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The National Liberal Party and National Liberalism

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Boico
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The National Liberal Party and National Liberalism

Postby Boico » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:12 pm

I've recently come across a rather interesting minor UK political party, the National Liberal Party:
STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES
National Liberals believe that the personal liberty of a nation’s citizens is vital and that this freedom is best preserved within the framework of a democratic nation state. A National Liberal will therefore support measures protecting and promoting personal liberty, greater democracy and national independence.
The two main achievements of the 19th century were the proliferation of Nation States and Civil Liberties. Today these achievements are under threat.
Supra-national bodies such as the European Union seek to destabilise existing nation states whilst ‘Globalisation’ is undermining national interests, by rapidly increasing the movement of people and capital around the world in the interests of Big Business.
Personal liberties are being restricted in an increasingly regulated ‘surveillance society’.
‘Big Brother’ Governments are beginning to intrude into many aspects of citizens lives e.g. Public Order Acts, ID Cards and political correctness, without any appreciable benefit i.e. winning any so-called war on crime/terror.
Whilst we can identify the threats to our freedoms and identity we also have a clear idea of the principles that underpin a healthy society. We use these principles in guiding us in determining policy:
• Protect the political and civic freedoms of the individual
• Promote Direct Democracy, including greater use of referenda
• Support the decentralisation of power to the lowest practical level(s) i.e. ‘subsidiarity’
• Support the widespread ownership of property, both business and personal
• Support for the ‘Third’ economic sector i.e. the Independent Small Trader, Self-Employed and Co-operatives
• Preservation of the nation state
• Recognising the importance of the Family, Community and Nation as building blocks that construct a healthy and stable society whilst accepting those who choose a different lifestyle or outlook
• Support measures to keep the land and environment ‘Green and Pleasant’.

http://nationalliberal.org/?page_id=10

Now at first I thought this was just another minor centrist party trying to appeal to 'middle England' but reading through their website, some of their ideas interest me. I have rather left leaning economic beliefs, but I've always been somewhat wary of the 'internationalism' of Socialism and other like minded groups.

Their policies on foreign affairs particularly appeal to me:
Neutral
Switzerland has not been involved in an international war for 200 years. They vigorously protect their ‘neutral’ position and independence by a reluctance to join international organizations such as the United Nations, NATO or the EU. By following a policy of ‘armed’ neutrality they ensure their borders are protected whilst refusing to become involved in ‘foreign adventures’.
The U.K has historically involved itself in a number of supra-national bodies e.g. EU but that would not preclude us limiting their internal interference (including our withdrawal in extreme circumstances). We would support a more ethical foreign policy and one which does not involve the U.K. acting as a proxy global policeman e.g. for the USA.

http://nationalliberal.org/?page_id=80

Now before the 2010 General Election I was, perhaps naively, hoping for real change (I voted for the Liberal Democrats). Since the election, however, I've lost all faith that the UK can be changed for the better. I began to look around at other parties and at every turn I was disappointed. But after looking through the NLP's policies, I think I may have found the party for me.

Until recently, I'd never heard of National Liberalism, but again, what I've read about it intrigues me. So NSG, what do you think? Do you agree with the NLP's policies? Do you think they'll work?
Last edited by Boico on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Siorafrica
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Postby Siorafrica » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:16 pm

They don't seem as bad as most British parties,which says little.
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Meryuma
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Postby Meryuma » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:19 pm

They seem like moderate 3rd positionists, mixing nationalist & conservative stuff with classical liberalism. I don't know what else there is to say.
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Republicke
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Postby Republicke » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:20 pm

Seems like nationalism (whether you agree with it or no) with the redeeming hue of certain liberal precepts. I imagine they support a classical liberalism, which would make me wary of any claims to left-wing credentials, but that's mere speculation.
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Yootwopia
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Postby Yootwopia » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:21 pm

Yeah we all saw how quickly 1848 turned into 1871 so no thanks.
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Hydesland
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Postby Hydesland » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:25 pm

I don't really support their policy of decentralisation. Many studies have shown that this leads to increased corruption and bribery, and decreased efficiency in tax and regulatory schemes. Some of their policies aren't too bad.

They seem to have a bit of a dodgy history too.

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Meryuma
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Postby Meryuma » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:26 pm

Republicke wrote:Seems like nationalism (whether you agree with it or no) with the redeeming hue of certain liberal precepts. I imagine they support a classical liberalism, which would make me wary of any claims to left-wing credentials, but that's mere speculation.


Classical liberalism is a leftist ideology. "Left" was coined to refer to the egalitarian & radical members of the French Parliament-the classical liberals.

Yootwopia wrote:Yeah we all saw how quickly 1848 turned into 1871 so no thanks.


1. The French Revolution was motivated by classical liberalism.
:. Therefore, classical liberal policies would lead to repeating the conditions of the French Revolution.

There's some kind of fallacy here, but I'm not quite sure what.
ᛋᛃᚢ - Social Justice Úlfheðinn
Potarius wrote:
Neo Arcad wrote:Gravity is a natural phenomenon by which physical bodies attract with a force proportional to their mass.


In layman's terms, orgy time.


Niur wrote: my soul has no soul.


Saint Clair Island wrote:The English language sucks. From now on, I will refer to the second definition of sexual as "fucktacular."


Trotskylvania wrote:Alternatively, we could go on an epic quest to Plato's Cave to find the legendary artifact, Ockham's Razor.



Norstal wrote:Gunpowder Plot: America.

Meryuma: "Well, I just hope these hyperboles don't...

*puts on sunglasses*

blow out of proportions."

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

...so here's your future

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Aeronos
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Postby Aeronos » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:28 pm

Too statist, sorry.
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Hydesland
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Postby Hydesland » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:29 pm

This doesn't seem especially 'classically liberal', given their support of a universal citizens income, nationalisation of railways and support for cooperatives

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Meryuma
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Postby Meryuma » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:33 pm

Hydesland wrote:This doesn't seem especially 'classically liberal', given their support of a universal citizens income, nationalisation of railways and support for cooperatives


Support for cooperatives in no way contradicts classical liberalism.
ᛋᛃᚢ - Social Justice Úlfheðinn
Potarius wrote:
Neo Arcad wrote:Gravity is a natural phenomenon by which physical bodies attract with a force proportional to their mass.


In layman's terms, orgy time.


Niur wrote: my soul has no soul.


Saint Clair Island wrote:The English language sucks. From now on, I will refer to the second definition of sexual as "fucktacular."


Trotskylvania wrote:Alternatively, we could go on an epic quest to Plato's Cave to find the legendary artifact, Ockham's Razor.



Norstal wrote:Gunpowder Plot: America.

Meryuma: "Well, I just hope these hyperboles don't...

*puts on sunglasses*

blow out of proportions."

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

...so here's your future

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Republicke
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Postby Republicke » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:34 pm

Hydesland wrote:I don't really support their policy of decentralisation. Many studies have shown that this leads to increased corruption and bribery, and decreased efficiency in tax and regulatory schemes. Some of their policies aren't too bad.

They seem to have a bit of a dodgy history too.


Source? I'm pretty agnostic on the issue, so it's mainly for interest. Cheers. :)


Meryuma wrote:
Republicke wrote:Seems like nationalism (whether you agree with it or no) with the redeeming hue of certain liberal precepts. I imagine they support a classical liberalism, which would make me wary of any claims to left-wing credentials, but that's mere speculation.


Classical liberalism is a leftist ideology. "Left" was coined to refer to the egalitarian & radical members of the French Parliament-the classical liberals.


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that classical liberalism was right-wing in origin, but it does strike me that most modern conservative parties tend (in their more freedom-oriented guises) toward a negative conception of liberty, and seem to consider themselves classical liberals. Have I misjudged the situation?
Economic Left/Right: -6.00, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.85

"Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for truth."
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Bramborska wrote:Muscular liberalism? He took my gay stripper name!

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Hydesland
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Postby Hydesland » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:38 pm

Meryuma wrote:
Hydesland wrote:This doesn't seem especially 'classically liberal', given their support of a universal citizens income, nationalisation of railways and support for cooperatives


Support for cooperatives in no way contradicts classical liberalism.


It depends what you mean by support. Simply acknowledging them, nodding your head and saying "yeah your business ought to be like this" might not, but offering subsidies and credit schemes and discouraging and punitively taxing non cooperative businesses is not really in line with classical liberal thinking at all.

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Hydesland
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Postby Hydesland » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:39 pm

Republicke wrote:Source? I'm pretty agnostic on the issue, so it's mainly for interest. Cheers. :)


Source for what exactly?

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Republicke
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Postby Republicke » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:41 pm

Hydesland wrote:
Republicke wrote:Source? I'm pretty agnostic on the issue, so it's mainly for interest. Cheers. :)


Source for what exactly?


Hydesland wrote:I don't really support their policy of decentralisation. Many studies have shown that this leads to increased corruption and bribery, and decreased efficiency in tax and regulatory schemes. Some of their policies aren't too bad.

They seem to have a bit of a dodgy history too.
Economic Left/Right: -6.00, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.85

"Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for truth."
- B. Disraeli

Bramborska wrote:Muscular liberalism? He took my gay stripper name!

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Meryuma
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Postby Meryuma » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:42 pm

Hydesland wrote:
Meryuma wrote:
Support for cooperatives in no way contradicts classical liberalism.


It depends what you mean by support. Simply acknowledging them, nodding your head and saying "yeah your business ought to be like this" might not, but offering subsidies and credit schemes and discouraging and punitively taxing non cooperative businesses is not really in line with classical liberal thinking at all.


Well, yeah. But you just said "support for cooperatives", i.e. the party supports cooperatives, not the party wants state support for cooperatives.

I guess social liberalism then.
ᛋᛃᚢ - Social Justice Úlfheðinn
Potarius wrote:
Neo Arcad wrote:Gravity is a natural phenomenon by which physical bodies attract with a force proportional to their mass.


In layman's terms, orgy time.


Niur wrote: my soul has no soul.


Saint Clair Island wrote:The English language sucks. From now on, I will refer to the second definition of sexual as "fucktacular."


Trotskylvania wrote:Alternatively, we could go on an epic quest to Plato's Cave to find the legendary artifact, Ockham's Razor.



Norstal wrote:Gunpowder Plot: America.

Meryuma: "Well, I just hope these hyperboles don't...

*puts on sunglasses*

blow out of proportions."

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

...so here's your future

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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:08 pm

I was marginally interested till I saw the 'direct democracy' and referenda bit. Dear oh dear. We have leaders to make decisions. Not to tell us to make decisions. It's like a hospital telling the patient to perform brain surgery on themselves.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
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Hydesland
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Postby Hydesland » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:08 pm

Republicke wrote:
Hydesland wrote:
Source for what exactly?


Hydesland wrote:I don't really support their policy of decentralisation. Many studies have shown that this leads to increased corruption and bribery, and decreased efficiency in tax and regulatory schemes. Some of their policies aren't too bad.

They seem to have a bit of a dodgy history too.


http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/facu ... uption.pdf

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Boico
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Postby Boico » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:09 pm

Hydesland wrote:I don't really support their policy of decentralisation. Many studies have shown that this leads to increased corruption and bribery, and decreased efficiency in tax and regulatory schemes. Some of their policies aren't too bad.

They seem to have a bit of a dodgy history too.

I had not heard of this, what exactly?

Dumb Ideologies wrote:I was marginally interested till I saw the 'direct democracy' and referenda bit. Dear oh dear. We have leaders to make decisions. Not to tell us to make decisions. It's like a hospital telling the patient to perform brain surgery on themselves.

Surely, within democracy, they are there to enact our decisions (or at least to make decisions based upon our will). It seems to work well in countries like Switzerland.
Last edited by Boico on Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mediterreania
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Postby Mediterreania » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:12 pm

Seems like the American libertarians to me.
Quick and dirty guide to factions in Mediterranea, and puppets to serve as examples:
-Free Assembly - decentralized group of local associations. Main faction.
-Workers' Republic - anarcho-syndicalist commune
-República Morsica (Betico)
-Republic of Lusca
-Catholic State (The Archbishop of Siraucsa)

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Revolutionarily
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Postby Revolutionarily » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:22 pm

i agree with what is written if they'd follow it, but as a politician i know they wont

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Helertia
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Postby Helertia » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:32 pm

I stop taking any political party seriously when their manifesto contains certain words or phrases; including, but not limited to:
-Nanny state
-Political correctness
-National identity
-Britishness
-Big Brother state
-Third Way
-Surviellance society
-Family values
-Supra-National

This of course includes variants. So thats why I'm dismissing the National Liberals out of hand.
Last edited by Helertia on Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:43 pm

I oppose any form of nationalism. I support supranational organizations such as the EU.


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