Islam: A violent religion?

[Jahada]

Name one way in which Jesus' moral teachings were superior to Muhammad's.

"Conduct." His moral teachings were a superfluous rehash, along with circumstantial ad-hoc legislation.

Well gee, that sure helps. Now name one way in which his conduct was superior to Muhammad's.

Since you didn't answer my question, I would like to point out the Zakat is one of the nobler aspects of Islam.

Oh, and for what its worth:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

In other words, wrongdoers need not be punished.

For that kind of thing, we leave it up to God. We Muslims consider it blasphemy to put word's in God's mouth and say who is going where after they die, unlike Christians, some of whom will bluntly go around telling non-Christians they're all going to hell*. But I will say that I personally believe people like Gandhi will be rewarded somehow. After all, the Quran does say, "Whoever does an atom's weight of good shall see it."

*Not an attack on Christianity or Christians in general

Nonesense. The Qur'an perfectly states that if anyone desires any other religion that Islam "Never will it be accepted of him." with some vague passages seeming to suggest an exception for Jews, Sabbians, (what the hell are they anyway?) and Christians. That you are not allowed to point at any one individual and make predictions does not discount the fact that polytheism is not acceptable in Islam, and polytheists do not go to heaven, whatever their good works.

The bolded: When it speaks of "Islam" in this context, it is using the literal meaning of the word, which is "submission to the will of God." In other words, any way of life other that submission-to-God's-will will not be accepted.

With that said, it is reasonable to say that, to some extent, the kind of things that Gandhi was doing were part of submission-to-God's-will. Even if he didn't do it in the name of Islam, his deeds were Islamic, and therefore, it is unwise to say he's going to hell for not being a "Muslim" in the commonly-used sense of the word.

And the Quran does say that God can make exceptions whenever he wants to. "He bestows His mercy upon whom He wills, and taketh it away from whom He wills." So even saying, "all polytheists go to hell", is unacceptable.

That the lack of a divine punishment on earth wouldn't prohibit the functioning of secular laws, with regard to keeping people accountable for their crimes? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

What I meant was, it's not part of the religion itself. Christianity doesn't say, "don't punish people for sins, but go ahead and make secular laws to punish them".

This is what you support.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h ... 29,r:4,s:0

Hardly forgiving is it?

First of all, I do not supporting stoning. It's archaic and pretty disgusting.

Secondly, forgiveness is an important part of Islam. The Quran says "God will show no mercy to those who show no mercy to others." If someone is truly sorry about their actions, it is un-Islamic to not give them another chance.

Again; tell me, how would Sweden and Japan benefit from accepting shariah law?

Actually, implementing the law system wouldn't help at all unless the people's attitudes change. A lot of people nowadays are "morally decadent" from an Islamic point of view, and so Shariah law wouldn't help them because they would still socially accept the actions that are prohibited by Shariah law.

In other words, if you ban extramarital sex, people are still going to think it's ok. They still won't hold marriage and sex to be as important as they should be. If you ban alcohol, people are still going to thing that's ok too. Etcetera.

Really, that handful is enough for me if it advocates fucking killing someone for...well...fucking. And since you beleive in the afterlife, don't you beleive that God will punish them anway, if you are so worried about accountability?

The point of worldy punishments is to set an example.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Jahada: before we continue - what is your preferred punishment for adultery and fornication? I will have to respond to you post, point by point, tommorow.

The point of worldy punishments is to set an example.

If you're going to insist on a punishment as harsh as killing someone for fornication, you have to be prepared to rationally justify why consensual sex is morally wrong. I actually dislike frivoulous sex, and think adultery is wrong as well - I am not willing to kill someone over it. That is insane. And honestly, I can't think of any culture where adultery is socially acceptable anyway.

Also, despite however reprehensible I am finding some of your views, the tone of my last response was unnecessarily aggressive and I apologize.

[Jahada]

Jahada: before we continue - what is your preferred punishment for adultery and fornication? I will have to respond to you post, point by point, tommorow.

First of all, it's important to clearly defined fornication and adultery, to avoid confusion. A fornicator is an unmarried person who has sex with any other person, regardless of the second person's marital status. An adulterer is any married person who has sex with anyone whom they are not married too, regardless of the second person's marital status.

With that said, I fully support the Islamic punishment for fornicators, which is 100 lashes, separated into several sessions.

Adultery is a little more complicated. The punishment for adultery is death, but the traditional way of doing it is by stoning. I personally am against stoning. I support other methods, such as lethal injection. After all, death is death, so I would rather make it as un-gruesome as possible.

However, since forgiveness is important in Islam, I support giving adulterers second chances if they are genuinely sorry and promise to not to it again. But I do not support letting fornicators off the hook, because 100 lashes is not even remotely as serious as death.

Also, despite however reprehensible I am finding some of your views, the tone of my last response was unnecessarily aggressive and I apologize.

I was going to call you out on that, but thank you for this.

[Baltenstein]

With that said, I fully support the Islamic punishment for fornicators, which is 100 lashes, separated into several sessions.

Adultery is a little more complicated. The punishment for adultery is death, but the traditional way of doing it is by stoning. I personally am against stoning. I support other methods, such as lethal injection. After all, death is death, so I would rather make it as un-gruesome as possible.

However, since forgiveness is important in Islam, I support giving adulterers second chances if they are genuinely sorry and promise to not to it again. But I do not support letting fornicators off the hook, because 100 lashes is not even remotely as serious as death.

You totally deserve having your religious views criticized, ridiculed and prohibited for shit like that. Seriously, I can somewhat get the logic behind severe punishments for murderers, rapists, robbers etc., but how is punishing consentual sex with the death penalty even remotely proportional!?

EDIT:

Sorry for the outburst, I was going to type in a merely moderately critical remark when I read about the lashing, but the consideration of various execution methods is kinda freaking me out.

[The Corparation]

Wow. A shitstorm over a single short post I made. Just get over it.

[SunsSon]

I'm a bit surprised this is even a topic but then again this is the internets. So I probably shouldn't be. ;-)

I don't find Islam violent. I enjoy studying it, and I find myself fortunate that I have found people on campus or otherwise that I can go up to and ask questions if I am confused about something. Its very interesting and very loving. There are crazy sects of all religions, but overall I don't think there is any one violent religion in this world. Well, I think satanism is violent, but I honestly have not looked into it.

[Augarundus]

It depends on the interpreter, like all religions.

OP =/= "Are Muslims violent?"

OP = "Is Islam violent?"


...


And yes, it is.

[Zirconim]

There is no violent religion. Only violent religious people.

[Innsmothe]

It depends on the interpreter, like all religions.

OP =/= "Are Muslims violent?"

OP = "Is Islam violent?"


...


And yes, it is.

Same thing.
There is no one Islamic ideology, thus Islam as a blanket cannot be labelled anything, only the differing beliefs can.

[Isla De Militarias]

i beileve you have radicals in every religon.......

[Jahada]

You know, the death penalty for adultery really isn't a big deal at all, considering we have this handy-dandy thing called divorce.

[SunsSon]

You know, the death penalty for adultery really isn't a big deal at all, considering we have this handy-dandy thing call divorce.

I remember reading Muslim women were the first women in the world allowed to file for divorce (and own a business. neat!).

[Jahada]

You know, the death penalty for adultery really isn't a big deal at all, considering we have this handy-dandy thing call divorce.

I remember reading Muslim women were the first women in the world allowed to file for divorce (and own a business. neat!).

Yes. Muhammad gave women rights that were unheard of in the west for over a thousand years after him.

[Serviss]

all religions is violent

[The Corparation]

all religions is violent

Yeah because its not like the mainstream members of most religions advocate peace and tolerance... Oh wait they do.

[Yootwopia]

all religions is violent

Yeah because its not like the mainstream members of most religions advocate peace and tolerance... Oh wait they do.

Yeah on the other hand if you pick and choose then you're not a very good member of any religion. You might be a better person for it, but that's a different thing entirely.

[Innsmothe]

all religions is violent

Fallacy.

Buddhism, One Christian belief (the 17th century commune thing.), the original Britannic pagan faiths etc

[Zeth Rekia]

Hey, man... Just give it some time. It'll be up there with Christianity and all that other BS in no time.

[Baltenstein]

You know, the death penalty for adultery really isn't a big deal at all, considering we have this handy-dandy thing called divorce.

You know, bombing civilian centers isn't a big deal at all, considering we have this handy-dandy thing called "Not-being-in-a-civilian-center-while-it-is-being-bombarded".
Makes as much sense.

And you still haven't explained why the death penalty for consensual sex is supposed to be proportional. Or just. Or sane.

[SunsSon]

I remember reading Muslim women were the first women in the world allowed to file for divorce (and own a business. neat!).

Yes. Muhammad gave women rights that were unheard of in the west for over a thousand years after him.

Can I ask you about women opening businesses in the middle east? I'm assuming your Muslim given your sig, but I could be wrong. I've been told that women and men are set apart from each other (family/bachelor sections of stores, etc), so if a woman owns a business, she cannot interact with the men that work there unless they are apart of her family, correct? Does this mean that there is a man in these businesses that act as a go between between the woman and the employees (should the employees be all men, and I'm under the impression that usually, people that work are either men or expats).

I could be entirely off by this, because I am rather confused about the situation. But I would love to do business in the middle east when I open my own multinational.

[Baltenstein]

Can I ask you about women opening businesses in the middle east? I'm assuming your Muslim given your sig, but I could be wrong. I've been told that women and men are set apart from each other (family/bachelor sections of stores, etc), so if a woman owns a business, she cannot interact with the men that work there unless they are apart of her family, correct?

One solution could be for the male employees to suck on their boss's titties to pretend that they are mother and son:

In order to reduce the difficulties of strict sex segregation in modern life, some clerics issued a fatwa encouraging women to provide breast milk to any man with whom she comes into regular contact. Abdel Mohsen Obeikan, a renowned Islamic scholar, an adviser to the royal court and consultant to the Ministry of Justice, said in 2010: "The man should take the milk, but not directly from the breast of the woman. He should drink it and then becomes a relative of the family, a fact that allows him to come in contact with the women without breaking Islam's rules about mixing." Breast milk kinship is indeed considered to be as good as a blood relationship in Islam and this way, for example foreign drivers can mix freely with all members of the family without breaking the Islamic rule which does not allow mixing of genders. Another cleric disagreed, saying the man should take the milk straight from her breast. The issue moved one female Saudi blogger to ridicule: "The whole issue just shows how clueless men are. All this back and forth between sheiks and not one bothers to ask a woman if it's logical, let alone possible to breastfeed a grown man five fulfilling breast milk meals. Moreover, the thought of a huge hairy face at a woman's breast does not evoke motherly or even brotherly feelings. It could go from the grotesque to the erotic but definitely not maternal."

The "breast milk" fatwa became a rallying point for right-to-drive activists. They have threatened to start breastfeeding professional drivers, so that they can travel without violating segregation laws: "We either be allowed to drive or breastfeed foreigners."

Somehow I doubt that'll catch on.

[Sierra Lobo]

One solution could be for the male employees to suck on their boss's titties to pretend that they are mother and son:

And is this breast feeding fatwa enforced today?

It do not seems like a good example on how to promote the liberal women's right is under islam.

[Jahada]

You know, the death penalty for adultery really isn't a big deal at all, considering we have this handy-dandy thing called divorce.

You know, bombing civilian centers isn't a big deal at all, considering we have this handy-dandy thing called "Not-being-in-a-civilian-center-while-it-is-being-bombarded".
Makes as much sense.

Drawing false parallels only makes you look like a fool.

Can I ask you about women opening businesses in the middle east? I'm assuming your Muslim given your sig, but I could be wrong. I've been told that women and men are set apart from each other (family/bachelor sections of stores, etc), so if a woman owns a business, she cannot interact with the men that work there unless they are apart of her family, correct? Does this mean that there is a man in these businesses that act as a go between between the woman and the employees (should the employees be all men, and I'm under the impression that usually, people that work are either men or expats).

I could be entirely off by this, because I am rather confused about the situation. But I would love to do business in the middle east when I open my own multinational.

I'd imagine that it's extremely hard for a woman to run a business in the middle east because the middle is a screwed up hellhole with not a shred of Islam in it. As for gender segregation, that really only happens in Saudi Arabia.

Now, in Islam, I'm pretty sure women can work with unrelated men in a business, as long as it's with a completely professional attitude and with no "funny business".

[Jahada]

One solution could be for the male employees to suck on their boss's titties to pretend that they are mother and son:

And is this breast feeding fatwa enforced today?

I do not seem this is a good example how to promote how liberal women's right is under islam.

That fatwa is laughable in how unrelated it is to Islam.

[Sierra Lobo]

And is this breast feeding fatwa enforced today?

I do not seem this is a good example how to promote how liberal women's right is under islam.

That fatwa is laughable in how unrelated it is to Islam.

I agree with you on that. Still a scholar endorsed this.