Creationism Vs. Evolution

[Unchecked Expansion]

We have found archaeological evidence for the city of Troy, and we know that many of the various Greek nations that were featured in the Iliad actually existed. Does this mean Athena and Zeus exist?

Until you can completely 100% disprove something, there's always a chance it's true.

So yes, it's plausible. Likely? No. But then again, I didn't say the God of Christianity was likely either. I simply said He was plausible.

No god is plausible. Gods, by definition, are supernatural and so implausible. Now,possible is another matter - gods are certainly possible, especially according to some definitions. But they aren't plausible

[Kubin]

both should be taught in school

And they should teach the karmic wheel, the Scientology version and why not just throw in the Norse Oden stuff as well then?

[DaWoad]

Until you can completely 100% disprove something, there's always a chance it's true.

So yes, it's plausible. Likely? No. But then again, I didn't say the God of Christianity was likely either. I simply said He was plausible.

You keep using that word. I'm pretty damn sure it doesn't mean what you think it means.
"Plausible" does not even remotely mean the same thing as "possible."

It's POSSIBLE the entire universe and everything in it is actually the fever dream of a cosmic bunny rabbit named Gus. The fact that this is POSSIBLE doesn't actually mean that it is, in any way plausible. In fact it's just as implausible as the claim that a God exists and that such an entity created the universe, or that the war that destroyed Troy was instigated by three goddesses having a pissing contest over which of them was the prettiest.

Frankly? The goddesses thing seems more plausible. I mean mortal woman have instigated fights over guys before (some of em pretty big). Nobody seems to have created a universe before.

[Deus Malum]

both should be taught in school

And they should teach the karmic wheel, the Scientology version and why not just throw in the Norse Oden stuff as well then?

To be fair, they actually do cover that last one alongside Greek mythology in world studies classes.

[Deus Malum]

You keep using that word. I'm pretty damn sure it doesn't mean what you think it means.
"Plausible" does not even remotely mean the same thing as "possible."

It's POSSIBLE the entire universe and everything in it is actually the fever dream of a cosmic bunny rabbit named Gus. The fact that this is POSSIBLE doesn't actually mean that it is, in any way plausible. In fact it's just as implausible as the claim that a God exists and that such an entity created the universe, or that the war that destroyed Troy was instigated by three goddesses having a pissing contest over which of them was the prettiest.

Frankly? The goddesses thing seems more plausible. I mean mortal woman have instigated fights over guys before (some of em pretty big). Nobody seems to have created a universe before.

True enough, but I meant all the other associated stuff. Paris being offered wisdom by Athena, power by Hera, or love by Aphrodite and picking love, declaring Aphrodite the fairest and being given Helen to run off with, who rather unfortunately happened to be married at the time and which caused a bit of a problem with a pissed off Hera and...you know this is starting to sound like a soap opera plot. You've got a point.

[The Chaos Heart]

Yes, you're both right. Sorry, I meant possible, not plausible. My mistake.

[The Alma Mater]

Ah. Well, that's no surprise...a lot of people are too ignorant to appreciate the importance of scientific thinking for the future of human society and human health, and a disproportionate percentage of them post on the internet.

The fact that Creationism itself is worthless is, of course, a crucial point that must be hammered home. Because that's the real point. Creationism is useless. It provides nothing, it helps with nothing, it does nothing. It is useless for society and does nothing for human health. THAT is why it doesn't belong in schools. It has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with school being a place to teach students how to think critically and analyze information and generate new, useful ideas based on the information they encounter.

^Ask anyone who has gotten out of jail and they'll tell you that faith is not worthless at all.

But faith pretending to be science ? Pretending to be something it is not ?
Is dishonesty truly so valuable we should teach it to our kids ?

[The Chaos Heart]

But Creationism is PART of religious teachings, and therefore, should (and is) taught in theology classes.

No - it is not. Creationism, as I said, is an artifical construct based on certain religious teachings, designed for the sole purpose of seeming scientific to the casual observer.
Parts of creationism are indeed religious teachings, but creationism itself is not.

I'm...afraid I don't follow your logic. Creationism is by definition the belief that everything was created by a deity or deities. Origiin stories have been part of every religion, and are not some "artificial concept" tossed into a religion, but have existed and are intertwined with the inner workings of the religion as a whole. So...can you explain? IS it a terminology thing?

[The Alma Mater]

No - it is not. Creationism, as I said, is an artifical construct based on certain religious teachings, designed for the sole purpose of seeming scientific to the casual observer.
Parts of creationism are indeed religious teachings, but creationism itself is not.

[color=#BF0000][i]I'm...afraid I don't follow your logic. Creationism is by definition the belief that everything was created by a deity or deities.

That is not the creationism this topic is about. We are talking about the creationism people wish to teach in schools, for which textbooks etc. were made.
That, like intelligent design, is not a general religious concept - but a construct to blur the disctinction between science and religion. It uses concepts like irreducible complexity and design inference and claims that objective examination of the facts in a scientific manner will lead to a conclusion that incidentally is identical to the one offered by the Bible.

A construct, based on lies and deception, which insults science and religion alike in other words.

[DaWoad]

Ah. Well, that's no surprise...a lot of people are too ignorant to appreciate the importance of scientific thinking for the future of human society and human health, and a disproportionate percentage of them post on the internet.

The fact that Creationism itself is worthless is, of course, a crucial point that must be hammered home. Because that's the real point. Creationism is useless. It provides nothing, it helps with nothing, it does nothing. It is useless for society and does nothing for human health. THAT is why it doesn't belong in schools. It has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with school being a place to teach students how to think critically and analyze information and generate new, useful ideas based on the information they encounter.

^Ask anyone who has gotten out of jail and they'll tell you that faith is not worthless at all.

sorry? we're meant to ask criminals about the importance of religion?

[Rambhutan]

I'm...afraid I don't follow your logic. Creationism is by definition the belief that everything was created by a deity or deities. Origiin stories have been part of every religion, and are not some "artificial concept" tossed into a religion, but have existed and are intertwined with the inner workings of the religion as a whole. So...can you explain? IS it a terminology thing?

Please can you stop with the hideous coloured and italicised text

[DaWoad]

sorry? we're meant to ask criminals about the importance of religion?

If it can help take nutjobs and get them to where they can function in society then it is not useless.

unless it can't? Unless it's simply a ploy to make it seem like they're a lesser risk due to a change in lifestyle. Moreover a vast majority of people in jail even per capita are religious.

[Anennki]

...? Uh, anyone heard of Dr. Kent Hovind? Also known as "Dr. Dino"? His seminars are taped and free. I believe his website is www.dr.Dino.com.

[Deus Malum]

If it can help take nutjobs and get them to where they can function in society then it is not useless.

unless it can't? Unless it's simply a ploy to make it seem like they're a lesser risk due to a change in lifestyle. Moreover a vast majority of people in jail even per capita are religious.

This is sort of the problem I have with 12 step programs as well. You're not actually tackling the psychological problems that lead to dependency, you're just switching one dependency, one crutch, for another. That the second crutch isn't as PHYSICALLY debilitating as the first doesn't negate the fact that this still leaves the core problems unresolved to keep popping back up again and again.

[Deus Malum]

...? Uh, anyone heard of Dr. Kent Hovind? Also known as "Dr. Dino"? His seminars are taped and free. I believe his website is http://www.dr.Dino.com.

Thanks. Needed the laugh.

[Ifreann]

...? Uh, anyone heard of Dr. Kent Hovind? Also known as "Dr. Dino"? His seminars are taped and free. I believe his website is http://www.dr.Dino.com.

Is he the guy that's in prison for tax evasion? Or am I thinking of someone else?

[Deus Malum]

...? Uh, anyone heard of Dr. Kent Hovind? Also known as "Dr. Dino"? His seminars are taped and free. I believe his website is http://www.dr.Dino.com.

Is he the guy that's in prison for tax evasion? Or am I thinking of someone else?

He's the guy that's in prison for tax evasion.

[The Chaos Heart]

[color=#BF0000][i]I'm...afraid I don't follow your logic. Creationism is by definition the belief that everything was created by a deity or deities.

That is not the creationism this topic is about. We are talking about the creationism people wish to teach in schools, for which textbooks etc. were made.
That, like intelligent design, is not a general religious concept - but a construct to blur the disctinction between science and religion.

How can you teach "Creationism"? It's...just a term. Creationism is creationism. It's not it's own religion. What "kind" of Creationism are you talking about? You can't just teach...Creationism. You have to teach the creation story for a particular religion. If you want to teach "Creationism", really, there's no more you can say than "Some people think that a deity or deities created all life". That's the only way you can teach that, without it becoming the teaching of a specific religion. :/

[Bottle]

It is useless for society and does nothing for human health. THAT is why it doesn't belong in schools..

Religious people would argue differently.

And when religious people stop using Comic Sans arguments, maybe there will be any reason to care about what they have to say.

[Farnhamia]

...? Uh, anyone heard of Dr. Kent Hovind? Also known as "Dr. Dino"? His seminars are taped and free. I believe his website is http://www.dr.Dino.com.

Kent Hovind, whose ideas have been described by the folks at AnswersInGenesis as "self-refuting"? Yeah, I've heard of him, so what? The man is a charlatan and is currently doing time for tax evasion.

[Bottle]

Ah. Well, that's no surprise...a lot of people are too ignorant to appreciate the importance of scientific thinking for the future of human society and human health, and a disproportionate percentage of them post on the internet.

The fact that Creationism itself is worthless is, of course, a crucial point that must be hammered home. Because that's the real point. Creationism is useless. It provides nothing, it helps with nothing, it does nothing. It is useless for society and does nothing for human health. THAT is why it doesn't belong in schools. It has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with school being a place to teach students how to think critically and analyze information and generate new, useful ideas based on the information they encounter.

^Ask anyone who has gotten out of jail and they'll tell you that faith is not worthless at all.

I've gotten out of jail.

Creationism is worthless.

PS: Leave the goal posts where you find them, thanks.

[The Chaos Heart]

Religious people would argue differently.

And when religious people stop using Comic Sans arguments, maybe there will be any reason to care about what they have to say.

If you're implying I'm religious, I would like to point out once again that I'm not, and am in fact, a nihilist. So...if you were implyign that, maybe you should stop assuming things? It makes you look very un-scientific and like a fool.

And seriously, can we not respect the opinions of other people? A lot of posters in this topic remind me of the Catholic Church in the Dark Ages in terms of how much hate they harbor for anyone who dare think differently than them. Irony much?

[Bottle]

^Ask anyone who has gotten out of jail and they'll tell you that faith is not worthless at all.

sorry? we're meant to ask criminals about the importance of religion?

Also a good point...should we really be basing our system of education on the opinions of people who not only break the law, but get caught?

[Ifreann]

Is he the guy that's in prison for tax evasion? Or am I thinking of someone else?

He's the guy that's in prison for tax evasion.

Hehe, it's always funny when men of god are found out to be terrible sinners.

[Awareum]

Maybe starting at middle school level there could be a selective mini-course not only about Creationism and evolution but about world religions, along with atheism, all of which would encompass these beliefs and much more. I think that has the potential to raise awareness and allow at a young age to help see where others are coming from.