Does Israel have the right to exist?

[Ralkovia]

I've never understood why the United States supports Israel so much. We steal Native Americans' land and kill tons of them. The ONLY thing we can do to correct that is not do it again. Yet, the Israelis do it, and we go right along.

I think its something to do with the billions of dollars in technology that Israel produces that benefits the world...I'm not sure.

I mean when you produce a cancer detector that works by breath, medical camera robots that can find ulcers and tumors inside the body, irrigation systems that help 3rd world desert countries utilize water effectively, computer technology that can help you run complex software such as city grids, cell phones, genetically engineered plants that are easy to grow in unfriendly climates, defensive gear that is capable of stopping an incoming mortar round or RPG and hundreds of other technologies; I guess the U.S just really wants to be your friend.

[New Rogernomics]

Rights to exist of nations are totally irrelevant, existence of nation states are determined not by resolutions or world opinion, but by sheer military force and manipulation of the masses (Jews pressured the US and the British into it). So whether Israel's founding was illegal or unfair is irrelevant, it happened and unless the Islamic states (and several European nations) want to be irradiated craters, Israel will continue to exist, none the less that is even before we get to their better military victory record (6 day war ownage of the Arab states) and their economic influence (without Israel this forum would not exist, as BB Codes and Personal Messaging were designed by a bunch of Israelis).

[Etharnor]

threats against Israel -

In the weeks leading up to the Six Day War, Arab leaders repeatedly threatened Israel with annihilation. Together with Egypt's ejection of United Nations forces, the closing of the Straits of Tiran, and the massing of troops on Israel's northern and southern borders, the fiery rhetoric created a state of existential fear in Israel.

Egypt

"Our aim is the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, November 18, 1965

"Brothers, it is our duty to prepare for the final battle in Palestine." – Nasser, Palestine Day, 1967

"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel." – Nasser, May 27, 1967

"We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel .... The war with Israel is in effect since 1948." – Nasser, May 28, 1967

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations." – Nasser, May, 30, 1967 after signing a defense pact with Jordan's King Hussein

"We are now ready to confront Israel .... The issue now at hand is not the Gulf of Aqaba, the Straits of Tiran, or the withdrawal of UNEF, but the ... aggression which took place in Palestine ... with the collaboration of Britain and the United States." – Nasser, June 2, 1967

"Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria is in a position to cut Israel in two at Kalkilya, where Israeli territory between the Jordan armistice line and the Mediterranean Sea is only twelve kilometers wide ... ." – El Akhbar newspaper, Cairo, May 31, 1967

Cairo Radio Statements:

May 19, 1967: "This is our chance Arabs, to deal Israel a mortal blow of annihilation, to blot out its entire presence in our holy land"

May 22, 1967: "The Arab people is firmly resolved to wipe Israel off the map"

May 25, 1967: "The Gulf of Aqaba, by the dictum of history and the protection of our soldiers, is Arab, Arab, Arab."

May 25, 1967: "Millions of Arabs are ... preparing to blow up all of America's interests, all of America's installations, and your entire existence, America."

May 27, 1967: "We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel's death and annihilation."

May 30, 1967: "With the closing of the Gulf of Akaba, Israel is faced with two alternatives either of which will destroy it; it will either be strangled to death by the Arab military and economic boycott, or it will perish by the fire of the Arab forces encompassing it from the South from the North and from the East."

May 30, 1967: "The world will know that the Arabs are girded for battle as the fateful hour approaches."

Jordan

"All of the Arab armies now surround Israel. The UAR, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, Lebanon, Algeria, Sudan, and Kuwait. ... There is no difference between one Arab people and another, no difference between one Arab army and another." – King Hussein of Jordan, after signing the pact with Egypt May 30, 1967

Iraq

"The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear – to wipe Israel off the map. We shall, God willing, meet in Tel Aviv and Haifa." – President Abdel Rahman Aref of Iraq, May 31, 1967

Palestinians

"D-Day is approaching. The Arabs have waited 19 years for this and will not flinch from the war of liberation." – Ahmed Shukairy, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, May 27, 1967

"This is a fight for the homeland – it is either us or the Israelis. There is no middle road. The Jews of Palestine will have to leave. We will facilitate their departure to their former homes. Any of the old Palestine Jewish population who survive may stay, but it is my impression that none of them will survive." – Shukairy, June 1, 1967

"We shall destroy Israel and its inhabitants and as for the survivors – if there are any – the boats are ready to deport them." – Shukairy, June 1, 1967, speaking at a Friday sermon in Jerusalem

Syria

Syria's forces are "ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united.... I as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation." – Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad, May 20, 1967

"Our two brotherly countries have turned into one mobilized force. The withdrawal of the UN forces ... means 'make way, our forces are on their way to battle.'" – Foreign Minister Makhous on his return from Cairo

Others

"The freedom of the homeland will be completed by the destruction of the Zionist entity and the expulsion of the Americans and the British from the region." – Algerian Prime Minister Houari Boumedienne

"We want war. War is the only way to settle the problem of Israel. The Arabs are ready." – Yemeni Foreign Minister Salam

source-http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/threats.asp

[Free Vegas]

Hudson: Let's just bug out and call it even, OK? What are we talking about this for?
Ripley: I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Hudson: F*ckin' A...
Burke: Ho-ho-hold on, hold on one second. This installation has a substantial dollar value attached to it.
Ripley: They can bill me.

Would anyone really miss the Middle East if was all turned to glass?

I assume the families of the .8 billion people living there would.

[Ralkovia]

As is yours my friend.
1) The fatalities on Israel's side are tantamount to nothing in comparison to what they claim to be suffering.

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article.php?id=3220
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 23,00.html
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/213387/he ... ar_scenes/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys

That makes two sides. In war, people tend to inflate the number of dead.

The fatalities they suffer (which are few and far between) are typically a result of mobbing.

The word you were looking for is bombing, I can see how they are spelt with the exact same letters so they could get a little confusing. Yes, they do usually suffer casualties from bombings.

2) Wrong. If you are believing what Tony Blair has to say, then sure, everything is sunshine and daisies. If you had the first hand accounts of what is actually going on, through the political bullshit, you would know that no, in fact the blockades are very much still around Gaza and that they are still very much restricting the basic human rights of the Palestinians.

Not really, I've been to Israel, convoys of trucks bring supplies across into Gaza everyday, delivering them. Hamas often however commandeers these supplies for Hamas and its supporters first. I'll get a link up soon.
Of course Israel bans a large number of non-military goods. Hamas is basically a MacGuyver in creating explosives and weapons from out of nothing. At this point I'll agree with you in terms of restricting, however its not because the Israel's get pleasure from this. Certain things are unreasonable, I don't like the fact that the Israeli's regulate the water, and it borders on collective punishment at times. It's the fact that if Israel allows Hamas to get construction supplies, what stops them from using it to build a tunnel or something else.

You can't obviously say that we should just get rid of the blockade altogether. Every ship that enters the Gaza strip should be checked and rechecked.

3) The flotilla was full of civilians. What is there to debate. Israel is out for its own gain and of course will keep saying until they are blue in the face that they had no other choice but to kill those civilians. And unless activists bringing aide to Gaza with the intent of solely assisting them and not getting involved with the Israelis causes them to be at fault for the Israeli-initiated attack, I would very much beg to differ.

Yeah its not like activists have ever tried to smuggle anything other than humanitarian...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karine_A_Affair
I mean come on, it was one time, it's not like it would ever happen again...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francop_Affair
Okay two times. Two times. And it wasn't even to Hamas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorini_%28ship%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Affair

The primary motivation for the blockades is not because Israel likes to just make the Palestinians miserable for no other reason than shits and giggles. It's because they try to smuggle 50 tons of weapons.

Get it. That's why a blockade exists. 50 tons of weapons can kill a lot of people. A lot of Israeli's. Guess what Israel doesn't like?
Answer. Its people getting killed.

4) By Israel not existing I more or less meant that it should not exist as it does now. I am a practising Jew, yet everything that the Israelis have done goes against Jewish law and the Torah. And Palestine does not exist any longer in the sense of a nation, because of what Israel has done to it. It can no longer even be a nation because of all the illegal settlements. So please tell me where its rights lie in regards to this, because as I see it, they have been stripped away.

@Dododecapod: Clearly, because if we were going by righteousness or anything at all using the basest of moral values, we would all be behind Palestine.

Israel's current state exists as a byproduct of its history. It's an extremely paranoid state that commits a bunch of illegal moves. Guess what though, its against the law to murder. Doesn't stop me from killing someone threatening my family. That's called self-defense. And sure, everything Israel does can't be thrown under the label self-defense. However, when for the past 60 years your enemies have been trying at every opportunity to annihilate you from the face of the Earth, you start to not really care about what the rest of the world thinks.

Notice how Israel seems to devote a lot of aid to countries that aren't Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, or Lebanon? Notice how Israel seems to produce more technology that aids people? Notice how Israel produces more medically relevant devices than a lot of other countries? Notice how Israel is almost always on the forefront of innovation, ranking in the top 15 of the most innovative nations in the world? Notice how Israel seems to produce more out of a land the size of New Jersey than the entire nation of Egypt with close to 400,000 square miles of territory and a population of 80 million? Notice how Israel with a population that makes it only 96th in the word in population size and is only about 60 years old is ranked 27th in the word for GDP per capita? Notice how Israel, which has very little in the terms of natural resources, seems to magically produce more goods? Notice how Israel sends aid and helps people in third world african nations through clinics, field hospitals, and other type of relief? Notice how Israeli technology benefits millions of people? Notice how everyone who hasn't tried to kill or harm Israel has benefited?

[St George of England]

threats against Israel -

In the weeks leading up to the Six Day War, Arab leaders repeatedly threatened Israel with annihilation. Together with Egypt's ejection of United Nations forces, the closing of the Straits of Tiran, and the massing of troops on Israel's northern and southern borders, the fiery rhetoric created a state of existential fear in Israel.

Egypt

"Our aim is the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, November 18, 1965

"Brothers, it is our duty to prepare for the final battle in Palestine." – Nasser, Palestine Day, 1967

"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel." – Nasser, May 27, 1967

"We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel .... The war with Israel is in effect since 1948." – Nasser, May 28, 1967

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations." – Nasser, May, 30, 1967 after signing a defense pact with Jordan's King Hussein

"We are now ready to confront Israel .... The issue now at hand is not the Gulf of Aqaba, the Straits of Tiran, or the withdrawal of UNEF, but the ... aggression which took place in Palestine ... with the collaboration of Britain and the United States." – Nasser, June 2, 1967

"Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria is in a position to cut Israel in two at Kalkilya, where Israeli territory between the Jordan armistice line and the Mediterranean Sea is only twelve kilometers wide ... ." – El Akhbar newspaper, Cairo, May 31, 1967

Cairo Radio Statements:

May 19, 1967: "This is our chance Arabs, to deal Israel a mortal blow of annihilation, to blot out its entire presence in our holy land"

May 22, 1967: "The Arab people is firmly resolved to wipe Israel off the map"

May 25, 1967: "The Gulf of Aqaba, by the dictum of history and the protection of our soldiers, is Arab, Arab, Arab."

May 25, 1967: "Millions of Arabs are ... preparing to blow up all of America's interests, all of America's installations, and your entire existence, America."

May 27, 1967: "We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel's death and annihilation."

May 30, 1967: "With the closing of the Gulf of Akaba, Israel is faced with two alternatives either of which will destroy it; it will either be strangled to death by the Arab military and economic boycott, or it will perish by the fire of the Arab forces encompassing it from the South from the North and from the East."

May 30, 1967: "The world will know that the Arabs are girded for battle as the fateful hour approaches."

Jordan

"All of the Arab armies now surround Israel. The UAR, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, Lebanon, Algeria, Sudan, and Kuwait. ... There is no difference between one Arab people and another, no difference between one Arab army and another." – King Hussein of Jordan, after signing the pact with Egypt May 30, 1967

Iraq

"The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear – to wipe Israel off the map. We shall, God willing, meet in Tel Aviv and Haifa." – President Abdel Rahman Aref of Iraq, May 31, 1967

Palestinians

"D-Day is approaching. The Arabs have waited 19 years for this and will not flinch from the war of liberation." – Ahmed Shukairy, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, May 27, 1967

"This is a fight for the homeland – it is either us or the Israelis. There is no middle road. The Jews of Palestine will have to leave. We will facilitate their departure to their former homes. Any of the old Palestine Jewish population who survive may stay, but it is my impression that none of them will survive." – Shukairy, June 1, 1967

"We shall destroy Israel and its inhabitants and as for the survivors – if there are any – the boats are ready to deport them." – Shukairy, June 1, 1967, speaking at a Friday sermon in Jerusalem

Syria

Syria's forces are "ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united.... I as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation." – Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad, May 20, 1967

"Our two brotherly countries have turned into one mobilized force. The withdrawal of the UN forces ... means 'make way, our forces are on their way to battle.'" – Foreign Minister Makhous on his return from Cairo

Others

"The freedom of the homeland will be completed by the destruction of the Zionist entity and the expulsion of the Americans and the British from the region." – Algerian Prime Minister Houari Boumedienne

"We want war. War is the only way to settle the problem of Israel. The Arabs are ready." – Yemeni Foreign Minister Salam

All very interesting, until you go to the source you used. : -

source-http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/threats.asp

And see that it's a site run by CAMERA. Hardly an unbiased source.

Please, provide evidence those threats actually occurred.

[Etharnor]

threats against Israel -

In the weeks leading up to the Six Day War, Arab leaders repeatedly threatened Israel with annihilation. Together with Egypt's ejection of United Nations forces, the closing of the Straits of Tiran, and the massing of troops on Israel's northern and southern borders, the fiery rhetoric created a state of existential fear in Israel.

Egypt

"Our aim is the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, November 18, 1965

"Brothers, it is our duty to prepare for the final battle in Palestine." – Nasser, Palestine Day, 1967

"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel." – Nasser, May 27, 1967

"We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel .... The war with Israel is in effect since 1948." – Nasser, May 28, 1967

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations." – Nasser, May, 30, 1967 after signing a defense pact with Jordan's King Hussein

"We are now ready to confront Israel .... The issue now at hand is not the Gulf of Aqaba, the Straits of Tiran, or the withdrawal of UNEF, but the ... aggression which took place in Palestine ... with the collaboration of Britain and the United States." – Nasser, June 2, 1967

"Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria is in a position to cut Israel in two at Kalkilya, where Israeli territory between the Jordan armistice line and the Mediterranean Sea is only twelve kilometers wide ... ." – El Akhbar newspaper, Cairo, May 31, 1967

Cairo Radio Statements:

May 19, 1967: "This is our chance Arabs, to deal Israel a mortal blow of annihilation, to blot out its entire presence in our holy land"

May 22, 1967: "The Arab people is firmly resolved to wipe Israel off the map"

May 25, 1967: "The Gulf of Aqaba, by the dictum of history and the protection of our soldiers, is Arab, Arab, Arab."

May 25, 1967: "Millions of Arabs are ... preparing to blow up all of America's interests, all of America's installations, and your entire existence, America."

May 27, 1967: "We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel's death and annihilation."

May 30, 1967: "With the closing of the Gulf of Akaba, Israel is faced with two alternatives either of which will destroy it; it will either be strangled to death by the Arab military and economic boycott, or it will perish by the fire of the Arab forces encompassing it from the South from the North and from the East."

May 30, 1967: "The world will know that the Arabs are girded for battle as the fateful hour approaches."

Jordan

"All of the Arab armies now surround Israel. The UAR, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, Lebanon, Algeria, Sudan, and Kuwait. ... There is no difference between one Arab people and another, no difference between one Arab army and another." – King Hussein of Jordan, after signing the pact with Egypt May 30, 1967

Iraq

"The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear – to wipe Israel off the map. We shall, God willing, meet in Tel Aviv and Haifa." – President Abdel Rahman Aref of Iraq, May 31, 1967

Palestinians

"D-Day is approaching. The Arabs have waited 19 years for this and will not flinch from the war of liberation." – Ahmed Shukairy, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, May 27, 1967

"This is a fight for the homeland – it is either us or the Israelis. There is no middle road. The Jews of Palestine will have to leave. We will facilitate their departure to their former homes. Any of the old Palestine Jewish population who survive may stay, but it is my impression that none of them will survive." – Shukairy, June 1, 1967

"We shall destroy Israel and its inhabitants and as for the survivors – if there are any – the boats are ready to deport them." – Shukairy, June 1, 1967, speaking at a Friday sermon in Jerusalem

Syria

Syria's forces are "ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united.... I as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation." – Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad, May 20, 1967

"Our two brotherly countries have turned into one mobilized force. The withdrawal of the UN forces ... means 'make way, our forces are on their way to battle.'" – Foreign Minister Makhous on his return from Cairo

Others

"The freedom of the homeland will be completed by the destruction of the Zionist entity and the expulsion of the Americans and the British from the region." – Algerian Prime Minister Houari Boumedienne

"We want war. War is the only way to settle the problem of Israel. The Arabs are ready." – Yemeni Foreign Minister Salam

All very interesting, until you go to the source you used. : -

source-http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/threats.asp

And see that it's a site run by CAMERA. Hardly an unbiased source.

Please, provide evidence those threats actually occurred.

please provide evidence that those threats didn't occur.

[United Dependencies]

Whether or not the state of Israel has a right to exist is irrelevant. The country is here, it exist, and it has people living in it who call them selves citizens of said state. We will just have to move from there.

[St George of England]

All very interesting, until you go to the source you used. : -And see that it's a site run by CAMERA. Hardly an unbiased source.

Please, provide evidence those threats actually occurred.

please provide evidence that those threats didn't occur.

Don't need to. You made the claim they occurred. You need to prove it.

[Grotesa]

please provide evidence that those threats didn't occur.

Don't need to. You made the claim they occurred. You need to prove it.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... sser1.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 493177.stm

This is Ralkovia BTW.

[St George of England]

Don't need to. You made the claim they occurred. You need to prove it.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... sser1.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 493177.stm

This is Ralkovia BTW.

Didn't ask you

But danke, or w/e.

[Grotesa]

But I always oblige the right side.

[Nazi Flower Power]

People make Nazi comparisons when they are criticizing other countries, so I don't see why Israel should be exempt. If someone says Israel is as bad as the Nazis, that's clearly not accurate, so it is probably anti-Semitism. However, if someone points out similarities between Israel and Nazi Germany WITHOUT flying off the handle and making exaggerated statements like "Israel is doing exactly the same thing the Nazis did!" then it may be a legitimate criticism.

It is like comparing the victim to the rapist, It is a normal thing for Socialist parties to compare Israel to Nazis, like themselves.

The problem here is that it says, "You're anti-Semitic if you do this" without considering the possibility that Israel might do something to justify it. Just because Israel isn't doing anything as bad as Nazi Germany right now doesn't mean it can't ever. If you beat up a Jew who's just standing there minding his own business, that's an anti-Semitic hate crime. If you beat up a Jew who just broke into your house, that's not anti-Semitic or criminal. You can't label something anti-Semitic without looking at the behavior of the Jews involved to see if they did something to provoke it. If Israel conquers Poland and puts Auschwitz back in business, according to that thing you posted it would still be anti-Semitic to compare them to the Nazis. I don't really expect Israel to do such a thing, but there should still be a caveat that Nazi comparisons are only anti-Semitic to the extent that they are inaccurate.

To use your rape analogy, it is entirely possible for someone who was once raped to go out and start an abusive relationship where they are the abuser; and there is no reason not to compare their own abusive behavior to the person who raped them.

[Vitaphone Racing]

How can you not understand that all these wars are not the fault of the Arabs? Do some background research, every single conflict involved Israel being threatened, invaded or provoked in one or more ways. When a nation's citizens are under threat, said nation can use whatever force necessary to protect them. Go look up the Geneva convention, Israel's actions are perfectly legal.

And there you go again. Israel attacks Lebanon. Oh it's Lebanon's fault! Israel attacks Egypt. Oh it's Egypt's fault! Israel attacks Jordan. Oh it's Jordan's fault!

And I'm glad that you acknowledge the rights of the Palestinian state to defend it's citizens from IDF aggression. Because, guess what, not every Palestinian is a terrorist. Is your mind blown? I bet it is.

Israel attacks Lebanon because Lebanon provided support to terrorists to kill and kidnap Israeli civilians. Oh, its Lebanon's fault. Israel attacks Egypt before Egypt does a Yom Kippur, Oh it's Egypt's fault. Israel attacks Jordan because Jordan was stupid enough to go for Israel first. Oh, it's Jordans fault. Yeah, the Arabs are completely innocent and Israel is just a pig of a nation isn't it? Your anti-semetic tirade is ridiculous.

And saying Israel started the war simply because they smacked Egypt first is incredibly short-sighted, narrow-minded and unbelievably stupid all in the one sentence. Do you misunderstand the fact that the Arab states were planning a full-scale invasion of Israel, or are you just ignoring it? If Israel knew about the planned attack on their citizens, surely they had the right to prevent it. The Six Day war was handled very professionally by Israel you know, minimal civillian casualties and low loss of life. No Israel did not start the war, the Arab-states did that when they gave Israel no choice but to intervene.

No, it's none of those things. Israel attacked Egypt before Egypt attacked Israel. Israel had every right to do so, but I am arguing with facts, you are arguing with justifications. By attacking Egypt first, it was Israel who started the war. What about that is so hard for you to understand?

Wait what? According to you, Egypt provokes Israel into an act of self-defence, but the entire blame for the conflict rests on... Israel? Read that sentence again, over and over, and maybe you will twig as to why I cannot understand why Israel is at fault. Egypt didn't just provoke them, it was two days away from annexing them. Israel was damned lucky it got in first. The war wouldn't have been started if Egypt didn't want more lebensraum. Again, much anti-semitism or what? Or do you just really hate Israel?

And what question have I changed? I have never once strayed from my viewpoint that Israel isn't the present cause of trouble in the Middle East despite their questionable methods. I don't need to bullshit in order to villify the Arab states, they do that themselves. And I'll thank you to debate properly rather than make up shit that you wish I'd said and expect me to roll with it

You started off saying, and are still saying, that the Arab states started the Six Day War. This is a lie. Then, when called on it, you proceeded to spout bullshit about how by planning to invade they were attacking Israel and starting the war. Whilst I don't deny they were planning to invade (to do so would be a lie), to claim this is evidence of Israel not starting the war is, unsurprisingly for anyone familiar with your posts, a lie.

Please, feel free to answer anything else I brought up in my posts, and I'll in turn point out more of your lies.

Here we go again. Israel started the Six Day war because they were left with no other choice but to attack Egypt. The Arab states are completely innocent because they have the right to plot to invade Israel and prepare to carry through with it. Oh I get it. A nation has no right to defend itself from an attack which it knows will happen. Israel shouldn't have acted until Tel-Aviv was being bombed. Riiight.

Face facts. Even if Israel hadn't have acted, the war would have started anyway. If the Arabs hadn't mobilized, the war would have never started. The Arab states were ready for conflict, you yourself admitted it.

Let me put this in your perspective. If I sit here and troll you into flaming me and you get a warning for it while I get off for free, is that really fair? You can apply the same principle to the Middle East. Israel's actions are controversial and far from perfect but I cannot understand how you can point every inch of the blame onto them while you defend the Arab states which vehemently swear to remove Israel from the earth.

You can call me a liar all you want, but that's just a knee-jerk reaction because you know that you fucked up by saying the Arabs are completely blameless. Hell, everyone else knows you fucked up too. Even the Arabs themselves know you fucked up. You don't have factual information as to what happened and what continues to happen in the Middle East, you only have your opinions. And guess what? Your opinions are all wrong. The Arab states are not innocent in this conflict no matter how hard you try to shift the blame to Israel.

[St George of England]

And there you go again. Israel attacks Lebanon. Oh it's Lebanon's fault! Israel attacks Egypt. Oh it's Egypt's fault! Israel attacks Jordan. Oh it's Jordan's fault!

And I'm glad that you acknowledge the rights of the Palestinian state to defend it's citizens from IDF aggression. Because, guess what, not every Palestinian is a terrorist. Is your mind blown? I bet it is.

Israel attacks Lebanon because Lebanon provided support to terrorists to kill and kidnap Israeli civilians. Oh, its Lebanon's fault. Israel attacks Egypt before Egypt does a Yom Kippur, Oh it's Egypt's fault. Israel attacks Jordan because Jordan was stupid enough to go for Israel first. Oh, it's Jordans fault. Yeah, the Arabs are completely innocent and Israel is just a pig of a nation isn't it? Your anti-semetic tirade is ridiculous.

Lol. I dislike Israel so that makes me Anti-semitic? You need to look up the definition of Semite. In fact, because you won't, I'll do it for you:
In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎, translated as "name", Arabic: ساميّ‎) was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Akkadian, Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Phoenician, Tigre and Tigrinya among others. {from Wikipedia. Note the fucking bold.

No, it's none of those things. Israel attacked Egypt before Egypt attacked Israel. Israel had every right to do so, but I am arguing with facts, you are arguing with justifications. By attacking Egypt first, it was Israel who started the war. What about that is so hard for you to understand?

Wait what? According to you, Egypt provokes Israel into an act of self-defence, but the entire blame for the conflict rests on... Israel? Read that sentence again, over and over, and maybe you will twig as to why I cannot understand why Israel is at fault. Egypt didn't just provoke them, it was two days away from annexing them. Israel was damned lucky it got in first. The war wouldn't have been started if Egypt didn't want more lebensraum. Again, much anti-semitism or what? Or do you just really hate Israel?

By attacking Egypt first, by all standards of definition and international law, Israel started the 6 Day War. It doesn't matter what Egypt and the other Arab states intended, because, guess what, we weren't debating whether Israel's actions were justifiable or not. We were discussing who started the war. And by attacking Egypt first, Israel started the war. When will that penetrate that nuclear power station grade thickness skull of yours?

You started off saying, and are still saying, that the Arab states started the Six Day War. This is a lie. Then, when called on it, you proceeded to spout bullshit about how by planning to invade they were attacking Israel and starting the war. Whilst I don't deny they were planning to invade (to do so would be a lie), to claim this is evidence of Israel not starting the war is, unsurprisingly for anyone familiar with your posts, a lie.

Please, feel free to answer anything else I brought up in my posts, and I'll in turn point out more of your lies.

Here we go again. Israel started the Six Day war because they were left with no other choice but to attack Egypt. The Arab states are completely innocent because they have the right to plot to invade Israel and prepare to carry through with it. Oh I get it. A nation has no right to defend itself from an attack which it knows will happen. Israel shouldn't have acted until Tel-Aviv was being bombed. Riiight.

Thank you for, finally admitting it. But, yet again, you missed where I said that Israel was justified in attacking first. And please, point out where I said the Arabs states were completely innocent. Of course, that'd require you to actually read a post.

Face facts. Even if Israel hadn't have acted, the war would have started anyway. If the Arabs hadn't mobilized, the war would have never started. The Arab states were ready for conflict, you yourself admitted it.

Hence why I also 'admitted' Israel was justified in it's actions during the 6 Day War.

Let me put this in your perspective. If I sit here and troll you into flaming me and you get a warning for it while I get off for free, is that really fair? You can apply the same principle to the Middle East. Israel's actions are controversial and far from perfect but I cannot understand how you can point every inch of the blame onto them while you defend the Arab states which vehemently swear to remove Israel from the earth.

Show where I pointed 'every inch of blame onto Israel'. I have said, several times in this thread, that both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist. And nice analogy, except if I flame you and get warned, neither of us dies.

You can call me a liar all you want, but that's just a knee-jerk reaction because you know that you fucked up by saying the Arabs are completely blameless. Hell, everyone else knows you fucked up too. Even the Arabs themselves know you fucked up. You don't have factual information as to what happened and what continues to happen in the Middle East, you only have your opinions. And guess what? Your opinions are all wrong. The Arab states are not innocent in this conflict no matter how hard you try to shift the blame to Israel.

And again, show me where I said the Arab states were blameless or admit you're lying.

It's simple.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Israel attacks Lebanon because Lebanon provided support to terrorists to kill and kidnap Israeli civilians. Oh, its Lebanon's fault. Israel attacks Egypt before Egypt does a Yom Kippur, Oh it's Egypt's fault. Israel attacks Jordan because Jordan was stupid enough to go for Israel first. Oh, it's Jordans fault. Yeah, the Arabs are completely innocent and Israel is just a pig of a nation isn't it? Your anti-semetic tirade is ridiculous.

Lol. I dislike Israel so that makes me Anti-semitic? You need to look up the definition of Semite. In fact, because you won't, I'll do it for you:
In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎, translated as "name", Arabic: ساميّ‎) was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Akkadian, Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Phoenician, Tigre and Tigrinya among others. {from Wikipedia. Note the fucking bold.

Yeah that more or less proves my opinion of you. Answer any of my above post or did you center on the snipe at you in the last line?

Wait what? According to you, Egypt provokes Israel into an act of self-defence, but the entire blame for the conflict rests on... Israel? Read that sentence again, over and over, and maybe you will twig as to why I cannot understand why Israel is at fault. Egypt didn't just provoke them, it was two days away from annexing them. Israel was damned lucky it got in first. The war wouldn't have been started if Egypt didn't want more lebensraum. Again, much anti-semitism or what? Or do you just really hate Israel?

By attacking Egypt first, by all standards of definition and international law, Israel started the 6 Day War. It doesn't matter what Egypt and the other Arab states intended, because, guess what, we weren't debating whether Israel's actions were justifiable or not. We were discussing who started the war. And by attacking Egypt first, Israel started the war. When will that penetrate that nuclear power station grade thickness skull of yours?

Here we go again. Israel started the Six Day war because they were left with no other choice but to attack Egypt. The Arab states are completely innocent because they have the right to plot to invade Israel and prepare to carry through with it. Oh I get it. A nation has no right to defend itself from an attack which it knows will happen. Israel shouldn't have acted until Tel-Aviv was being bombed. Riiight.

Thank you for, finally admitting it. But, yet again, you missed where I said that Israel was justified in attacking first. And please, point out where I said the Arabs states were completely innocent. Of course, that'd require you to actually read a post

.
The admittance to Israel starting the war was sarcasm, as was the rest of the post. You couldn't figure that out? I thought it was bloody obvious. Point where you said the Arabs are innocent? Well if you claim that Israel is the only one that started the war then the Arabs surely didn't start it so how can they be blamed for a conflict they didn't start? You made no attempt whatsover to say Israel was justified in attacking first, you continue to blame them for starting a war which they were more of less were dragged into.

Just continue to backflip and change your tune every post bro. It really doesn't matter. I suppose you are going to give me some bullshit justification which explains how Israel soley started the war yet the Arabs are the ones to blame.

Face facts. Even if Israel hadn't have acted, the war would have started anyway. If the Arabs hadn't mobilized, the war would have never started. The Arab states were ready for conflict, you yourself admitted it.

Hence why I also 'admitted' Israel was justified in it's actions during the 6 Day War.

Of course it was justified. How can you sit there and argue that Israel was the sole reason for the conflict? If you honestly think a conflict isn't started until someone swings a punch then you really need to wake up to yourself and get out more.

Let me put this in your perspective. If I sit here and troll you into flaming me and you get a warning for it while I get off for free, is that really fair? You can apply the same principle to the Middle East. Israel's actions are controversial and far from perfect but I cannot understand how you can point every inch of the blame onto them while you defend the Arab states which vehemently swear to remove Israel from the earth.

Show where I pointed 'every inch of blame onto Israel'. I have said, several times in this thread, that both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist. And nice analogy, except if I flame you and get warned, neither of us dies.

Well if you don't blame the Arab states then every inch of the blame is on Israel isn't it? Of course blaming the Arabs would mean admitting they started the war.

You can call me a liar all you want, but that's just a knee-jerk reaction because you know that you fucked up by saying the Arabs are completely blameless. Hell, everyone else knows you fucked up too. Even the Arabs themselves know you fucked up. You don't have factual information as to what happened and what continues to happen in the Middle East, you only have your opinions. And guess what? Your opinions are all wrong. The Arab states are not innocent in this conflict no matter how hard you try to shift the blame to Israel.

And again, show me where I said the Arab states were blameless or admit you're lying.

It's simple.

Real simple bro. If you don't accept the Arabs played a part in starting the war then you really aren't blaming them for anything are you? How the hell can you blame a nation for a conflict it didn't start?

[Novograd IV]

Not in Eurovisions contests they don't.

[Terbizond]

Yes, they do. But what they don't have the right to, is to invade their neighbors....

[Kubrath]

There is no nation on earth that I can think of that isn't currently sitting on land that used to belong to somebody else.

^ Wisdom. Also, one nation has a right to exist as much as the other. So, what if they have terrorists or whatnot? Germany had Hitler, Russia had Stalin, China had Mao Tse-Tung, etc. Should these nations cease to exist?

[Der Teutoniker]

Yes, they do. But what they don't have the right to, is to invade their neighbors....

Why not? Every current nation conquered someone else to be who they are. Why does Israelnot deserve the same right?

[St George of England]

Lol. I dislike Israel so that makes me Anti-semitic? You need to look up the definition of Semite. In fact, because you won't, I'll do it for you:
In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎, translated as "name", Arabic: ساميّ‎) was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Akkadian, Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Phoenician, Tigre and Tigrinya among others. {from Wikipedia. Note the fucking bold.

Yeah that more or less proves my opinion of you. Answer any of my above post or did you center on the snipe at you in the last line?

By attacking Egypt first, by all standards of definition and international law, Israel started the 6 Day War. It doesn't matter what Egypt and the other Arab states intended, because, guess what, we weren't debating whether Israel's actions were justifiable or not. We were discussing who started the war. And by attacking Egypt first, Israel started the war. When will that penetrate that nuclear power station grade thickness skull of yours? Thank you for, finally admitting it. But, yet again, you missed where I said that Israel was justified in attacking first. And please, point out where I said the Arabs states were completely innocent. Of course, that'd require you to actually read a post

.
The admittance to Israel starting the war was sarcasm, as was the rest of the post. You couldn't figure that out? I thought it was bloody obvious. Point where you said the Arabs are innocent? Well if you claim that Israel is the only one that started the war then the Arabs surely didn't start it so how can they be blamed for a conflict they didn't start? You made no attempt whatsover to say Israel was justified in attacking first, you continue to blame them for starting a war which they were more of less were dragged into.

Just continue to backflip and change your tune every post bro. It really doesn't matter. I suppose you are going to give me some bullshit justification which explains how Israel soley started the war yet the Arabs are the ones to blame.

Hence why I also 'admitted' Israel was justified in it's actions during the 6 Day War.

Of course it was justified. How can you sit there and argue that Israel was the sole reason for the conflict? If you honestly think a conflict isn't started until someone swings a punch then you really need to wake up to yourself and get out more.

Show where I pointed 'every inch of blame onto Israel'. I have said, several times in this thread, that both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist. And nice analogy, except if I flame you and get warned, neither of us dies.

Well if you don't blame the Arab states then every inch of the blame is on Israel isn't it? Of course blaming the Arabs would mean admitting they started the war.

And again, show me where I said the Arab states were blameless or admit you're lying.

It's simple.

Real simple bro. If you don't accept the Arabs played a part in starting the war then you really aren't blaming them for anything are you? How the hell can you blame a nation for a conflict it didn't start?

Seriously? You really have the time to sit around and pull bullshit out of your ass? Wow, your life must be empty. And, yet again, you've failed to point out where, in any of my posts in this thread, I said the Arab states were blameless. Please do so, or, for once, admit you were lying.

It's not hard, unless you're retarded.

[The Soviet Technocracy]

You, my friend, are cheering for Goliath.

I don't actually see it like that. Israel is David to the combined forces of anti-zionism that makes up Goliath.

No, it's still Goliath.

Israel has the world's most powerful economies and military powers at its ass right now. Namely the USA.

Lol. I dislike Israel so that makes me Anti-semitic? You need to look up the definition of Semite. In fact, because you won't, I'll do it for you:
In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎, translated as "name", Arabic: ساميّ‎) was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Akkadian, Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Phoenician, Tigre and Tigrinya among others. {from Wikipedia. Note the fucking bold.

Yeah that more or less proves my opinion of you. Answer any of my above post or did you center on the snipe at you in the last line?

1) How do you prove an opinion.

2) Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism. Now you're sounding like the American Tea Party and AIPAC. Just because he dislikes Israel's foreign policy and government doesn't mean he hates Jews.

[Costa Fiero]

It's not hard, unless you're retarded.

Pot. Calling. Kettle. Black. Again. My God, have you not learned?

[Al-Khadhulu]

Hudson: Let's just bug out and call it even, OK? What are we talking about this for?
Ripley: I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Hudson: F*ckin' A...
Burke: Ho-ho-hold on, hold on one second. This installation has a substantial dollar value attached to it.
Ripley: They can bill me.

Would anyone really miss the Middle East if was all turned to glass?

I assume the families of the .8 billion people living there would.

I don't see that as a compelling reason not to turn it to glass.

One death is a tragedy. 0.8 Billion is a statistic - attributed to Comrade Joe, the unhinged genocidal rabble-rouser (much admired in Europe).

[Vitaphone Racing]

Yeah that more or less proves my opinion of you. Answer any of my above post or did you center on the snipe at you in the last line?

.
The admittance to Israel starting the war was sarcasm, as was the rest of the post. You couldn't figure that out? I thought it was bloody obvious. Point where you said the Arabs are innocent? Well if you claim that Israel is the only one that started the war then the Arabs surely didn't start it so how can they be blamed for a conflict they didn't start? You made no attempt whatsover to say Israel was justified in attacking first, you continue to blame them for starting a war which they were more of less were dragged into.

Just continue to backflip and change your tune every post bro. It really doesn't matter. I suppose you are going to give me some bullshit justification which explains how Israel soley started the war yet the Arabs are the ones to blame.



Of course it was justified. How can you sit there and argue that Israel was the sole reason for the conflict? If you honestly think a conflict isn't started until someone swings a punch then you really need to wake up to yourself and get out more.


Well if you don't blame the Arab states then every inch of the blame is on Israel isn't it? Of course blaming the Arabs would mean admitting they started the war.



Real simple bro. If you don't accept the Arabs played a part in starting the war then you really aren't blaming them for anything are you? How the hell can you blame a nation for a conflict it didn't start?

Seriously? You really have the time to sit around and pull bullshit out of your ass? Wow, your life must be empty. And, yet again, you've failed to point out where, in any of my posts in this thread, I said the Arab states were blameless. Please do so, or, for once, admit you were lying.

It's not hard, unless you're retarded.

I translate the above as "I can't win this argument so instead I am going to make a personal attack and restate things which I have already said a dozen times." Flaming? Really? Is that how you debate? That is really sad because before this I actually thought you were someone worth my time but now I really don't have any drive to continue this argument.

If you bothered to read my post above you would clearly note where I said that it would be impossible to say the Arab states bear part of the blame if they had no part in starting the conflict. Now, you maintain that Israel is the only nation that started the conflict, so you really aren't blaming the Arabs at all are you? So you can either choose between the Arabs starting the war or the Arabs being totally innocent, your call.

Here is a cute bunny. Maybe this will calm you down.