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Our pollution has NO effect on the Environment...oh wait...

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Wilgrove
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Our pollution has NO effect on the Environment...oh wait...

Postby Wilgrove » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:03 pm

Ozone depletion over Arctic 'unprecedented' this winter
By the CNN Wire Staff
April 6, 2011 -- Updated 1708 GMT (0108 HKT)

(CNN) -- The depletion of the ozone layer over the Arctic region "has reached an unprecedented level," a loss of 40% from the beginning of the winter to late March, the U.N. weather agency said Tuesday.

The World Meteorological Organization blames the "record loss" on the "continuing presence of ozone-depleting substances in the atmosphere" and a "very cold winter in the stratosphere."

The ozone layer is the "shield that protects life on Earth from harmful levels of ultraviolet rays," the organization said.

"Even though this Arctic winter was warmer than average at ground level, it was colder in the stratosphere than for a normal Arctic winter," the agency said.

"Although the degree of Arctic ozone destruction in 2011 is unprecedented, it is not unexpected. Ozone scientists have foreseen that significant Arctic ozone loss is possible in the case of a cold and stable Arctic stratospheric winter."

The highest ozone losses previously recorded were about 30% over several winter seasons in the last two decades.

An international agreement -- the 1987 Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer -- has led to cuts in production of ozone-destroying chemicals.

"Without the Montreal Protocol, this year's ozone destruction would most likely have been worse. The slow recovery of the ozone layer is due to the fact that ozone-depleting substances stay in the atmosphere for several decades," the World Meteorological Organization said.


Ozone-depleting substances include chlorofluorocarbons and halons, once present in refrigerators, spray cans and fire extinguishers and which have been phased out under the 1987 Montreal Protocol.

Ultraviolet rays "have been linked to skin cancer, cataracts and damage to the human immune system. Some crops and forms of marine life can also suffer adverse effects," the U.N. agency said.

"The Arctic stratosphere continues to be vulnerable to ozone destruction caused by ozone-depleting substances linked to human activities," said Michel Jarraud, the agency's secretary-general.

"The degree of ozone loss experienced in any particular winter depends on the meteorological conditions. The 2011 ozone loss shows that we have to remain vigilant and keep a close eye on the situation in the Arctic in the coming years," he said.

The meteorological conditions in the Arctic vary every year. "Some Arctic winters experience almost no ozone loss, whereas cold stratospheric temperatures in the Arctic lasting beyond the polar night can occasionally lead to substantial ozone loss," the agency said.


Link

So, with real time and measurable effect of our ozone damaging chemicals and pollutants is doing to the Ozone, that layer of gas that protects us from the son, how can anyone deny that we are harming our Earth? How can people read stuff like this, and still be in denial that we are damaging the environment?

I dunno, but I do know that without an atmosphere, life on Earth wouldn't exist.

Thoughts?

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Aescentia
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Postby Aescentia » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:05 pm

As something of an anti-environmentalist, I STILL and THOROUGHLY believe that we're fucking over the Earth, and we should probably stop that. However, I am still doubtful of global warming.
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Wilgrove
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Postby Wilgrove » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:08 pm

Aescentia wrote:As something of an anti-environmentalist, I STILL and THOROUGHLY believe that we're fucking over the Earth, and we should probably stop that. However, I am still doubtful of global warming.


If our pollution is destroying the Ozone, then why wouldn't it also contribute to a higher rate of warming of the Earth?

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SaintB
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Postby SaintB » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:09 pm

Ozone shmozone all we need is more sunscreen! Start buying stock in Coppertone kiddies, its gonna be worth more than gold!
Last edited by SaintB on Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:22 pm

I figured we'd mostly stopped dicking around with things that destroy the ozone layer...
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Wilgrove
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Postby Wilgrove » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:24 pm

Vetalia wrote:I figured we'd mostly stopped dicking around with things that destroy the ozone layer...


There's still coal powered power plants, there's cars that still burn crude oil that we pump from the ground, we still have factories that pump out smog. We are a loooonnnngggggg way from stopping pollution that harms the ozone.

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Kalibarr
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Postby Kalibarr » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:25 pm

I've never understood the whole "global warming is a conspiracy" thing

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Wilgrove
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Postby Wilgrove » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:27 pm

Kalibarr wrote:I've never understood the whole "global warming is a conspiracy" thing


It's mainly done by the same people who are against regulating stuff (if not outright ban them) that harms our environment. They connect environment protection with BIG GUBERMENT, AND SOCIAL-NAZI-OMMUNISM!

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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:27 pm

Wilgrove wrote:There's still coal powered power plants, there's cars that still burn crude oil that we pump from the ground, we still have factories that pump out smog. We are a loooonnnngggggg way from stopping pollution that harms the ozone.


I was thinking we'd dealt with the really bad boys back in the 70's but it's reassuring to know profound environmental stupidity continues apace.
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Wilgrove
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Postby Wilgrove » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:28 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:There's still coal powered power plants, there's cars that still burn crude oil that we pump from the ground, we still have factories that pump out smog. We are a loooonnnngggggg way from stopping pollution that harms the ozone.


I was thinking we'd dealt with the really bad boys back in the 70's but it's reassuring to know profound environmental stupidity continues apace.


Hey, why think long term environmental protection when there's short term profits to be made?

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Umbra Ac Silentium
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Postby Umbra Ac Silentium » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:29 pm

Yay, we're all going to either burn a fiery death as the atmosphere disappears or be drowned under rising seas or some new super bug, or... :lol:

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The Holy Twig
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Postby The Holy Twig » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:32 pm

Wilgrove wrote:
Kalibarr wrote:I've never understood the whole "global warming is a conspiracy" thing


It's mainly done by the same people who are against regulating stuff (if not outright ban them) that harms our environment. They connect environment protection with BIG GUBERMENT, AND SOCIAL-NAZI-OMMUNISM!


You know what that's called?
That's called a slippery slope logical fallacy. Therefore you automatically lose this debate.
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Wilgrove
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Postby Wilgrove » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:34 pm

The Holy Twig wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:
It's mainly done by the same people who are against regulating stuff (if not outright ban them) that harms our environment. They connect environment protection with BIG GUBERMENT, AND SOCIAL-NAZI-OMMUNISM!


You know what that's called?
That's called a slippery slope logical fallacy. Therefore you automatically lose this debate.


How is that a slippery slope logic fallacy?

Also, I didn't know I could win. What do I get if I win? Do I get a new puppy, or money?

I want the puppy.
Last edited by Wilgrove on Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lacadaemon
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Postby Lacadaemon » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:58 pm

Doubtless places like China and the rest spewing shit tonnes of halocarbons into the atmos.

Thus the futility of trying anything really.
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Postby Norstal » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:01 pm

Wilgrove wrote:
Aescentia wrote:As something of an anti-environmentalist, I STILL and THOROUGHLY believe that we're fucking over the Earth, and we should probably stop that. However, I am still doubtful of global warming.


If our pollution is destroying the Ozone, then why wouldn't it also contribute to a higher rate of warming of the Earth?

I, for one, believe in a climate change, but not global warming specifically. Maybe that's what the poster is saying.

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The Imperial Shard
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Postby The Imperial Shard » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:55 am

Lacadaemon wrote:Doubtless places like China and the rest spewing shit tonnes of halocarbons into the atmos.

Thus the futility of trying anything really.


I agree. We should all just lie down and put paper bags over our heads.
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2 fort
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Postby 2 fort » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:50 am

Nature is weak baby who gets beat by leetle polution

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Florin and Atlantis
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Postby Florin and Atlantis » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:57 am

Our pollution does have an effect on the environment. I think we should stop using products in mass that damage it and stop dumping waste etc etc. But companies that do these things are more concerned with profit.

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Tubbsalot
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Postby Tubbsalot » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:59 am

I'm going to pretend that "NO" is a pun on the gaseous pollutant nitric oxide, NO.

Wilgrove wrote:If our pollution is destroying the Ozone, then why wouldn't it also contribute to a higher rate of warming of the Earth?

To a small extent, yes, but excess heat is simply radiated off again and the change is very minor. To really affect the average heat on Earth you need to move the equilibrium point (that's greenhouse gases' job). Destruction of the ozone layer is mainly a problem because it damages organic material, resulting in cancer.

Vetalia wrote:I figured we'd mostly stopped dicking around with things that destroy the ozone layer...

We have. Sadly such chemicals take a rather long time to break down, so they'll keep worrying away at the ozone layer for many decades to come. We are still producing ozone-destroying chemicals, but they're not nearly as bad as things like CFCs.

Well, that and developing nations have been given some time to transfer over to newer chemicals. They're not nearly as bad as the developed world was though.

The Imperial Shard wrote:I agree. We should all just lie down and put paper bags over our heads.

I can't see any problem with this course of action.
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Florin and Atlantis
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Postby Florin and Atlantis » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:02 am

Tubbsalot wrote:I'm going to pretend that "NO" is a pun on the gaseous pollutant nitric oxide, NO.

Wilgrove wrote:If our pollution is destroying the Ozone, then why wouldn't it also contribute to a higher rate of warming of the Earth?

To a small extent, yes, but excess heat is simply radiated off again and the change is very minor. To really affect the average heat on Earth you need to move the equilibrium point (that's greenhouse gases' job). Destruction of the ozone layer is mainly a problem because it damages organic material, resulting in cancer.

Vetalia wrote:I figured we'd mostly stopped dicking around with things that destroy the ozone layer...

We have. Sadly such chemicals take a rather long time to break down, so they'll keep worrying away at the ozone layer for many decades to come. We are still producing ozone-destroying chemicals, but they're not nearly as bad as things like CFCs.

Well, that and developing nations have been given some time to transfer over to newer chemicals. They're not nearly as bad as the developed world was though.

The Imperial Shard wrote:I agree. We should all just lie down and put paper bags over our heads.

I can't see any problem with this course of action.


Then go do it?

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Tekania
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Postby Tekania » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:03 am

SaintB wrote:Ozone shmozone all we need is more sunscreen! Start buying stock in Coppertone kiddies, its gonna be worth more than gold!


We're poised and ready for the next generation of sunscreens...
Such heroic nonsense!

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Los Cabreddes
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Postby Los Cabreddes » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:42 am

The question is not yes or no but how much.
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Mostly armless
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Postby Mostly armless » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:48 am

The Imperial Shard wrote:I agree. We should all just lie down and put paper bags over our heads.

That won't help much against the UV rays, we'd need to lie down inside and cover ourselves in paperbags....
*nods*
Problem solved!
Last edited by Mostly armless on Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Sdaeriji
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Postby Sdaeriji » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:50 am

something something lots of snow this winter

Just getting that out of the way.
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Chumblywumbly
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Postby Chumblywumbly » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:51 am

Aescentia wrote:As something of an anti-environmentalist, I STILL and THOROUGHLY believe that we're fucking over the Earth, and we should probably stop that.

Then I am afraid you are an environmentalist.
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