US Army Damages Wonder of the Ancient World

[The South Islands]

*is not going to derail thread any more then it already is*

I can conclude that the US Army, again, acted irresponsibly and damaged a three thousand year old archeological site. But its not totally unexpected. After all, the Army isn't trained to respect historical artifacts.

You mean damaged a tourist trap?

Almost everything was replicas built by Saddam to attract tourists. Its like damaging one of those fake oldwest towns.

Perhaps the reconstruction was a bit over the top. However, the ruins were still there. The Army badly damaged those ruins.

[Brogavia]

*is not going to derail thread any more then it already is*

I can conclude that the US Army, again, acted irresponsibly and damaged a three thousand year old archeological site. But its not totally unexpected. After all, the Army isn't trained to respect historical artifacts.

You mean damaged a tourist trap?

Almost everything was replicas built by Saddam to attract tourists. Its like damaging one of those fake oldwest towns.

Perhaps the reconstruction was a bit over the top. However, the ruins were still there. The Army badly damaged those ruins.

A good portion was destroyed by the rebuilding. Not much left anyway. Odds are it was just a 5,000 year old parking lot...

[The South Islands]

Enough of it was still there for several American units to visit the ruins right after the invasion, but before the insurgency really started. Enough to interest an Ivy League educated Marine officer.

[Brogavia]

Enough of it was still there for several American units to visit the ruins right after the invasion, but before the insurgency really started. Enough to interest an Ivy League educated Marine officer.

Really? I would've thought it had been picked clean by the British, then Saddam.

[The South Islands]

Enough of it was still there for several American units to visit the ruins right after the invasion, but before the insurgency really started. Enough to interest an Ivy League educated Marine officer.

Really? I would've thought it had been picked clean by the British, then Saddam.

Aye, it is true. The unit even hired an Iraqi professor who specialized in the ruins to give them a tour.

[Brogavia]

Aye, it is true. The unit even hired an Iraqi professor who specialized in the ruins to give them a tour.

Huh. Everything they were going to find has been found anyway.

[The South Islands]

Aye, it is true. The unit even hired an Iraqi professor who specialized in the ruins to give them a tour.

Huh. Everything they were going to find has been found anyway.

Convenient excuse. I suppose we should just demolish the pyramids and Stonehenge too, because we surely know everything there is to know about them.

[Brogavia]

Aye, it is true. The unit even hired an Iraqi professor who specialized in the ruins to give them a tour.

Huh. Everything they were going to find has been found anyway.

Convenient excuse. I suppose we should just demolish the pyramids and Stonehenge too, because we surely know everything there is to know about them.

Sure.

[Bagwalon]

Ummm... no. No one knows where the hanging gardens are or if they even existed at all. This article is BS and people are just looking for something else to complain about.

Good first post, am I right?

[Brogavia]

Ummm... no. No one knows where the hanging gardens are or if they even existed at all. This article is BS and people are just looking for something else to complain about.

Good first post, am I right?

Very.

[The South Islands]

Ummm... no. No one knows where the hanging gardens are or if they even existed at all. This article is BS and people are just looking for something else to complain about.

Good first post, am I right?

The title may be a bit misleading, but the fact remains that the US Army callously damaged priceless ruins in their imperial conquest of Iraq.

[The Naacal]

It seems generally accepted that the hanging gardens existed (past tense), what is not known is exactly what they looked like, and where exactly they were located. Then add to the fact the area has been ravaged by many wars inbetween the fall of the Babylonian Empire and the Iraqi war...

Did the actual Ishtar Gate ever get found? Or was it all Saddam's fake?

[Muravyets]

I hope the US Army did this incredibly stupid thing by accident and not because they are as self-centered as some of the supposedly pro-war, love-the-troops posters "defending" them in this thread would make them seem, if only by association with said posters.

The CNN article is not a good description of what happened. I can guess that by the apparent gaps in its information. It doesn't give us a map of the general site to show us what UNESCO says the Army damaged, for one thing. It mentions that the western part of the site had already been damaged by local development. NOT by Saddam building his model palace. But it does not tell us how much had been preserved in its ruined state and whether it had been under active study or under plans for study before the war. However it does identify two specific parts, the Gate of Ishtar and the Processional Way, which apparently contained original architectural features that UNESCO says the Army damaged. That's original, not Saddam copies.

It further states that the Army put itself there to deter looters, which would suggest that the Army would argue that they did their best to minimize unavoidable damage, though CNN does not go into details.

However, the Army offering to pay for restoration of the damage they did indicates that the US Army values these archeological treasures far more than their rah-rah boys and fankids on the internet, where yesterday is ancient history and last week never happened, who seem to think that if they weren't alive during a particular time, that means it's not interesting. And who also seem to think that just saying something makes it true (destroyed by Saddam, anti-war propaganda).

So, no, UNESCO is not complaining about this just to spoil your GI Joe fun. And at this point, I don't think anyone needs anti-war propaganda. The war itself has already done a perfect job of turning us against it.

Finally, the only reason Iraq's archeological treasures were looted as outrageously as they were is because Bush's golden boy Don "Lean and Mean" Rumsfeld allowed looters to run rampant on some kind of idiotic notion that the Iraqis needed to "let off some steam" or something.

[Muravyets]

It seems generally accepted that the hanging gardens existed (past tense), what is not known is exactly what they looked like, and where exactly they were located. Then add to the fact the area has been ravaged by many wars inbetween the fall of the Babylonian Empire and the Iraqi war...

Did the actual Ishtar Gate ever get found? Or was it all Saddam's fake?

The article says nothing about this being the location of Saddam's copy.

[Sarkhaan]

Ummm... no. No one knows where the hanging gardens are or if they even existed at all. This article is BS and people are just looking for something else to complain about.

Good first post, am I right?

The title may be a bit misleading, but the fact remains that the US Army callously damaged priceless ruins in their imperial conquest of Iraq.

But if they aren't one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, then they clearly aren't important. I mean, what could they possibly tell us?

Next you're going to tell me that everyday crap like bowls and plates and other pottery is actually relevant.

[Greed and Death]

A quick look at an archeology website
suggest that they only found the foundations and bricks to the Ishtar gate in 1899.
http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/baby ... te-faq.htm

Furthermore, encyclopedia Brittanica
Reveals the remnants of the gate are current housed in a museum in Germany.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... shtar-Gate

With this I must conclude the CNN article is mistake and the army has damaged the replica built by Saddam.

case closed CNN pulled a Fox.

[The South Islands]

Ummm... no. No one knows where the hanging gardens are or if they even existed at all. This article is BS and people are just looking for something else to complain about.

Good first post, am I right?

The title may be a bit misleading, but the fact remains that the US Army callously damaged priceless ruins in their imperial conquest of Iraq.

But if they aren't one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, then they clearly aren't important. I mean, what could they possibly tell us?

Next you're going to tell me that everyday crap like bowls and plates and other pottery is actually relevant.

*tells you that everyday crap like bowls and plates and other pottery is actually relevant*

[Muravyets]

Ummm... no. No one knows where the hanging gardens are or if they even existed at all. This article is BS and people are just looking for something else to complain about.

Good first post, am I right?

The title may be a bit misleading, but the fact remains that the US Army callously damaged priceless ruins in their imperial conquest of Iraq.

But if they aren't one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, then they clearly aren't important. I mean, what could they possibly tell us?

Next you're going to tell me that everyday crap like bowls and plates and other pottery is actually relevant.

It's one of my favorite minor ironies that some people dismiss archeological sites as being just piles of garbage. They usually mean it demeaningly. Little do they usually know that the most valuable parts of sites actually are the garbage dumps, and it's the most valuable garbage on the planet.

[Greed and Death]

It seems generally accepted that the hanging gardens existed (past tense), what is not known is exactly what they looked like, and where exactly they were located. Then add to the fact the area has been ravaged by many wars inbetween the fall of the Babylonian Empire and the Iraqi war...

Did the actual Ishtar Gate ever get found? Or was it all Saddam's fake?

The article says nothing about this being the location of Saddam's copy.

No bu archeology websites say the original is in Germany and has been there since the 1930's.

[Katganistan]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/07/31/iraq.babylon.damage/index.html?eref=rss_us

I'm not sure what's worse, that they damaged it or that they were making it into a base in the first place.

Well, they don't bear ALL the blame -- local residents also damaged it -- but damn, that was stupid. And yeah, they should pay to rehabilitate it to the extent that the damage can be repaired.

[Sarkhaan]

The title may be a bit misleading, but the fact remains that the US Army callously damaged priceless ruins in their imperial conquest of Iraq.

But if they aren't one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, then they clearly aren't important. I mean, what could they possibly tell us?

Next you're going to tell me that everyday crap like bowls and plates and other pottery is actually relevant.

*tells you that everyday crap like bowls and plates and other pottery is actually relevant*

...



*stabs*

*for the second time this week.*

[Sarkhaan]

The title may be a bit misleading, but the fact remains that the US Army callously damaged priceless ruins in their imperial conquest of Iraq.

But if they aren't one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, then they clearly aren't important. I mean, what could they possibly tell us?

Next you're going to tell me that everyday crap like bowls and plates and other pottery is actually relevant.

It's one of my favorite minor ironies that some people dismiss archeological sites as being just piles of garbage. They usually mean it demeaningly. Little do they usually know that the most valuable parts of sites actually are the garbage dumps, and it's the most valuable garbage on the planet.

I find it quite funny too. People think our garbage is just "what we don't want"...in reality, at some point, the garbage dumps hold nearly everything we have ever owned...from kitchenware to entertainment to transportation. You know, all those little pieces of crap that show how we live our day to day lives.

[The South Islands]

But if they aren't one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, then they clearly aren't important. I mean, what could they possibly tell us?

Next you're going to tell me that everyday crap like bowls and plates and other pottery is actually relevant.

*tells you that everyday crap like bowls and plates and other pottery is actually relevant*

...



*stabs*

*for the second time this week.*

dammit, you need to get a new hobby besides stabbing TSI

[Sarkhaan]

dammit, you need to get a new hobby besides stabbing TSI

I have one, but your mom is already asleep in the other room.

[Greed and Death]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/07/31/iraq.babylon.damage/index.html?eref=rss_us

I'm not sure what's worse, that they damaged it or that they were making it into a base in the first place.

Well, they don't bear ALL the blame -- local residents also damaged it -- but damn, that was stupid. And yeah, they should pay to rehabilitate it to the extent that the damage can be repaired.

While the US troops should have been more careful, I think the Germans carting off every brick they could find in the early twentieth century, and Saddam building a replica over the place were both far more damaging.