesbians? Most of us who oppose the slide into moral filth do so because of our religious views. Male homosexuality is sinful. Female homosexuality is not sinful. The closest that it gets to sinfulness is in Judaism where it is considered by some rabbis to be less than sin but something that nice Jewish girls do not do because we cannot act like the Greeks who conquered us at one point and loved their lesbian action. It is a point of national pride but not a religious prohibition.

Ah but it is a sin. Homosexual acts of any kind are. And it is mentioned in the NT alongside male homosexuality.


As for the clothing being in the same set, from what I understood, at least some of those laws were ceremonial. Such as killing two doves as a sin offering and such.
If it is still an applicable law, then yes, Ive been sinning, and yes, I need to get clothing with only one fabric in them.
Something good to look into
*runs of to find if its a sin or not*

My point was that there are many, many infractions we all make all the time, knowingly or unknowingly, but the important stuff is the bigger picture stuff (love and compassion for all, pride is bad, etc). For example, charity is good, but the mindset that makes charity natural is better, and is in fact the point.

Also, all that stuff about how a person's sins are between that person and God, you have no right to intrude with your own judgements and condemnations, or even comments. You are to live your life right, see to your own sins and constant betterment, be nice to everyone, bear malice towards none, and let God sort out people's sins when they die. You know, everything that Jesus gave us.

[Glorious Freedonia]

Why are you opposed to lesbians? Most of us who oppose the slide into moral filth do so because of our religious views. Male homosexuality is sinful. Female homosexuality is not sinful. The closest that it gets to sinfulness is in Judaism where it is considered by some rabbis to be less than sin but something that nice Jewish girls do not do because we cannot act like the Greeks who conquered us at one point and loved their lesbian action. It is a point of national pride but not a religious prohibition.

Ah but it is a sin. Homosexual acts of any kind are. And it is mentioned in the NT alongside male homosexuality.


As for the clothing being in the same set, from what I understood, at least some of those laws were ceremonial. Such as killing two doves as a sin offering and such.
If it is still an applicable law, then yes, Ive been sinning, and yes, I need to get clothing with only one fabric in them.
Something good to look into
*runs of to find if its a sin or not*

Hey I was shocked when I learned about the two fabric rule too. I read it in Torah class and I was like, "Dang, I read the Bible and I missed that!"

I am Jewish and I am no expert on the NT. Well I guess one rabbi thought it was sinful for women to have sex with women. What is the language of that prohibition on lesbian sex?

[Ceannairceach]

Haha your a funny guy, If you know so much about the bible... Them tell me this, Why would a all loving god punish men or women for having love with someone of the same sex? Answer me this with a clear reason, I want to hear it

Because He is a righteous God, as well as loving.
Because He offers them salvation if they turn from their ways.
Because their 'love' is a perversion, no different than a man or woman sexually 'loving' an animal.
Because He explicitly forbid it in the OT, and in the NT it was stated that it was a perversion.
Because His original design (which doesnt change) was for a Man and a Woman to be joined in marriage and union. Not for two men or two women. (and to be fair, not for straight men or women to be sleeping around either)

The OT is Jewish-perceived history, not moral or law codes. The NT is up for interpretation. My local church, for example, allows homosexual marriage; who are you to say that they are wrong?

[Draconian Races]

Haha your a funny guy, If you know so much about the bible... Them tell me this, Why would a all loving god punish men or women for having love with someone of the same sex? Answer me this with a clear reason, I want to hear it

He'll say it's Satans work and they sin, without recognising that if there were a Satan, it would either have had to be created by the God, or be a God itself to appear from nothing and thus can potentialy be as powerful, or more powerful than the God he worships.

So either, his God is a selfish dick who won't clean up the mess he made, or he's not as powerful as he lets on.

Or he wants to test us, mayhaps?

And I quote once more:

How about you make your own arguments, instead of quoting the dipshit Craig?

Tell me; do you think incest is moral, or immoral? I'd love to here your thoughts on that. It relates amazingly to the creation story of Adam and Eve. And polygamy would also be nice to touch base on.

Flaming a respected author and apologetic?

And incest is immoral. Funny thing though: Incest occurred *after* the fall of Man. Before that, they may not have had sexual contact as we know it: They were like God, and He spoke creation into being. Therefore, they could 'reproduce' by Speaking into being their children. Two halves of one voice.

But then they screwed it all up and got kicked out of the garden. And seeing as they were the only two people on Earth... Yeah, they ended up having to commit incest.

[Wikkiwallana]

Ever heard of the Sermon on the Mount? The Golden Rule?



Also phrased as 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'.

It's like you took all the love, all the good parts of Christianity and burned them all on a bonfire of hate and close-mindedness.

Ever heard of Everlasting Moral Law? Or did Christ's sacrifice wipe away "Thou shalt not commit murder"?
And yeah, too many focus on the love. Yes, there is love. Yes, there is forgiveness for those who will walk the straight and narrow. (Pun intended)

I also am not preaching, but I Will. Not. Change. My. Views.
Nor accept homosexuality in any way.


And how is it talking out my ass, to actually believe the Bible that my religion is based on.

Ever hear of only one unforgivable sin? Here's a hint, it has absolutely nothing to do with sex.

[Kobeanare]

Because His original design (which doesnt change) was for a Man and a Woman to be joined in marriage and union. Not for two men or two women. (and to be fair, not for straight men or women to be sleeping around either)

And yet there's homosexuality, which, not being a choice, must therefore be by God's design. Doesn't that make God just a bit of a jerk?

[Kharcha chaos raptor]

Haha your a funny guy, If you know so much about the bible... Them tell me this, Why would a all loving god punish men or women for having love with someone of the same sex? Answer me this with a clear reason, I want to hear it

Because He is a righteous God, as well as loving.
Because He offers them salvation if they turn from their ways.
Because their 'love' is a perversion, no different than a man or woman sexually 'loving' an animal.
Because He explicitly forbid it in the OT, and in the NT it was stated that it was a perversion.
Because His original design (which doesnt change) was for a Man and a Woman to be joined in marriage and union. Not for two men or two women. (and to be fair, not for straight men or women to be sleeping around either)

even if god's designs do not change, it's a whole different world then it was when jesus was alive. so perhaps to achieve god's design you should no longer take what He said back then as literal truth.

[Draconian Races]

Because He is a righteous God, as well as loving.
Because He offers them salvation if they turn from their ways.
Because their 'love' is a perversion, no different than a man or woman sexually 'loving' an animal.
Because He explicitly forbid it in the OT, and in the NT it was stated that it was a perversion.
Because His original design (which doesnt change) was for a Man and a Woman to be joined in marriage and union. Not for two men or two women. (and to be fair, not for straight men or women to be sleeping around either)

The OT is Jewish-perceived history, not moral or law codes. The NT is up for interpretation. My local church, for example, allows homosexual marriage; who are you to say that they are wrong?

Then they are not Christians. You cannot openly endorse a sin and expect God not to be angry with you.

Heck, if you could, then the Nazis could all be Christians.
Or any murderer or rapist.

Many people claim to be Christian, but not everyone really is.

And with that, Im off to job hunt. Back later

[Cannot think of a name]

Because their 'love' is a perversion, no different than a man or woman sexually 'loving' an animal.

Well, except in that animals cannot give informed consent...