Communism: Persuade Me

[Great Nepal]

Indeed.

So?

Attempt of emotional argument to sway Christians in side of communism?

[Terra Agora]

It is obvious Sibirsky is convinced on his Capitalist mindset. There is no effort in trying to convert him that could be otherwise named wasteful. I still retain my views and you have only succeeded in moderately annoying me.

I respect some of your opinions, but we still have some infinitely stark, contrasting views. That, and the Capitalist Butt-Buddy show is starting to arrive. To the Commie-Mobile!

[Wamitoria]

It is obvious Sibirsky is convinced on his Capitalist mindset. There is no effort in trying to convert him that could be otherwise named wasteful. I still retain my views and you have only succeeded in moderately annoying me.

I respect some of your opinions, but we still have some infinitely stark, contrasting views. That, and the Capitalist Butt-Buddy show is starting to arrive. To the Commie-Mobile!

You weren't supposed to show up!

Now you've proved him correct.

[The Southron Nation]

What people don't realize, Jesus was a Socialist

No he wasn't.

[Terra Agora]

You weren't supposed to show up!

Now you've proved him correct.

Im not a "capitalist".

[The Grand Ocean]

What people don't realize, Jesus was a Socialist

No he wasn't.

Yeah he was:

"Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." - Matthew 19-24

"Do not store up your treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal; but store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart is also." - Matthew 6:19-21

"No man can serve two masters. For a slave will either love the one and hate the other, or be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth." - Matthew 6:24

"Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." - Matthew 19:21

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'" - Matthew 25:34-40

"The love of money is the root of all evil."" - Timothy 1:6-10

[Wamitoria]

What people don't realize, Jesus was a Socialist

No he wasn't.

He was an ascetic and by modern standards, a collectivist, though.

[Distruzio]

Yeah he was:

"Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." - Matthew 19-24

"Do not store up your treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal; but store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart is also." - Matthew 6:19-21

"No man can serve two masters. For a slave will either love the one and hate the other, or be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth." - Matthew 6:24

"Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." - Matthew 19:21

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'" - Matthew 25:34-40

"The love of money is the root of all evil."" - Timothy 1:6-10

See Eisegesis for an explanation of this theological armchair nonsense.

Then read this Matthew 20 1-15.

In truth, you are making the same mistake other more liberally inclined folks make when they read the gospels. You assume that b/c Jesus was a kind hearted man, that he was socialist. What is socialism but the application of subjective moralism to objective observations? Instead of asking, what would jesus redistribute, you ask, who would Jesus help? The two are not the same question. When you cherry pick, as you do, you ignore the entire OT andSt. Paul. You forget St. Pauls definition of the gov't and replace it with your own nanny provider.

Honestly, I'm surprised you didn't vomit out the same inane childish nonsense I usually hear regarding Acts 5. Usually I have to suffer this to mean that Peter railed against the saving of funds for ones own pleasure. Instead, the child reading the chapter neglected to realize that the man was condemned for lying about what was donated to the Church. Kudos to you for not wasting your breath on this one!

The truth is that you, and others who believe this hogwash, forget this and this. The Bible is clear about the folly of living a life focused solely on acquiring riches and the spiritual emptiness that results. However, it is also clear on the dangerous folly of looking to the state as a messiah.

[Distruzio]

No he wasn't.

He was an ascetic and by modern standards, a collectivist, though.

See the above. He wasn't a collectivist.

[Sibirsky]

It is obvious Sibirsky is convinced on his Capitalist mindset. There is no effort in trying to convert him that could be otherwise named wasteful. I still retain my views and you have only succeeded in moderately annoying me.

I respect some of your opinions, but we still have some infinitely stark, contrasting views. That, and the Capitalist Butt-Buddy show is starting to arrive. To the Commie-Mobile!

The difference between me and you, is I actually spent time in a socialist economy and have seen it's massive inefficiencies. I have also spent time in a capitalist economy and can easily tell that it's many, many times more efficient. It's also more just, and not coercive.

Yes, I am convinced. Reality convinced me.

[Wamitoria]

It is obvious Sibirsky is convinced on his Capitalist mindset. There is no effort in trying to convert him that could be otherwise named wasteful. I still retain my views and you have only succeeded in moderately annoying me.

I respect some of your opinions, but we still have some infinitely stark, contrasting views. That, and the Capitalist Butt-Buddy show is starting to arrive. To the Commie-Mobile!

The difference between me and you, is I actually spent time in a socialist economy and have seen it's massive inefficiencies. I have also spent time in a capitalist economy and can easily tell that it's many, many times more efficient. It's also more just, and not coercive.

Yes, I am convinced. Reality convinced me.

So, you're a male Ayn Rand?

[Distruzio]

The difference between me and you, is I actually spent time in a socialist economy and have seen it's massive inefficiencies. I have also spent time in a capitalist economy and can easily tell that it's many, many times more efficient. It's also more just, and not coercive.

Yes, I am convinced. Reality convinced me.

So, you're a male Ayn Rand?

Are his rants that annoying? I find them rather refreshing. She sort of... abused my eyes... I couldn't take it.

[Terra Agora]

The difference between me and you, is I actually spent time in a socialist economy and have seen it's massive inefficiencies. I have also spent time in a capitalist economy and can easily tell that it's many, many times more efficient. It's also more just, and not coercive.

Yes, I am convinced. Reality convinced me.

So, you're a male Ayn Rand?

Im going to be totally honest. Thats what I said to him when I first found out he was from the USSR. No disrespect to either Rand or Sibirsky though.

[Terra Agora]

So, you're a male Ayn Rand?

Are his rants that annoying? I find them rather refreshing. She sort of... abused my eyes... I couldn't take it.

She was the one who introduced me to capitalism per se.

[The Grand Ocean]

Yeah he was:

"Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." - Matthew 19-24

"Do not store up your treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal; but store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart is also." - Matthew 6:19-21

"No man can serve two masters. For a slave will either love the one and hate the other, or be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth." - Matthew 6:24

"Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." - Matthew 19:21

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'" - Matthew 25:34-40

"The love of money is the root of all evil."" - Timothy 1:6-10

See Eisegesis for an explanation of this theological armchair nonsense.

Then read this Matthew 20 1-15.

In truth, you are making the same mistake other more liberally inclined folks make when they read the gospels. You assume that b/c Jesus was a kind hearted man, that he was socialist. What is socialism but the application of subjective moralism to objective observations? Instead of asking, what would jesus redistribute, you ask, who would Jesus help? The two are not the same question. When you cherry pick, as you do, you ignore the entire OT andSt. Paul. You forget St. Pauls definition of the gov't and replace it with your own nanny provider.

Honestly, I'm surprised you didn't vomit out the same inane childish nonsense I usually hear regarding Acts 5. Usually I have to suffer this to mean that Peter railed against the saving of funds for ones own pleasure. Instead, the child reading the chapter neglected to realize that the man was condemned for lying about what was donated to the Church. Kudos to you for not wasting your breath on this one!

The truth is that you, and others who believe this hogwash, forget this and this. The Bible is clear about the folly of living a life focused solely on acquiring riches and the spiritual emptiness that results. However, it is also clear on the dangerous folly of looking to the state as a messiah.

You stereotypically assume that socialism means that people will become lazy. I offer you a... story I guess.

Say we have large farm with other farmers working together, 4 of the five farmers work hard for a good harvest, the fifth does nothing. All five are paid, but the fifth's "section" doesn't do as well as the other four. The other four have food AND surplus money because they don't have to buy food and they can use that money for luxuries (going to the bar, etc). The fifth however, has to spend his money to eat because he did not produce enough food. He can survive, fairly well, but he can't enjoy it.

Also: Matthew 25:31-46 41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life”.

James 2:1-7

1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

Oh and honestly, I don't vomit, I can be mature, I expect the same from you.

[Distruzio]

Are his rants that annoying? I find them rather refreshing. She sort of... abused my eyes... I couldn't take it.

She was the one who introduced me to capitalism per se.

I never picked her up until after I read Human Action. Never even heard of her until a local GOP congressman got pissed when I corrected him at a party meeting and called me a Randroid. I ran right out and bought Atlas Shrugged. 5 years later and I still can't finish it. *head-desk* She hurts my mind!!!

[Vetalia]

The difference between me and you, is I actually spent time in a socialist economy and have seen it's massive inefficiencies. I have also spent time in a capitalist economy and can easily tell that it's many, many times more efficient. It's also more just, and not coercive.

Yes, I am convinced. Reality convinced me.

Reality is a bitch. But then again, even an outsider with no experience can look at the socialist economies of the world to see which system is better...debating the merits of socialism vs. capitalism might have been feasible in 1961, but definitely not 2011.

[Sibirsky]

So, you're a male Ayn Rand?

Im going to be totally honest. Thats what I said to him when I first found out he was from the USSR. No disrespect to either Rand or Sibirsky though.

None taken. Although I am far better looking than her.

[Terra Agora]

She was the one who introduced me to capitalism per se.

I never picked her up until after I read Human Action. Never even heard of her until a local GOP congressman got pissed when I corrected him at a party meeting and called me a Randroid. I ran right out and bought Atlas Shrugged. 5 years later and I still can't finish it. *head-desk* She hurts my mind!!!

I still never finished Human Action. Though I blame that on my short attention span. I more then likely have ADD haha

I found out about laissez faire when I read "The Virtue of Selfishness" After that I read "The Ego and Its Own" Which influenced me and still does unlike Rand who I dont really care for anymore. Though her book never really influenced me even when I did like her. (which wasn't that long might I add)

[Sibirsky]

The difference between me and you, is I actually spent time in a socialist economy and have seen it's massive inefficiencies. I have also spent time in a capitalist economy and can easily tell that it's many, many times more efficient. It's also more just, and not coercive.

Yes, I am convinced. Reality convinced me.

Reality is a bitch. But then again, even an outsider with no experience can look at the socialist economies of the world to see which system is better...debating the merits of socialism vs. capitalism might have been feasible in 1961, but definitely not 2011.

Very, very true.

[Terra Agora]

Im going to be totally honest. Thats what I said to him when I first found out he was from the USSR. No disrespect to either Rand or Sibirsky though.

None taken. Although I am far better looking than her.

Oh I highly doubt that! I mean common how can you not want this sexy bod?

[Sibirsky]

None taken. Although I am far better looking than her.

Oh I highly doubt that! I mean common how can you not want this sexy bod?

[Valtieres]

Sibirsky, your reality is far different from that of millions of Russians. From all the ones I've known, none of them admire or even acknowledge ANY benefits that they have recieved from working as Capitalist slaves.

Of course, however, you are inclined to disagree, pull out some Pro-Capitalist rhetoric, and wisp away until I comment.

Figure is, you are one person on the internet. Insignificant in the face of six billion people. To consider yourself a realist in the face of millions of opinions far more sophisticated and mature is anything but exceptionally pathetic.


Enjoy your E-Dick Waving. I still couldn't possibly care. What you've managed to do in RL is annoy me, waste your time, and dick-wave the Pro-Capitalist banner while failing to address the fact that my relative has an education equal to that of a college honors algebra professor, who grew up a piss-in-the-bucket farmer, in one of the worlds most corrupt dictatorships at the time.

If I had my two cents, I'd say that your family abandoned Russia and stalked off into the U.S, apathetic and admirant of a system that is causing millions to suffer. More disgusting the realizational.

In any case, I don't care for your opinion, and I believe it is safe to say the world doesn't either.

[Terra Agora]

Sibirsky, your reality is far different from that of millions of Russians. From all the ones I've known, none of them admire or even acknowledge ANY benefits that they have recieved from working as Capitalist slaves.

Of course, however, you are inclined to disagree, pull out some Pro-Capitalist rhetoric, and wisp away until I comment.

Figure is, you are one person on the internet. Insignificant in the face of six billion people. To consider yourself a realist in the face of millions of opinions far more sophisticated and mature is anything but exceptionally pathetic.


Enjoy your E-Dick Waving. I still couldn't possibly care. What you've managed to do in RL is annoy me, waste your time, and dick-wave the Pro-Capitalist banner while failing to address the fact that my relative has an education equal to that of a college honors algebra professor, who grew up a piss-in-the-bucket farmer, in one of the worlds most corrupt dictatorships at the time.

If I had my two cents, I'd say that your family abandoned Russian and stalked off into the U.S, apathetic and admirant of a system that is causing millions to suffer. More disgusting the realizational.

In any case, I don't care for your opinion, and I believe it is safe to say the world doesn't either.

[Distruzio]

You stereotypically assume that socialism means that people will become lazy. I offer you a... story I guess.

Say we have large farm with other farmers working together, 4 of the five farmers work hard for a good harvest, the fifth does nothing. All five are paid, but the fifth's "section" doesn't do as well as the other four. The other four have food AND surplus money because they don't have to buy food and they can use that money for luxuries (going to the bar, etc). The fifth however, has to spend his money to eat because he did not produce enough food. He can survive, fairly well, but he can't enjoy it.

Also: Matthew 25:31-46 41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life”.

James 2:1-7

1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

Oh and honestly, I don't vomit, I can be mature, I expect the same from you.

Matthew 25:14-30

14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,[a] each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’

21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’

23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’

26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Text proofing amounts to nothing. You can continue this practice of Eisigesis all you like and I can throw texts right back at you.

The truth is that Jesus cannot be boxed in. Sometimes he offends liberal sensibilities, and other times he offends conservative sensibilities. He wasn't socialist. I'm sorry, but nothing you can cite proves it at all b/c you are ignoring several key texts in making the case for your hypothesis. You are quite simply, incorrect.