In Montana homosexual "recruitment" may be a felony...

[Luciratus]

It does, however, increase the chances of you becoming Cletus the slack-jawed yokel.

to be more precise it increases the chances of the children of such a relationship becoming Cletus the slack-jawed yokel.

Poor Cletus the slack-jawed yokel...

[Draconian Races]

I Will. Not. Change. My. Views.

Then. Do. Not. Bloody. Engage. In. Debate.

Debate isnt about getting me to change my views. And actually, I dont really give a flying ICBM if I change anyone elses. I just want to put my views out, because I dont feel there is enough opposition to the 'popular' views.

[Seltwar]

It does, however, increase the chances of you becoming Cletus the slack-jawed yokel.

to be more precise it increases the chances of the children of such a relationship becoming Cletus the slack-jawed yokel.

And as such that is a bad thing for humanity.
Things i believe we should answer to.
Law:All
Our fellow Men/Women: All
Earth: those who live in it *taking care of it making sure we dont blow it up *
State: Society
Religion: Ourselves.

[Ifreann]

It doesn't, though. It can, over time, limit genetic diversity among the resulting offspring. But not all sex leads to children, and just because your parents are brother and sister doesn't mean you'll be Cletus the slack-jawed yokel.

It does, however, increase the chances of you becoming Cletus the slack-jawed yokel.

Slightly. You'll be more likely to inherit recessive genes, but recessive doesn't mean bad.

[Draconian Races]

to be more precise it increases the chances of the children of such a relationship becoming Cletus the slack-jawed yokel.

Poor Cletus the slack-jawed yokel...

Luc... best comment of this entire thread XD


I think I am going to bed now. Its 2:40 AM, and I have to be up soon.

I'll be on tomorrow >_> Either to post in this thread, or put my Chrewish (Christian/Jewish) view on some other thread.

[Luciratus]

to be more precise it increases the chances of the children of such a relationship becoming Cletus the slack-jawed yokel.

And as such that is a bad thing for humanity.
Things i believe we should answer to.
Law:All
Our fellow Men/Women: All
Earth: those who live in it *taking care of it making sure we dont blow it up *
State: Society
Religion: Ourselves.

At the end of the day, we all have to answer to ourselves...

[Seltwar]

Then. Do. Not. Bloody. Engage. In. Debate.

Debate isnt about getting me to change my views. And actually, I dont really give a flying ICBM if I change anyone elses. I just want to put my views out, because I dont feel there is enough opposition to the 'popular' views.

Debate or debating is a formal method of interactive and representational argument.
An argument in logic is a set of one or more meaningful declarative sentences (or "propositions") known as the premises along with another sentence known as the conclusion. Some authors refer to the premises and conclusion using the terms declarative sentence, statement, proposition, sentence, or even indicative utterance. The reason for the variety is concern about the ontological significance of the terms, proposition in particular.
Stop. Twisting. What. You. Say. That. Is. Lying. The. Bible. Does. Not. Condone. Liars. As. Liars. As. You. Believe. Will. Go. To. Hell.

[AustriaHungaryBohemia]

Debate isnt about getting me to change my views. And actually, I dont really give a flying ICBM if I change anyone elses. I just want to put my views out, because I dont feel there is enough opposition to the 'popular' views.

Yes, debate is about changing each other's views. You have put your views out. Ok. If you do not want a debate, that's it. We can just let them rot on the garbage heap stand. But that's not the purpose of a forum.

[Draconian Races]

And as such that is a bad thing for humanity.
Things i believe we should answer to.
Law:All
Our fellow Men/Women: All
Earth: those who live in it *taking care of it making sure we dont blow it up *
State: Society
Religion: Ourselves.

At the end of the day, we all have to answer to ourselves...

Which is precisely why I bother posting anything.

I cant stand much of the Christian Church for their crap and hypocrisy... for their spinelessness and inability to actually stand against any sort of tide. Their sermons on love and kindness, and no mention of Christ as a warrior... of God as being an avenger.


So how can I live with myself if I never stand for what I believe?

[The Cat-Tribe]

tl;dr: Montana State Rep. Ken Peterson, R-Billings, and chair of the House Judiciary Committee, thinks "recruitment" of non-gays by gays should be a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a $50,000 fine.

Fourteen years ago the Montana Supreme Court ruled that a state law criminalizing gay sex violates Montana's constitution, yet the Montana Legislature has repeatedly failed to scrub the language, which places homosexuality in the same legal category as bestiality, from the books. This session's effort, sponsored by Sen. Tom Facey, D-Missoula, died in a House committee last month after passage in the Senate.

The legislature's inaction was not, it turns out, another non-priority falling off the too-long to-do list. Rather, it's homophobic lawmakers subtly suggesting that homosexual acts should still be outlawed, the Supreme Court—and equal rights in general—be damned. In fact, at least one lawmaker, Rep. Ken Peterson, R-Billings, an attorney, argues that the archaic law may still apply in certain situations.

Which situations? According to Peterson, chair of the House Judiciary Committee, there are at least two prosecutable offenses—felonies punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a $50,000 fine. One is the "recruitment" of non-gays. "Homosexuals can't go out into the heterosexual community and try to recruit people, or try to enlist them in homosexual acts," Peterson says. He provides an example: "'Here, young man, your hormones are raging. Let's go in this bedroom, and we'll engage in some homosexual acts. You'll find you like it.'" Peterson hasn't actually seen this happen, he says, because "I don't associate with that group of people at all... I've associated with mainstream people all my life."

The other offense, in Peterson's legal opinion, is the public display of homosexuality, since he believes the Supreme Court's decision only applies to private acts behind closed doors. Being gay in public, he says, is a wholly different matter:

"In my mind, if they were engaging in acts in public that could be construed as homosexual, it would violate that statute. It has to be more than affection. It has to be overt homosexual acts of some kind or another... If kissing goes to that extent, yes. If it's more than that, yes."

Fortunately, Peterson's "interpretation" is his own daydream. It will never fly, according to Larry Epstein, vice president of the Montana County Attorneys Association, which is composed of people who prosecute felony crimes across the state. "The statute will not be enforced as written—ever," Epstein says. "We take our marching orders not only from the legislature but from the courts in which we appear."

http://missoulanews.bigskypress.com/mis ... id=1423534

Really? Even for Montana that's a stretch. I think Mr. Peterson needs to get out of his closet and have himself an affair with a nice young man.

Lily Allen has the perfect response to these legislators and those who think like them: Fuck You (Very Much):

Look inside,
Look inside your tiny mind
Now look a bit harder
Cause we're so uninspired,
so sick and tired of all the
hatred you harbor

So you say
It's not okay to be gay
Well I think you're just evil
You're just some racist who
can't tie my laces
Your point of view is medieval

Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
Cause we hate what you do
And we hate your whole crew
So please don't stay in touch

Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
Cause your words don't translate
And it's getting quite late
So please don't stay in touch

. . .

Do you,
Do you really enjoy living a
life that's so hateful?
Cause there's a hole where
your soul should be
Your losing control of it and
it's really distasteful

Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
Cause your words don't translate
And it's getting quite late
So please don't stay in touch

. . .

[Draconian Races]

Debate isnt about getting me to change my views. And actually, I dont really give a flying ICBM if I change anyone elses. I just want to put my views out, because I dont feel there is enough opposition to the 'popular' views.

Yes, debate is about changing each other's views. You have put your views out. Ok. If you do not want a debate, that's it. We can just let them rot on the garbage heap stand. But that's not the purpose of a forum.

Yes, I figure others will post their views, and then we'll squabble, and in the end, we'll both go home feeling we've won.

Or something like that.

[Seltwar]

And as such that is a bad thing for humanity.
Things i believe we should answer to.
Law:All
Our fellow Men/Women: All
Earth: those who live in it *taking care of it making sure we dont blow it up *
State: Society
Religion: Ourselves.

At the end of the day, we all have to answer to ourselves...

True, but religion is about the afterlife and how you live YOUR life as such your the only one responsible for it.
I dont see why OP was so mad about this whole argument. If he is right what does he have to worry about? He has the world's best goal keeper.

[Luciratus]

tl;dr: Montana State Rep. Ken Peterson, R-Billings, and chair of the House Judiciary Committee, thinks "recruitment" of non-gays by gays should be a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a $50,000 fine.

http://missoulanews.bigskypress.com/missoula/etc/Content?oid=1423534

Really? Even for Montana that's a stretch. I think Mr. Peterson needs to get out of his closet and have himself an affair with a nice young man.

Lily Allen has the perfect response to these legislators and those who think like them: Fuck You (Very Much):

Look inside,
Look inside your tiny mind
Now look a bit harder
Cause we're so uninspired,
so sick and tired of all the
hatred you harbor

So you say
It's not okay to be gay
Well I think you're just evil
You're just some racist who
can't tie my laces
Your point of view is medieval

Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
Cause we hate what you do
And we hate your whole crew
So please don't stay in touch

Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
Cause your words don't translate
And it's getting quite late
So please don't stay in touch

. . .

Do you,
Do you really enjoy living a
life that's so hateful?
Cause there's a hole where
your soul should be
Your losing control of it and
it's really distasteful

Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
Cause your words don't translate
And it's getting quite late
So please don't stay in touch

. . .

What. The. Fuck.

[Kharcha chaos raptor]

okay, let me quote some parts of your posts just now.

which are things written by man? correct?

so man is not above mistakes and falsehoods.

now I'm agnost, so I might continue with the apostles, but they could be said to have been closer to god by dint of being apostles which makes the original bible a source from Him, whereas the other sources are made by 'normal' people. who, as you have said, are not above mistakes. they may even be 'perverted by satan' if I may again quote your own words.

Correct. They are written by man. So are the links of 'Christians' who disagree.

So its kind of like fighting fire with fire, but it works.

therefore, any religion, and a possible further argument -though I do not support it- any morality or definition of right or wrong, could be said to be void, uncertain. but given that there still is a world (and not a post-nuclear apocalypse nightmarish version of it) clearly 'good' is not limited to those who happen to believe in the right 'religion/philosophy'. nor is 'bad' limited to 'wrong religions/philosophies'.

[Draconian Races]

Lily Allen has the perfect response to these legislators and those who think like them: Fuck You (Very Much):

Look inside,
Look inside your tiny mind
Now look a bit harder
Cause we're so uninspired,
so sick and tired of all the
hatred you harbor

So you say
It's not okay to be gay
Well I think you're just evil
You're just some racist who
can't tie my laces
Your point of view is medieval

Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
Cause we hate what you do
And we hate your whole crew
So please don't stay in touch

Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
Cause your words don't translate
And it's getting quite late
So please don't stay in touch

. . .

Do you,
Do you really enjoy living a
life that's so hateful?
Cause there's a hole where
your soul should be
Your losing control of it and
it's really distasteful

Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
Cause your words don't translate
And it's getting quite late
So please don't stay in touch

. . .

What. The. Fuck.

I've heard that song before...

I always wondered why theres no Christian songs talking about gays as aggressively as that one talks about 'homophobes'

[Luciratus]

At the end of the day, we all have to answer to ourselves...

True, but religion is about the afterlife and how you live YOUR life as such your the only one responsible for it.
I dont see why OP was so mad about this whole argument. If he is right what does he have to worry about? He has the world's best goal keeper.

It is just a general truth. I shall follow my own values to the best of my ability and uphold what I perceive as my responsibilities to G_d, to my family, to my principles, to justice, to my countires, and to myself.

[Draconian Races]

Correct. They are written by man. So are the links of 'Christians' who disagree.

So its kind of like fighting fire with fire, but it works.

therefore, any religion, and a possible further argument -though I do not support it- any morality or definition of right or wrong, could be said to be void, uncertain. but given that there still is a world (and not a post-nuclear apocalypse nightmarish version of it) is still there clearly 'good' is not limited to those who happen to believe in the right 'religion/philosophy'. nor is 'bad' limited to 'wrong religions/philosophies'.

Then why does 'good' exist? What IS good or evil? If any religion can be fallible, if there is no real Word of God, then how do we create our morals. And as stated earlier, we can do as we want, regardless of society, no? Because our morals are the only ones that count, as there is no good or evil, and thus morals are subjective.

Anyway, night.

[Seltwar]

Before i go im just gonna leave this here.
1x0=0
2x0=0
therefore 1divided by zero =0
and 2 divided by zero =0
1=2
prove me wrong.

[Ifreann]

It doesn't, though. It can, over time, limit genetic diversity among the resulting offspring. But not all sex leads to children, and just because your parents are brother and sister doesn't mean you'll be Cletus the slack-jawed yokel.

True. First-generation offspring of incest arent always defective.

And no, they choose to make themselves like animals. People who say humans are animals, and believe such, thus lower themselves to the level of animals. Therefore, wouldnt that make them sub-human, if you follow that thoughtpath?

*Wanders off to raise funding for a new Crusade.*

Humans are, by any objective standard, animals. We're rather different from other animals in several ways, but not so different that we're something else.

---

Debate isnt about getting me to change my views. And actually, I dont really give a flying ICBM if I change anyone elses. I just want to put my views out, because I dont feel there is enough opposition to the 'popular' views.

Yes, debate is about changing each other's views. You have put your views out. Ok. If you do not want a debate, that's it. We can just let them rot on the garbage heap stand. But that's not the purpose of a forum.

To echo Bottle, I'm not trying to convince Draconian Races of anything. I'm challenging his claims and opinions for my own benefit(if I can't defend my position on [something], then why am I holding it?), and for the benefit of others reading this. DR is a lost cause, who will likely never change his views. But I may well change the views of someone else lurking the thread, hopefully for the better.

---

It doesn't, though. It can, over time, limit genetic diversity among the resulting offspring. But not all sex leads to children, and just because your parents are brother and sister doesn't mean you'll be Cletus the slack-jawed yokel.

There is the frequent abuse Ifreann. Although, abuse is becoming more common in all relationships any how. *I sigh.*

Abusive relationships are, obviously, a Bad Thing™, regardless of any other quality of those relationships. There's no reason I'm aware of that an incestuous relationship couldn't be perfectly healthy for those involved.

[AustriaHungaryBohemia]

Say, Draco? (I may call you Draco, right?) What do you make of the following Bible quote:

"Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together"
Deuteronomy 22:11, King James Version

Are you wearing clothing of mixed fiber? Sinner?

Before i go im just gonna leave this here.
1x0=0
2x0=0
therefore 1 divided by zero =0
and 2 divided by zero =0
1=2
prove me wrong.

done

[Ifreann]

Before i go im just gonna leave this here.
1x0=0
2x0=0
therefore 1divided by zero =0...
prove me wrong.

Division by zero is not defined. QED.

[Xarithis]

tl;dr: Montana State Rep. Ken Peterson, R-Billings, and chair of the House Judiciary Committee, thinks "recruitment" of non-gays by gays should be a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a $50,000 fine.

Huh. Is it even possible for gays to "recruit" non-gays? Or vice-versa?

I mean, unless you are gay or bi (or uncertain) to begin with, you aren't going to accept the gay's proposition.

[Luciratus]

Before i go im just gonna leave this here.
1x0=0
2x0=0
therefore 1divided by zero =0
and 2 divided by zero =0
1=2
prove me wrong.

No... http://www.jimloy.com/algebra/two.htm

Edit: This example is not the exact problem, but Ifrean is correct in his assessment.

[Seltwar]

therefore, any religion, and a possible further argument -though I do not support it- any morality or definition of right or wrong, could be said to be void, uncertain. but given that there still is a world (and not a post-nuclear apocalypse nightmarish version of it) is still there clearly 'good' is not limited to those who happen to believe in the right 'religion/philosophy'. nor is 'bad' limited to 'wrong religions/philosophies'.

Then why does 'good' exist? What IS good or evil? If any religion can be fallible, if there is no real Word of God, then how do we create our morals. And as stated earlier, we can do as we want, regardless of society, no? Because our morals are the only ones that count, as there is no good or evil, and thus morals are subjective.

Anyway, night.

Morals dont need religion.
Im atheist and i believe that killings is wrong...that person has as much right to life as me.
Stealing is wrong...its not mine.
Rape is wrong...she doesnt want to have sex.
There you go. Im a moral person. I donate to charities. I help at the animal shelter every once in a while. I donate to RELIGIOUS organizations that help Africa and the poor. I worked for the red cross for a little while.
Religion is fine if its helping but when it start's basic human rights of Food, Water, Shelter,Life, Love then i have a huge problem.
Every Human being has these rights. When you commit crime that denies a basic right i believe you forfeit that right yourself.

[Draconian Races]

Say, Draco? (I may call you Draco, right?) What do you make of the following Bible quote:

"Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together"
Deuteronomy 22:11, King James Version

Are you wearing clothing of mixed fiber? Sinner?

Before i go im just gonna leave this here.
1x0=0
2x0=0
therefore 1 divided by zero =0
and 2 divided by zero =0
1=2
prove me wrong.

done

Primarily ceremonial, through a symbolism. The ox and donkey scripture before it is just practical XD

And as for the lost cause thing... thats why I attempt to state my beliefs. To encourage anyone who may believe similarly. To maybe point out to people a few things. Like how homosexuality is truly no different than incest, murder, rape, bestiality, pedophilia, theft, and other sins/crimes. Allow one, allow all.

No matter what new laws you come up with to try to change it, no matter how you word-play it to make it sound different, theyre all one in the same. Break one, youve broken all. Allow one, you might as well allow all.