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Screwed up justice system story #768934.

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Sun Aut Ex
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Screwed up justice system story #768934.

Postby Sun Aut Ex » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:05 pm

A JUDGE says Keli Lane's behaviour was "virtually inexplicable" in sentencing her today to 18 years' jail for the murder of her baby.

In the Supreme Court today, Judge Anthony Whealy said Keli Lane's act of murder was "premeditated but only for a short time", saying it was "done as an act of desperation".

Keli Lane will serve at least 13 years and five months for murder of baby Tegan, plus four years and seven months on parole. She will be eligible for release on May 12, 2023.

He said Lane had "nowhere to turn" and her irrationality and "complexities of her personality" led to her killing baby Tegan.

Lane, in court with her hair dyed dark, reportedly started crying as the Judge Whealy noted her "loving/close relationship with her fourth child", who cannot be named.

Lane, who had two terminations as a teenager, kept three pregnancies and births secret.

She adopted out her first and third babies, but was convicted of murdering Tegan, whose body has never been found.

Lane claimed she handed Tegan over to the infant's father, a man with whom she said she had a brief and secret affair.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/keli-la ... z1JYqsagbM


Note the bolded. They literally have no evidence that a crime has been commited. All I can think of is the softball episode of The Simpsons, where Steve Sax is arrested by the Springfield police ("You're from New York, aren't you Sax? There's a lot of unsolved murders in New York. But you wouldn't know anything about that, would you Steve?").
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So you think it's ok to waste valuable police time and resources to pander to minority superstitions?

"All available officers, report downtown, armed suspected firing wildly into the public."
"I'll be about ten minutes, I have to go to ID a Muslim woman."


Yes.

Unless of course it's not OK for a woman to ask for a female to ask for a female officer to carry out body checks. In which case, the answer would be no.

"All available officers, report downtown, armed suspected firing wildly into the public."
"I'll be about then minutes, I have to go to carry out a body check on a woman."

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Soyut
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Postby Soyut » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:18 pm

Well this is the most literal abuse of habeas corpus I've ever heard of.

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The Atlantean Menace
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Postby The Atlantean Menace » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:18 pm

Sun Aut Ex wrote:
A JUDGE says Keli Lane's behaviour was "virtually inexplicable" in sentencing her today to 18 years' jail for the murder of her baby.

In the Supreme Court today, Judge Anthony Whealy said Keli Lane's act of murder was "premeditated but only for a short time", saying it was "done as an act of desperation".

Keli Lane will serve at least 13 years and five months for murder of baby Tegan, plus four years and seven months on parole. She will be eligible for release on May 12, 2023.

He said Lane had "nowhere to turn" and her irrationality and "complexities of her personality" led to her killing baby Tegan.

Lane, in court with her hair dyed dark, reportedly started crying as the Judge Whealy noted her "loving/close relationship with her fourth child", who cannot be named.

Lane, who had two terminations as a teenager, kept three pregnancies and births secret.

She adopted out her first and third babies, but was convicted of murdering Tegan, whose body has never been found.

Lane claimed she handed Tegan over to the infant's father, a man with whom she said she had a brief and secret affair.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/keli-la ... z1JYqsagbM


Note the bolded. They literally have no evidence that a crime has been commited. All I can think of is the softball episode of The Simpsons, where Steve Sax is arrested by the Springfield police ("You're from New York, aren't you Sax? There's a lot of unsolved murders in New York. But you wouldn't know anything about that, would you Steve?").



Just because they don't have the body doesn't mean that there's no evidence she killed the child.

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Lacadaemon
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Postby Lacadaemon » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:25 pm

Soyut wrote:Well this is the most literal abuse of habeas corpus I've ever heard of.


Don't you mean corpus delicti?
The kind of middle-class mentality which actuates both those responsible for strategy and government has little knowledge of the new psychology and organizing ability of the totalitarian States. The forces we are fighting are governed neither by the old strategy nor follow the old tactics.

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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:26 pm

Sun Aut Ex wrote:
A JUDGE says Keli Lane's behaviour was "virtually inexplicable" in sentencing her today to 18 years' jail for the murder of her baby.

In the Supreme Court today, Judge Anthony Whealy said Keli Lane's act of murder was "premeditated but only for a short time", saying it was "done as an act of desperation".

Keli Lane will serve at least 13 years and five months for murder of baby Tegan, plus four years and seven months on parole. She will be eligible for release on May 12, 2023.

He said Lane had "nowhere to turn" and her irrationality and "complexities of her personality" led to her killing baby Tegan.

Lane, in court with her hair dyed dark, reportedly started crying as the Judge Whealy noted her "loving/close relationship with her fourth child", who cannot be named.

Lane, who had two terminations as a teenager, kept three pregnancies and births secret.

She adopted out her first and third babies, but was convicted of murdering Tegan, whose body has never been found.

Lane claimed she handed Tegan over to the infant's father, a man with whom she said she had a brief and secret affair.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/keli-la ... z1JYqsagbM


Note the bolded. They literally have no evidence that a crime has been commited. All I can think of is the softball episode of The Simpsons, where Steve Sax is arrested by the Springfield police ("You're from New York, aren't you Sax? There's a lot of unsolved murders in New York. But you wouldn't know anything about that, would you Steve?").

They don't always find the body. That and the fact that the alleged dad didn't have custody of the child. If she gave the child to someone else they would of stepped forward. They haven't. Not proof in itself but suspicious.
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NERVUN
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Postby NERVUN » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:31 pm

Given that babies usually do not disapear by themselves...
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Soyut
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Postby Soyut » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:32 pm

Lacadaemon wrote:
Soyut wrote:Well this is the most literal abuse of habeas corpus I've ever heard of.


Don't you mean corpus delicti?


wups! got my latin mixed up. I bow to you sir.

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The Soviet Technocracy
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Postby The Soviet Technocracy » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:34 pm

The Corparation wrote:
Sun Aut Ex wrote:
Note the bolded. They literally have no evidence that a crime has been commited. All I can think of is the softball episode of The Simpsons, where Steve Sax is arrested by the Springfield police ("You're from New York, aren't you Sax? There's a lot of unsolved murders in New York. But you wouldn't know anything about that, would you Steve?").

They don't always find the body. That and the fact that the alleged dad didn't have custody of the child. If she gave the child to someone else they would of stepped forward. They haven't. Not proof in itself but suspicious.


Suspicion doesn't make a conviction.
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Anemos Major
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Postby Anemos Major » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:35 pm

What happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'?

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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:37 pm

The Soviet Technocracy wrote:
The Corparation wrote:They don't always find the body. That and the fact that the alleged dad didn't have custody of the child. If she gave the child to someone else they would of stepped forward. They haven't. Not proof in itself but suspicious.


Suspicion doesn't make a conviction.

True, but they probably have better evidence. Even circumstantial evidence could be enough to convict. If she gave the baby to the baby's father why has he not stepped forward. A man she seeing around the time the baby was conceived with a nearly identical name doesn't have it. And no one with the exact name has been produced with the child. She's lying about something. (Which if under oath is a crime)
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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:39 pm

The Corparation wrote:
The Soviet Technocracy wrote:
Suspicion doesn't make a conviction.

True, but they probably have better evidence. Even circumstantial evidence could be enough to convict. If she gave the baby to the baby's father why has he not stepped forward. A man she seeing around the time the baby was conceived with a nearly identical name doesn't have it. And no one with the exact name has been produced with the child. She's lying about something. (Which if under oath is a crime)

The man killed the baby, perhaps.
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Lacadaemon
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Postby Lacadaemon » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:39 pm

Anemos Major wrote:What happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'?


I gather there was a trial before sentencing, so...
The kind of middle-class mentality which actuates both those responsible for strategy and government has little knowledge of the new psychology and organizing ability of the totalitarian States. The forces we are fighting are governed neither by the old strategy nor follow the old tactics.

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Lacadaemon
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Postby Lacadaemon » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:40 pm

Maybe the Dingoes ate it.
The kind of middle-class mentality which actuates both those responsible for strategy and government has little knowledge of the new psychology and organizing ability of the totalitarian States. The forces we are fighting are governed neither by the old strategy nor follow the old tactics.

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Qatarab
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Postby Qatarab » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:42 pm

Where's my torch. Time to burn some courts down :lol:
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Neo Arcad wrote:
Qatarab wrote:Where's my torch? Time to burn some courts down.


Oh, you crazy Muslim you!

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Anemos Major
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Postby Anemos Major » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:42 pm

Lacadaemon wrote:
Anemos Major wrote:What happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'?


I gather there was a trial before sentencing, so...


That's the point.

My question to the OP is, would the jury have reached such a conclusion without clear evidence?

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Sun Aut Ex
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Postby Sun Aut Ex » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:44 pm

Anemos Major wrote:That's the point.

My question to the OP is, would the jury have reached such a conclusion without clear evidence?


Keeping in mind that juries are idiots. I mean, juries let murderers off because they expected the prosecution to do some CSI DNA magic shit. That's how stupid people are.
Last edited by Sun Aut Ex on Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Strykyh wrote:I wasn't trying to be intelligent.

Keronians wrote:
So you think it's ok to waste valuable police time and resources to pander to minority superstitions?

"All available officers, report downtown, armed suspected firing wildly into the public."
"I'll be about ten minutes, I have to go to ID a Muslim woman."


Yes.

Unless of course it's not OK for a woman to ask for a female to ask for a female officer to carry out body checks. In which case, the answer would be no.

"All available officers, report downtown, armed suspected firing wildly into the public."
"I'll be about then minutes, I have to go to carry out a body check on a woman."

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Mushet
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Postby Mushet » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:46 pm

NERVUN wrote:Given that babies usually do not disapear by themselves...

Ever seen baby's day out?

I bet it's on a wacky adventure as we speak
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Lacadaemon
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Postby Lacadaemon » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:48 pm

Sun Aut Ex wrote:Keeping in mind that juries are idiots. I mean, juries let murderers off because they expected the prosecution to do some CSI DNA magic shit. That's how stupid people are.


Juries are composed of the people to stupid to get out of jury service. So it's self evident that they won't be up to the job.
The kind of middle-class mentality which actuates both those responsible for strategy and government has little knowledge of the new psychology and organizing ability of the totalitarian States. The forces we are fighting are governed neither by the old strategy nor follow the old tactics.

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Jagalonia
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Postby Jagalonia » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:49 pm

Lacadaemon wrote:Maybe the Dingoes ate it.

Damn dingos....Always eating our babies...
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Neo Arcad
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Postby Neo Arcad » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:53 pm

Qatarab wrote:Where's my torch. Time to burn some courts down :lol:


Oh, you crazy Muslim you! :lol2:
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Qatarab
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Postby Qatarab » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:19 pm

Neo Arcad wrote:
Qatarab wrote:Where's my torch. Time to burn some courts down :lol:


Oh, you crazy Muslim you! :lol2:

Hey...I'm following the footsteps of a role model: Daniel Shays.

Of course he burned courts because he didn't like that they were taking their farms when they couldn't pay due to the terrible economic situation at the time but....does it matter? :lol:
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Neo Arcad wrote:
Qatarab wrote:Where's my torch? Time to burn some courts down.


Oh, you crazy Muslim you!

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Strategion
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Postby Strategion » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:22 am

Sun Aut Ex wrote:Note the bolded. They literally have no evidence that a crime has been commited. All I can think of is the softball episode of The Simpsons, where Steve Sax is arrested by the Springfield police ("You're from New York, aren't you Sax? There's a lot of unsolved murders in New York. But you wouldn't know anything about that, would you Steve?").

I have access to more evidence from the case judgments (thank you university database!). Here we go:

-Keli Lane told the police officer eight “different” versions about what happened to Tegan. The Crown only relied on 3 of those as consciousness of guilt lies. In relation to the other “versions”, the Crown relied on them as damaging the credibility of the accused.

-Keli Lane provided false details to staff at Ryde Hospital concerning her background and family situation. The Crown case was that these lies were designed to prevent her family and friends learning her true situation.

-Two of her other children were adopted out. In each case, the pregnancy, the birth and adoption occurred without the knowledge of her family and friends. The Crown suggested that the evidence of circumstances surrounding these events may be used by the jury, not merely as background, but as providing evidence of a tendency or a state of mind on the part of the accused to adopt “long-term solutions” in circumstances where she was unwilling to undertake the care and custody of a child. The Crown argued that the tendency or state of mind thus revealed would be inconsistent with any short-term arrangement such as handing the child over to its natural father, thereby facilitating some type of informal adoption process.
(This reasoning is as bit shaky, but the judge noted this and indicated that its use should be substantially circumscribed by the giving of careful and thorough directions to the jury to dispel any possibility of impermissible or unfairly prejudicial reasoning).

-The Crown relied on certain conduct of the accused as also pointing to her guilt. The first aspect of this conduct was said to be her reluctance to return a telephone call to Detective Gaut on 6th January 2004, and her general disinterest in the police investigation. The Crown argued that her conduct in this regard was such that the jury could conclude that it is explicable only on the basis that the accused knew that the natural father (that is, Andrew Morris/Norris) would never be found and that she knew that Tegan would never be found.

-The Crown intercepted phone calls that she made and suggested that certain individual comments or statements made during the conversations are capable of indicating a state of mind on the part of the accused that suggests she knew that Morris/Norris and Tegan would never be found.

-Crown's case was that accused had a number of motives to kill her baby Tegan and the opportunity to kill Tegan between noon and 3 pm on 14 September, and that otherwise the period of three hours is unexplained, unaccounted for.

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New Chalcedon
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Postby New Chalcedon » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:36 am

Lacadaemon wrote:
Anemos Major wrote:What happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'?


I gather there was a trial before sentencing, so...


Speaking as the housemate of a man who was convicted of a crime because he was large and scary-looking (several prosecution witnesses contradicted each other on basic elements of the story), "there was a trial" is no guarantee of any form of justice being done. The fact that we believe it to be such is because we don't like to believe that 12 of our fellow adult humans could be idiots all at once. Given that in any election, at least (depending upon your views) 40% of the adult voting humans are idiots through the course of a single day, I wonder where this confidence comes from, myself.
Last edited by New Chalcedon on Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sun Aut Ex
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Postby Sun Aut Ex » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:41 am

To be honest, I would rather that jury NOT be allowed to convene, and instead have to make up their own minds, with the cumulative being the verdict. It's been proven that people get dumber in groups.
Strykyh wrote:I wasn't trying to be intelligent.

Keronians wrote:
So you think it's ok to waste valuable police time and resources to pander to minority superstitions?

"All available officers, report downtown, armed suspected firing wildly into the public."
"I'll be about ten minutes, I have to go to ID a Muslim woman."


Yes.

Unless of course it's not OK for a woman to ask for a female to ask for a female officer to carry out body checks. In which case, the answer would be no.

"All available officers, report downtown, armed suspected firing wildly into the public."
"I'll be about then minutes, I have to go to carry out a body check on a woman."

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Rambhutan
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Postby Rambhutan » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:56 am

Free condoms are such a good idea.
Are we there yet?

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