Feminist man-haters

[Muravyets]

You're a weird, sick old lady Muravyets, and although you'd be the first to admit it...

Well, somebody has to be.

Well I never!

*mutters about women who seem to think they can contribute to men's talk*

The patting of bums between two red-blooded healthy males is nothing more than a hearty symbol of male sensibility and Christian fellowship, I cannot expect a woman to understand for they do not possess the intellectual capacity.

*snorts and combs mustache*

Apparently, you've never met Neo Art.


(He is so going to slam me.)

[The Cat-Tribe]

Unless its a 100% majority then some men get raped and therefore rape hurts men.

No, it means that rape hurts some men. Unless it's a massive majority like the amount of rape cases where the woman is the victim, it's not an issue directly involved with one's gender.

Then, why, pray tell, did you raise it as evidence of feminists anti-male agenda??

[Neo Art]

(He is so going to slam me.)

And you're going to like it.

[The Cat-Tribe]

And I (and others) explained why your "list of reasons" are (1) inherently sexist, (2) stupid, (3) utterly inadequate, and (4) fueled almost completely by your own prejudices.

Define sexism. Because if you classify it as the "notion that men and women are inherently different" then yes my argument is very sexist. If other wise, maybe not.

No. Feminist support giving women the entire control OVER THEIR OWN BODIES.

The policy only serves to give women the deciding edge over the future child. If the man wants to have the child, he is subject to the woman's whim. It is pro-female and anti-male.

Meaningles pablum without concrete examples. At the abstract level, this is untrue. From NOW's statement of purpose (emphasis added): "The purpose of NOW is to take action to bring women into full participation in the mainstream of American society now, exercising all the privileges and responsibilities thereof in truly equal partnership with men."

Spare me.

Flat out LIE: http://www.now.org/issues/military/policies/wim.html

Oh wow, they have a web page. That definently classifies as serious attempt. It's nothing more than oratory.

Another flat out LIE: http://www.now.org/issues/military/policies/draft2.html

Same here.

rape hurts both men and women. Second, there is no equivalence between laws against rape and "social rules such as the 'men never hit women' rule." That you would even try to equate them is fucking sick.

*rolls eyes* How does rape hurt men? Aside from the fact that if caught they go to jail and possibly get the death penalty?

Bullshit. For example, from NOW's statement of purpose:

WE REJECT the current assumptions that a man must carry the sole burden of supporting himself, his wife, and family, and that a woman is automatically entitled to lifelong support by a man upon her marriage, or that marriage, home and family are primarily woman's world and responsibility -- hers, to dominate -- his to support. We believe that a true partnership between the sexes demands a different concept of marriage, an equitable sharing of the responsibilities of home and children and of the economic burdens of their support. We believe that proper recognition should be given to the economic and social value of homemaking and child-care. To these ends, we will seek to open a reexamination of laws and mores governing marriage and divorce, for we believe that the current state of `half-equity" between the sexes discriminates against both men and women, and is the cause of much unnecessary hostility between the sexes.

...

WE BELIEVE THAT women will do most to create a new image of women by acting now, and by speaking out in behalf of their own equality, freedom, and human dignity - - not in pleas for special privilege, nor in enmity toward men, who are also victims of the current, half-equality between the sexes - - but in an active, self-respecting partnership with men. By so doing, women will develop confidence in their own ability to determine actively, in partnership with men, the conditions of their life, their choices, their future and their society.

They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk if you understand the meaning of the phrase.

YOU are the one that expressly stated anti-feminism was pro-male biased. YOU have further illustrated this point with your own "males are superior" bullshit.

You stated that anti-feminism is anti-female. And the study that you're defending states that it's anti-male. Add the two together and that means that they hate absolutely everyone. So I'll ask you again: Do anti-feminists hate everyone and if so on what grounds?

In other words, your assertions -- even though unsupported by any evidence and directly contradicted by actual evidence -- can't be disputed because you "know" they are true.

And then you whine that people haven't addressed your "arguments."

[Bottle]

Calling it gay/bi rape was sloppy on my part. I just should have said "Anal sex". I realize that straight men, all men, can participate in the rape of other men. It isn't confined to sexuality.

Minor quibble:

Please, never refer to rape of ANY kind as "sex." Sex is (or at least should be) a term for mutual sexual contact. Do not say that a rapist "had sex with" his victim. That implies that the victim was participating in their own rape, and it's every bit as fucked up as if you described a mugging as a "transaction" between two people.

I know you don't mean it that way. It's very commonly used language, and I myself have absorbed it and sometimes slip up. It's just one of those little things that makes a really big difference in how people talk about rape.

So if you want to refer to men being raped, you can call it anal or oral rape, or assault, or unwanted touch. Just please help stamp out the continued blurring of the line between sex and rape.

/endquibble

[Bottle]

*rolls eyes* How does rape hurt men? Aside from the fact that if caught they go to jail and possibly get the death penalty?

You dont...I mean it didn't occur…I mean…how the…alright, when confronted with the phrase "rape hurts men and women" you immediately go to the image of man as the rapist, and not the raped? Are you fucking shitting me? Did the thought that golly gee, men get raped too, just not penetrate your skull?

Or how about the thought that heterosexual men are "hurt" when women are constantly terrorized by the threat of rape?

I know it's a wacky notion, but there are heterosexual men who would actually prefer to live in a world where women feel able to make confident and assertive choices about sex. There are heterosexual men who'd prefer to live in a world where their female friends can walk home alone without having to fear rape.

There are heterosexual men who recognize that when women are constantly told, "If you consent to any kind of sexual activity then you're a slut who deserves to get raped," this may cause women to decline sex and/or refuse to initiate sex even when the women would like to have sex.

There are heterosexual men who realize that when women are constantly told that going to a bar and having a drink means that they deserve to be raped, this will decrease the number of women who go to bars.

There are heterosexual men who realize that when women are taught that they must always be on guard against rapists because it's the woman's responsibility to prevent rape, this will lower the chances that a woman will be willing to talk to them or give them her number or anything else at all.

An orientation speaker at my college once told a group of students that girls should never admit to liking sex if they're in a mixed gender group, because if boys hear that she likes sex then she's going to get raped. Seriously. And, to my surprise and delight, the person who called that speaker out for being a complete douchenozzle was a heterosexual guy who found it absolutely fucking sick that anybody would blame a woman for getting herself raped simply by admitting that she likes something that pretty much everybody likes. Heterosexual guys can recognize how their own lives are worse if women are told they must never admit to liking sex.

If you are an adult male who is not in prison, your odds of being raped are astronomically low. But your odds of dealing with the fallout from our rape culture are 100%. If you ever have any interaction with female human beings, you're going to end up having to deal with rape culture. And it is my belief that your quality of life is worse because all the women in your world have to live under the constant threat of rape.

[BunnySaurus Bugsii]

Um, did we ever get a working link to the published study ? The one cited in the OP ?

[Cybach]

Could very well be. To be honest I am not too adverse to the goals of contemporary feminist, note, I abhor the fundamentalist feminist. But the actual idea of the cessation of prejudices, pre-conceived stereotypes/expectations and equal social standing is fairly appealing to me. Since it benefits not only women, but also myself as a man. Or any future sons I would have.

I am now more or less conditioned to mainstream expectations. I wear masculine clothing, in masculine colors. I sport a masculine hair cut, i.e very short and clean-cut. Same, I am on the receiving ends of pressure that my sister never had to go through. Both my parents didn't seem to mind too much that my sister was rather callous in terms of getting a career, and was even allowed more freedom in terms of following her desires. It's been made fairly clear, from both my father and mother from the start, that I as a male. Have the obligation to become a "breadwinner," I got pushed harder to succeed in school. Also the pressure to find a nice woman, to settle down and have children with is not exactly small either. Late 20s or early 30s the latest. To be fair though, in my youth I had an adoration for the color purple. I wanted to actually do ballet, also at one point out of curiosity wanted a barbie. To say the least, my father was not amused. My mother took a rather neutral view, slightly disapproving view towards it. Nonetheless, by the time I was 12-13 blue "became" my favorite color, I was enrolled in two different sport leagues and I had a multitude of toy guns. So "proper education" seems to have worked in my case, and my father was averted the heart attack of having a son who did ballet in his free time and wore purple jackets/sweaters.

But my point being. It would be nice to live in a world without the gender shelves, and where a child is free to use the toys it wishes to, and dress in the colors it wants without having to fear rejection from society. This is one of the positive sides in contemporary feminism I support, the eradication of the strict gender roles. Which are just as bad, if not worse for young men than they are for women in the amount of restrictions they place on what is acceptable conduct.

[Poliwanacraca]

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin, Ice and Fire, (Weidenfeld & Nicholson, 1987)

"Look, my friend, I've got to commit a murder tonight." - Ian Fleming

"Your father's no better than the niggers and trash he works for." - Harper Lee

"I'm demoniac, I am madness maddened!" - Herman Melville

"I was and am the Dark Lord's most loyal servant." - J.K. Rowling

Man, novelists are really some horrible, crazy people!

[Concurria]

Calling it gay/bi rape was sloppy on my part. I just should have said "Anal sex". I realize that straight men, all men, can participate in the rape of other men. It isn't confined to sexuality.

Minor quibble:

Please, never refer to rape of ANY kind as "sex." Sex is (or at least should be) a term for mutual sexual contact. Do not say that a rapist "had sex with" his victim. That implies that the victim was participating in their own rape, and it's every bit as fucked up as if you described a mugging as a "transaction" between two people.

I know you don't mean it that way. It's very commonly used language, and I myself have absorbed it and sometimes slip up. It's just one of those little things that makes a really big difference in how people talk about rape.

So if you want to refer to men being raped, you can call it anal or oral rape, or assault, or unwanted touch. Just please help stamp out the continued blurring of the line between sex and rape.

/endquibble

This is very wise. But I have a quote that I think speaks to the contrary by an author who can spell it out better than I can. I need to locate that book when I return home, so give me a few hours.

In the mean time, ice cream for everyone!!