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Apple is not technologically innovative

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Double Rainbow Island
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Postby Double Rainbow Island » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:07 pm

Motuka wrote:Photoshop is terrible on OSX. Eats memory like a pig, crashes, et cetera. I suspect that's Adobe's problem, though, not Apple's.

This. The only reason Adobe is still around is because they are so diverse that a single disaster, like the Flash 10.2 hardware acceleration debacle, can't take them out. If only we could find a way around the need for their ubiquitous products...

On topic, Apple is like the Borg. They assimilate technology from others. Aside from a few small things, they don't research at all.

BUT, the reason people buy Apple products is because Apple combines the technologies like a 5-star chef. A little of this, not to much of that, and presto, an iProduct. The key with Apple isn't innovation, it's implementation. This is were their industrial design comes in. People buy macs because the look good and preform to expectations. They aren't tech-types and so therefore don't really need to know their machine's specs, only if it will run TF2 and Pro Tools 9. That's why there are websites like sytemrequiremnetslab.com.

Apple is a good company, Steve sometimes acts like Don Corleone, but he follows through on his promises of security and functionality as if his last name were Lannister.

That much being said, I'm writing this on a homebrew PC I built myself almost exclusively out of parts from Newegg and Tiger Direct. I don't own any iProducts personally, I admire the design but it's too rich for my wallet. :(

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L3 Communications
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Postby L3 Communications » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:31 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Andaluciae wrote:
A non-technology oriented client who had filled her office with a wide variety of computing products--including Mac computers, an iPad, an iPhone and the rest of the toys. Who introduced herself to us as being "technologically literate" and then started to berate us for not being in sync with such a technologically innovative company as Apple. It's pretty damn irritating to go into a situation, prepared for what you expect to be facing, to instead be presented with something else entirely, and then have to deal with someone dressing you down because you aren't ready to do what they want. She had half-read books about innovation on her shelf, like she took a course at the local community college on it--including the fucking one that claims to tell us how to "innovate like Apple!".

Okay, I have to stop here because I've reached the limit of my give a shit and if I keep going it's just to wind you up, which is tactless. You had a bad day at work and took it out on Apple for some reason. I'm sure Apple can handle it and certainly by no means should be immune to criticism. The fact that I never see an "Ain't Apple Grand" thread but one of these "Apple is t eh suck" threads every couple months makes me chuckle at the premise presented within them as it seems entirely in your heads. But whatever.
Andaluciae wrote:And...black friend? That's some serious hyperbole and a half, buddy. So, the fact that I own an iPod is evidence that I actually hate Apple? That's fucking rich.

Oh unclench. It was a joke. You have to admit, "I don't hate Apple, I have an iPod Touch!" sounds a lot like someone who just spent half an hour railing on black people saying he's not racist because he has a black friend.


Saying that Apple isn't as innovative as they are hyped by their marketing division and fanboys is railing on them?
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Meryuma
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Postby Meryuma » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:36 pm

I don't really care. I use a Macbook and an iPod, but I don't think there's anything special about that. I mean, I'm not stuck-up about it or anything. It just happens to be what I have, I'm not going to defend Apple's perceived honor in some random Internet debate or anything ridiculous like that.
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:37 pm

L3 Communications wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:Okay, I have to stop here because I've reached the limit of my give a shit and if I keep going it's just to wind you up, which is tactless. You had a bad day at work and took it out on Apple for some reason. I'm sure Apple can handle it and certainly by no means should be immune to criticism. The fact that I never see an "Ain't Apple Grand" thread but one of these "Apple is t eh suck" threads every couple months makes me chuckle at the premise presented within them as it seems entirely in your heads. But whatever.

Oh unclench. It was a joke. You have to admit, "I don't hate Apple, I have an iPod Touch!" sounds a lot like someone who just spent half an hour railing on black people saying he's not racist because he has a black friend.


Saying that Apple isn't as innovative as they are hyped by their marketing division and fanboys is railing on them?

It's all in the delivery.
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Vonners
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Postby Vonners » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:20 pm

Andaluciae wrote:
Arkinesia wrote:To be fair, Jobs has some foresight too. You should see this, for instance.


Networked Computers were, once again, an output of Xerox PARC. Meet: The Alto.


not sure about that...packet switching networks for linking computers was around since 1962 (SITA global network now known as the MTN or Mega Transport Network...)...

Jobs is a great marketer but in no way a technological innovator...you are 1000% correct in this.
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Mosasauria
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Postby Mosasauria » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:26 pm

Apple never was, nor will it ever, be innovative. But it sure knows how to grab people's attention and keep them hooked.
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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:28 pm

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Octopucta
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Postby Octopucta » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:25 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:It's all in the delivery.


Apple doesn't innovate technologically and it never has. Sure, they are innovative marketers and repackagers, and they have a good design arm. But, tech-wise, they have never crossed a technological threshhold, and following the Apple model will lead us down a road to cultural stagnation, laziness and mediocrity.

1. Apple doesn't innovate, they take what others have made and put a new spin on it: True
2. They haven't crossed a technological threshold: True
3. Large groups of people following in Apple's footsteps will be bad because eventually you will run out of ideas to repurpose: True

What is offensive about any of this?
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The Murtunian Tribes
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Postby The Murtunian Tribes » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:28 pm

Andaluciae wrote:I know this may be pretty much common knowledge, but I just had an IRL conversation with somebody who claimed that Apple was "so innovative, nobody has ever done what they are doing." And, well, I'm rant-ish right now, so I'm going to shoot off on that.

Apple doesn't innovate technologically and it never has. Sure, they are innovative marketers and repackagers, and they have a good design arm. But, tech-wise, they have never crossed a technological threshhold, and following the Apple model will lead us down a road to cultural stagnation, laziness and mediocrity. The things that they tout? The mouse and GUI both came out of Xerox-PARC and Stanford, IBM Simon was the first smartphone in 1992 (iPhone? A decade and a half later in 2007), iPod was foreshadowed by Kane Kramer in 1979,iPad (the least revolutionary of all because its a mimic of pre-existing technology, alongside the fact that it was, and still is, just a really big, extra clunky iPod Touch) was merely a well marketed repackaging of decade-old tablet technology...grouchy-grumble-mumble



I find that a better strategy is to just ignore them. They'll go away once no one's paying attention.

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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:29 pm

Octopucta wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:It's all in the delivery.


Apple doesn't innovate technologically and it never has. Sure, they are innovative marketers and repackagers, and they have a good design arm. But, tech-wise, they have never crossed a technological threshhold, and following the Apple model will lead us down a road to cultural stagnation, laziness and mediocrity.

1. Apple doesn't innovate, they take what others have made and put a new spin on it: True
2. They haven't crossed a technological threshold: True
3. Large groups of people following in Apple's footsteps will be bad because eventually you will run out of ideas to repurpose: True

What is offensive about any of this?

I'm not as invested in all this, to be honest, to get into a 'thing' about it. I saw it, I made my call. You don't see it, fair enough. My word is not total and I'm not so invested in what people choose to use that I want to launch any sort of detailed defense of a product that apparently gives other people cooties.
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Scientific socks
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Postby Scientific socks » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:36 pm

I remember some years ago when I was buying an mp3 player. In a major chain electronic store (Dick Smith for the Australians) I saw different products. I choose the 80GB Zen Vision media player over the 60GB Ipod because
1) It came with conversion software
2) It had a bigger screen
3) It came with a warranty
4) It was cheaper (By about $40)

Yet whilst buying it about three other people purchased the 60GB Ipod. The Zen Vision Media Player collapsed due to lack of demand despite offering a cheaper and better package. This was a time for me when I realised how stupid consumers really are.
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Andaluciae
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Postby Andaluciae » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:13 am

Scientific socks wrote:I remember some years ago when I was buying an mp3 player. In a major chain electronic store (Dick Smith for the Australians) I saw different products. I choose the 80GB Zen Vision media player over the 60GB Ipod because
1) It came with conversion software
2) It had a bigger screen
3) It came with a warranty
4) It was cheaper (By about $40)

Yet whilst buying it about three other people purchased the 60GB Ipod. The Zen Vision Media Player collapsed due to lack of demand despite offering a cheaper and better package. This was a time for me when I realised how stupid consumers really are.

When I bought my SanDisk player years ago it came with their own image campaign propaganda piece--iSheep. It's the exact same thing as what Apple does: Creates a vision of the "good life" and the "bad guys" based off of purchasing their products. The thing is, Apple's "I'm an individual and you're not" campaign is less cratchety than SanDisk's.
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Sun Aut Ex
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Postby Sun Aut Ex » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:43 am

When my iPod mini (battery charge: 0.5 hours) died, I went "Fuck it, I'm getting the exact opposite of an iPod". I ordered a Zune from the US and haven't looked back since. Lightyears ahead in design terms.
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So you think it's ok to waste valuable police time and resources to pander to minority superstitions?

"All available officers, report downtown, armed suspected firing wildly into the public."
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Yes.

Unless of course it's not OK for a woman to ask for a female to ask for a female officer to carry out body checks. In which case, the answer would be no.

"All available officers, report downtown, armed suspected firing wildly into the public."
"I'll be about then minutes, I have to go to carry out a body check on a woman."

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L3 Communications
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Postby L3 Communications » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:00 am

Cannot think of a name wrote:
L3 Communications wrote:
Saying that Apple isn't as innovative as they are hyped by their marketing division and fanboys is railing on them?

It's all in the delivery.


Which was neutral and non-offensive.

You're the first person to actually take offense to the OP, which is telling.
Last edited by L3 Communications on Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Risen Britannia
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Postby Risen Britannia » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:09 am

The Atlantean Menace wrote:They do it a lot better than other people, though. Sure, an iPod (Excluding the touch) is pretty much just an MP3 player. But it's got way more memory than just about any other MP3 player on the market.

Which pisses me off, because iPods need competition. They still do annoying shit they shouldn't do, not work for no reason, etc. from time to time, but there's not really any other product you can get unless you want to cut the memory available to you by almost 75% (Biggest Zune I saw from a quick google is 32 gigs, my iPod is 120.)


the zune does have a 120 GB HDD which came out in September 2008. The "newest" ones can have 16 GB, 32 GB and 64 GB Flash
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Postby Wamitoria » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:14 am

When has Apple been innovative? Sure, they're popularity has surged in recent years, but that's mostly because of Windows Vista.
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Postby Arkinesia » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:23 am

Sun Aut Ex wrote:When my iPod mini (battery charge: 0.5 hours) died, I went "Fuck it, I'm getting the exact opposite of an iPod". I ordered a Zune from the US and haven't looked back since. Lightyears ahead in design terms.

You're the only person I know to say that, others I've known who have one complain that it breaks even more than an iPod.
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Postby Republicke » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:29 am

Are Apple really much worse than the average? I mean, I hear that Microsoft are pretty terrible, and if they and Apple are of little worth, then isn't that a pretty big slice of the market?
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New new nebraska
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Postby New new nebraska » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:00 am

They market well. I own an iPod touch and so far have no complaints. I do like it. That being said I like the new MacBook Pro but currently own a PC. It seems good but I'd have to do some real research into it before shelling out $2500. Some people are just idiots though and will blindly buy whatever Apple tells them because its aesthetically pleasing and because they believe in the "omgz apple cant get a virus" myth.
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Accag
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Postby Accag » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:55 pm

Apple don't reinvent the market, however although I dislike the company as a whole, I have to say that they do a good job of making their products clean and simple to use. Although there are competitors to the iPod, it's just so simple and logical that I don't find it hard to see why it's done so well. With regards to the marketing side of things, Apple are remarkably good, I don't know whether anybody has seen this, but I really think it sums them up.http://bit.ly/gWfOou

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Postby Helertia » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:28 pm

Accag wrote:Apple don't reinvent the market, however although I dislike the company as a whole, I have to say that they do a good job of making their products clean and simple to use. Although there are competitors to the iPod, it's just so simple and logical that I don't find it hard to see why it's done so well. With regards to the marketing side of things, Apple are remarkably good, I don't know whether anybody has seen this, but I really think it sums them up.http://bit.ly/gWfOou


I can't stand Apple products because they're incredibly easy and simple until you try and do something that Apple doesn't want you to do, or simply didn't think of. Every aspect of Apple products have DRM or equivilent built into it, it's awful.
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Sun Aut Ex
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Postby Sun Aut Ex » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:03 am

Arkinesia wrote:You're the only person I know to say that, others I've known who have one complain that it breaks even more than an iPod.


WTF? I've never had any problems with the Zune.
Strykyh wrote:I wasn't trying to be intelligent.

Keronians wrote:
So you think it's ok to waste valuable police time and resources to pander to minority superstitions?

"All available officers, report downtown, armed suspected firing wildly into the public."
"I'll be about ten minutes, I have to go to ID a Muslim woman."


Yes.

Unless of course it's not OK for a woman to ask for a female to ask for a female officer to carry out body checks. In which case, the answer would be no.

"All available officers, report downtown, armed suspected firing wildly into the public."
"I'll be about then minutes, I have to go to carry out a body check on a woman."

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Terra Australasia
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Postby Terra Australasia » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:37 am

Republicke wrote:Are Apple really much worse than the average? I mean, I hear that Microsoft are pretty terrible, and if they and Apple are of little worth, then isn't that a pretty big slice of the market?


If you're talking about operating systems, Microsoft isn't that terrible. It's passable, as is the Mac, but from hearsay, Windows is much easier to learn, and either way, trying to switch from a Windows to a Mac is torture if you don't know how to use a Mac.

I found, surprisingly, my Linux more user friendly than trying to get my head around my school's art department's Macs.

I'm a nonbeliever. Shun me Jobs. I dare you.

I'm a Linux man.

If you're talking about the actual hardware, then you're slightly confused, but that's probably unlikely. In case you are, then note that any OS should work on any complete computer (a modern motherboard, graphics card, CPU, a FAN - it stands for a fan, otherwise known as a device to keep your computer from burning up and dying, and is essential). It's just that apparently Apple laptops tend to use far superior components, despite the fact that it is relatively easy (on a PC) to replace components.

I've never tried with a laptop, but it would probably be a lot harder, hence such ripoffs as the Macbook pro making money.

---------------

It's hard to be technologically innovative. A LOT of things can be traced back further than you think.

But Apple is innovative. Just not in the IT field.

Their marketing is seriously a work of art. It seems to involve everyone from their lowest employee all the way to literally The Man himself.

No other person could take a computer operating system and somehow figure out a way to use its brand recognition to sell a phone.

Except by doing so, he spread the Apple Bug. Which has an addiction to the leaves of the money tree.

It seems that every apple product comes with its own set of hoops to be added onto its predecessor. Need I point you to the iPhone's...particularities in terms of software? And which carrier it likes best?
Last edited by Terra Australasia on Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Luna Amore
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Postby Luna Amore » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:08 am

Terra Australasia wrote:Windows is much easier to learn, and either way, trying to switch from a Windows to a Mac is torture if you don't know how to use a Mac.
Mac OS is pretty straight-forward. I'm not sure what could have made it 'torture' for you.

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Foamy XIII
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Postby Foamy XIII » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:43 am

Apple is pretty much the next Enron anyway.... except with huge public support and vast financial reserves. One day Apple IPad and IPhone users are gonna wake up and shout, "I've been (insert expletive) duped!"
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