Communism: Persuade Me

[The Southron Nation]

Property rights over land are pathetic. They are human concepts and are useless, other than to seperate us. I wouldn't mind inviting a starving couple if they needed food. Your concept of Property is the "Politcally Correct" version. Hence, I ignore such an arguement.

[Valtieres]

There are obvious methods on how to purify it. Water was unpurified and unrefined back in the times of the Neanderthals, and I still see we are in existence. Industrial methods only further simplify it, and a basic education could help MANY people.

And that costs money. Equipment and labor are required for it. As Hydesland already explained.

Trading. Basic Trading. Work alongside others to construct the house, and if I have the necessary materials, then I should go unchallenged. Money. Another annoying concept.

If I can assemble my own home without the plumbing, and the proper conditions, why the fuck do I have to suffer taxation for it? If I want my house in a simplistic manner, I doubt the benefit in taxing me over undeveloped land. Money? Great. Where will that likely circulate? Some idiot's wallet, where it will never be spent.

[Sibirsky]

And that costs money. Equipment and labor are required for it. As Hydesland already explained.

Trading. Basic Trading. Work alongside others to construct the house, and if I have the necessary materials, then I should go unchallenged. Money. Another annoying concept.

If I can assemble my own home without the plumbing, and the proper conditions, why the fuck do I have to suffer taxation for it? If I want my house in a simplistic manner, I doubt the benefit in taxing me over undeveloped land. Money? Great. Where will that likely circulate? Some idiot's wallet, where it will never be spent.

Taxation is not a capitalist concept.

Money is a convenient tool for a unit of account, store of value and most importantly a medium of exchange.

[Great Nepal]

You have a right to housing? Most nations do have programs for this, and views, even amongst capitalist differ. Some would say you do not have a right to housing, because housing must be build at the expense of someone else, if you don't pay for it yourself.

The first part I agree on. I'd be totally willing to build my own house.

Then please go and do so.

Just don't tax my ass out the wazoo because I did so.

I was unaware that they tax you any more for building house (not sure though: but I highly doubt it).

The problem is that the modern incarnation of Capitalism VIOLATES that tenet. The very crap it preaches is violated constantly. I insure you Adam Smith would be horrified to see what PROPER Capitalism has turned into. State Capitalism, with no restraints.

Modern version of capitalism? Forgive me but I was unaware of existence of "Modern version of capitalism" considring most of western nations seem to be very soft socialist.

[Valtieres]

There are obvious methods on how to purify it. Water was unpurified and unrefined back in the times of the Neanderthals, and I still see we are in existence. Industrial methods only further simplify it, and a basic education could help MANY people.

And that costs money. Equipment and labor are required for it. As Hydesland already explained.

I don't see the harm in educating people on the proper methods for water purification. Basic training is all that's necessary, and textbook learning is useless. Photographic analysis is far more effective.

You seem to rely on a more " Enterprise into the Unknown " method, which consists of marketing.

I would be all for exchanging money for goods and knowledge, but when a certain country ruins and destroys a formerly vibrant, formerly Capitalist culture, I find it revolting that the mess is not cleaned up, and the people have their culture firmly reinstated.

No. Instead, we have fuck-ups like Rhodesia and Sierra Leone.

[North Korea and Japan]

Communism's faults: It's endgoal is an anarchist society.

Communism doesn't make an anarchist society, it makes a world that needs nor government. We have government because people have to be controlled. The communistic society is one in which the people are all able to provide just enough for themselves, to be happy, and live comfortably. If the only way to comfort is anarchy, then why not.

[Conserative Morality]

Communism doesn't make an anarchist society, it makes a world that needs nor government. We have government because people have to be controlled. The communistic society is one in which the people are all able to provide just enough for themselves, to be happy, and live comfortably. If the only way to comfort is anarchy, then why not.

Government is a tool for progress. And progress does not stop for comfort nor happiness.

[Valtieres]

Trading. Basic Trading. Work alongside others to construct the house, and if I have the necessary materials, then I should go unchallenged. Money. Another annoying concept.

If I can assemble my own home without the plumbing, and the proper conditions, why the fuck do I have to suffer taxation for it? If I want my house in a simplistic manner, I doubt the benefit in taxing me over undeveloped land. Money? Great. Where will that likely circulate? Some idiot's wallet, where it will never be spent.

Taxation is not a capitalist concept.

Money is a convenient tool for a unit of account, store of value and most importantly a medium of exchange.

Never said it was a Capitalist concept. I do state that is a massively flawed system under the current conditions.

Money is convenient, but it is still a "Human" concept. We need to take a more naturalistic approach to exchange, preferentially bartering.

[Great Nepal]

Trading. Basic Trading. Work alongside others to construct the house, and if I have the necessary materials, then I should go unchallenged. Money. Another annoying concept.

So you prefer to carry 100 kg of wood few hundred miles so that you can trade it for 400 of bricks rather than going to your local DIY shop and buying 400 bricks for $40?

If I can assemble my own home without the plumbing, and the proper conditions, why the fuck do I have to suffer taxation for it? If I want my house in a simplistic manner, I doubt the benefit in taxing me over undeveloped land. Money? Great. Where will that likely circulate? Some idiot's wallet, where it will never be spent.

Again, because you enjoy society's constructs which take money to fund and maintain? (not to mention, taxation is not a concept of pure capitalism: but personally I think that is going too far, too fast in current situation)

[Terra Agora]

Distruzio, this is a bit overdue, but welcome to NSG. We appreciate your input. Keep up the good work.

Distruzio = Southron Nation

[Terra Agora]

Property rights over land are pathetic. They are human concepts and are useless, other than to seperate us. I wouldn't mind inviting a starving couple if they needed food. Your concept of Property is the "Politcally Correct" version. Hence, I ignore such an arguement.

I lol'd at his statement.

[Conserative Morality]

Never said it was a Capitalist concept. I do state that is a massively flawed system under the current conditions.

Money is convenient, but it is still a "Human" concept. We need to take a more naturalistic approach to exchange, preferentially bartering.

Barter is no more natural than currency.

A spear may be less advanced than a gun, but it is no less artificial for that.

[Great Nepal]

The communistic society is one in which the people are all able to provide just enough for themselves, to be happy, and live comfortably.

What if I want to be able to do more than just eat twice a day? Because I want a lot more than that: and I am pretty certain most people do too.

[Valtieres]

Trading. Basic Trading. Work alongside others to construct the house, and if I have the necessary materials, then I should go unchallenged. Money. Another annoying concept.

So you prefer to carry 100 kg of wood few hundred miles so that you can trade it for 400 of bricks rather than going to your local DIY shop and buying 400 bricks for $40?

If I can assemble my own home without the plumbing, and the proper conditions, why the fuck do I have to suffer taxation for it? If I want my house in a simplistic manner, I doubt the benefit in taxing me over undeveloped land. Money? Great. Where will that likely circulate? Some idiot's wallet, where it will never be spent.

Again, because you enjoy society's constructs which take money to fund and maintain? (not to mention, taxation is not a concept of pure capitalism: but personally I think that is going too far, too fast in current situation)

1. I am damn willing to lug the logs over 100 miles. It is called merit, of which many modern Capitalists and Imperialists don't seem to understand, but continously preach about. Staring at your computer monitor is far easier than engaging in REAL physical activity that allows yourself to feel proud over self-achievement, with a shared sense of pride towards the community that assisted in that respective accomplishment.

[Sibirsky]

And that costs money. Equipment and labor are required for it. As Hydesland already explained.

I don't see the harm in educating people on the proper methods for water purification. Basic training is all that's necessary, and textbook learning is useless. Photographic analysis is far more effective.

You seem to rely on a more " Enterprise into the Unknown " method, which consists of marketing.

I would be all for exchanging money for goods and knowledge, but when a certain country ruins and destroys a formerly vibrant, formerly Capitalist culture, I find it revolting that the mess is not cleaned up, and the people have their culture firmly reinstated.

No. Instead, we have fuck-ups like Rhodesia and Sierra Leone.

Education also costs money and requires labor. I have nod desire to learn homebuilding or water purification. Division of labor creates efficiency. I'll leave that up to those that are better at it and pay for their services.

What do Rhodesia and Sierra Leone have to do with anything?

[Valtieres]

The communistic society is one in which the people are all able to provide just enough for themselves, to be happy, and live comfortably.

What if I want to be able to do more than just eat twice a day? Because I want a lot more than that: and I am pretty certain most people do too.

You seem to assume what people want based on your hogwash consumerist mind. I know many people who couldn't possibly care on eating more than necessary. People in some countries eat more than necessary because of well-developed marketing for food that is the equivalent of dog shit with yummy paste.

[Great Nepal]

1. I am damn willing to lug the logs over 100 miles. It is called merit, of which many modern Capitalists and Imperialists don't seem to understand, but continously preach about. Staring at your computer monitor is far easier than engaging in REAL physical activity that allows yourself to feel proud over self-achievement, with a shared sense of pride towards the community that assisted in that respective accomplishment.

Good, because if you do a survey: I am roughly certain that over 80% would prefer to walk 10 minutes to DIY store and buy 400 bricks rather than walking few hours carrying large amount of logs for same purpose.

[Valtieres]

I don't see the harm in educating people on the proper methods for water purification. Basic training is all that's necessary, and textbook learning is useless. Photographic analysis is far more effective.

You seem to rely on a more " Enterprise into the Unknown " method, which consists of marketing.

I would be all for exchanging money for goods and knowledge, but when a certain country ruins and destroys a formerly vibrant, formerly Capitalist culture, I find it revolting that the mess is not cleaned up, and the people have their culture firmly reinstated.

No. Instead, we have fuck-ups like Rhodesia and Sierra Leone.

Education also costs money and requires labor. I have nod desire to learn homebuilding or water purification. Division of labor creates efficiency. I'll leave that up to those that are better at it and pay for their services.

What do Rhodesia and Sierra Leone have to do with anything?

I know it may seem random, but Rhodesia and Sierra Leone are stark examples of how Unrestrained Capitalism has ruined a formerly vibrant tribal culture. Yes, they may have been backwards, but just because some of us may have accelerated beyond that state does not make us morally just. It does especially not justify enslaving entire colonies and abusing cultural and educational potential. Henceforth, recompensation for the unfortunate who have not had their issues addressed sufficiently.

[New Alaxia]

I'm going to have to go with Valtieres on this one. Such things as money and property are only human inventions designed by the rich to keep them separate from the poor.In a communist society, these people are equal, no matter how big an advantage the rich previously had over the poor. The reasons communism failed are that it was never practiced in its purest form, equality and completely equal distribution, and that the countries that practiced it have not had the wealth to do so. countries that try communism are usually poor, so there is no wealth to distribute, causing everyone to be poor. therefore, if a rich country, like the united states, used the theory of communism, we may be able, at he expense of a couple of whining rich guys, finally achieve equality in this country.

[Sibirsky]

Taxation is not a capitalist concept.

Money is a convenient tool for a unit of account, store of value and most importantly a medium of exchange.

Never said it was a Capitalist concept. I do state that is a massively flawed system under the current conditions.

Money is convenient, but it is still a "Human" concept. We need to take a more naturalistic approach to exchange, preferentially bartering.

Bartering is grossly inefficient. Lets say I make chairs. So I have a bunch of chairs. To get something I want, lets say, apples, I have to find someone with apples, that also wants chairs. What if the only guy with apples does not want any chairs? I have to find someone else that does want chairs in exchange for whatever he or she has, and then hope whatever it is they give me is desirable to the apple guy. How would I transport these chairs? And why is this better than currency?

[Great Nepal]

What if I want to be able to do more than just eat twice a day? Because I want a lot more than that: and I am pretty certain most people do too.

You seem to assume what people want based on your hogwash consumerist mind. I know many people who couldn't possibly care on eating more than necessary. People in some countries eat more than necessary because of well-developed marketing for food that is the equivalent of dog shit with yummy paste.

Life is composed of more than eating.
You are using NS at the moment from (what I assume) a computer: is computer necessary? Is use of NS necessary? And I assume that you have a TV: is it necessary? I also assume that you have more than 2 pair of cloths: is that necessary? I could go on but I think that go the message across.

[The Southron Nation]

I lol'd at his statement.

I seriously thought... the basis for all of western legal theory is useless? For realz? It was like being asked if I knew that magnets were magical.

[Valtieres]

1. I am damn willing to lug the logs over 100 miles. It is called merit, of which many modern Capitalists and Imperialists don't seem to understand, but continously preach about. Staring at your computer monitor is far easier than engaging in REAL physical activity that allows yourself to feel proud over self-achievement, with a shared sense of pride towards the community that assisted in that respective accomplishment.

Good, because if you do a survey: I am roughly certain that over 80% would prefer to walk 10 minutes to DIY store and buy 400 bricks rather than walking few hours carrying large amount of logs for same purpose.

Your opinion and beliefs at this point = I don't care. Your debate warrants little attention. I stated my opinion to the OP, so if you feel offended, I don't care. Your opinion on human nature has caused me to ignore any potential arguements further on.

[Sibirsky]

Distruzio, this is a bit overdue, but welcome to NSG. We appreciate your input. Keep up the good work.

Distruzio = Southron Nation

Yeah got that now from his (or her as the case may be) sig. For what it's worth, I never welcomed Southron Nation either.

[Great Nepal]

And why is this better than currency?

Because it apparently gives you warm, fluffy feeling inside...