Feminist man-haters

[Fleckenstein]

We also are limited in how we view rape, too. Active male sexuality is viewed as an erection, but active female sexuality would (probably) be most typically viewed as the simple act of her consent. I think it's hard for most people to realize that a man laying down on a bed with an erection is not consent for a partner to come sit on him.

It also utterly ignores the reality of how most male victims of rape are actually raped.

Not necessarily. Arousal is a physical response to stimuli, not always a mental one.

Or for your level, girls can rape too!

[Ifreann]

I don't know why you'd infer "Rape hurts a massive majority of both men and women" from "Rape hurts both men and women". But there you go.

Ok. Fine. But let's rephrase it further: Rape hurts both men and women but it hurts women more and that's why the feminists choose to focus on it.

Sounds about right to me. Why wouldn't feminists focus on a problem that effects women? Rape prevention isn't really their goal, specifically, but preventing victimisation of women where possible certainly sounds like someone a feminist group would have an interest in.

[Greater Americania]

I'm just not even sure in what twisted sense this argument is supposed to be coherent. Feminists are anti-male because they are...anti-rape.

What the fuck?

I'm sick and fucking tired of these strawman arguments. I'm done. Read my posts. Answer them and my arguments directly. Don't put words in my mouth. Then and only then can we have an intelligent debate.

[Fleckenstein]

Then and only then can we have an intelligent debate.

No True Scotsman. . .the entire concept of debate?

[Muravyets]

I don't know why you'd infer "Rape hurts a massive majority of both men and women" from "Rape hurts both men and women". But there you go.

Ok. Fine. But let's rephrase it further: Rape hurts both men and women but it hurts women more and that's why the feminists choose to focus on it.

So you have evidence that shows that feminists do not support rape counseling for men? Or enforcement of the law on behalf of male victims of rape? Oh, wait, you don't, because they do support such things. Maybe you have some personal observations you'd like to tell us about.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I don't know why you'd infer "Rape hurts a massive majority of both men and women" from "Rape hurts both men and women". But there you go.

Ok. Fine. But let's rephrase it further: Rape hurts both men and women but it hurts women more and that's why the feminists choose to focus on it.

So you have evidence that shows that feminists do not support rape counseling for men? Or enforcement of the law on behalf of male victims of rape? Oh, wait, you don't, because they do support such things. Maybe you have some personal observations you'd like to tell us about.

He does. He is opposed to the feminist movement. Completely.

[Neo Art]

I'm just not even sure in what twisted sense this argument is supposed to be coherent. Feminists are anti-male because they are...anti-rape.

What the fuck?

I'm sick and fucking tired of these strawman arguments. I'm done. Read my posts. Answer them and my arguments directly. Don't put words in my mouth. Then and only then can we have an intelligent debate.

If you make shitty arguments, you get responses they deserve. Let me try to make YOUR argument FOR YOU, since you do such a piss poor job of it. This is the argument that you're TRYING to make, and failing.

*cough* ok, here goes:

"if feminism was about addressing gender equality in all regards, and not merely inequality that hurts women over men, they'd also work to address issues in which men are adversely impacted. By explicitly choosing to focus their efforts on resolving issues in which women are the adversely impacted gender, and not also resolving issues in which men are the adversely impacted gender, the feminist movement demonstrates that they are not necessarily all about gender equality, but only resolving gender inequality when it favors women. Otherwise they'd also address instances of gender inequality adversely impacting men".

There, that's YOUR ARGUMENT for you, condensed, and nice and neat. That's what, I think, you've been TRYING to say, and failing.

Now since we've described what your actual argument is, without the spitle and vitrol, the next response is this. OK, you think feminists should address areas that adversely impact men as well, to demonstrate that they are for equality in ALL regards? Alright...name one.

[Soheran]

I think homosexual/bisexual rape is something that falls so far outside our typical thoughts, it isn't even considered.

It's not generally gay/bi men who do it (though sometimes it is). Male-on-male rape is pretty close to the old and somewhat oversimplified phrase that "it's about power, not sex"--in places where it occurs at systemic levels, like prisons, gay men are actually often disproportionately targeted for their "effeminacy."

[Concurria]

I think homosexual/bisexual rape is something that falls so far outside our typical thoughts, it isn't even considered.

It's not generally gay/bi men who do it (though sometimes it is). Male-on-male rape is pretty close to the old and somewhat oversimplified dictum that "it's about power, not sex"--in places where it occurs at systemic levels, like prisons, gay men are actually often disproportionately targeted for their "effeminacy."

Calling it gay/bi rape was sloppy on my part. I just should have said "Anal sex". I realize that straight men, all men, can participate in the rape of other men. It isn't confined to sexuality.

[Muravyets]

I don't know why you'd infer "Rape hurts a massive majority of both men and women" from "Rape hurts both men and women". But there you go.

Ok. Fine. But let's rephrase it further: Rape hurts both men and women but it hurts women more and that's why the feminists choose to focus on it.

Even if a man is not raped, but a female friend or relative is, he will be hurt by the rape. If a child's mother is raped, the child will be hurt by this. If a man's wife is raped by another man, he will be hurt by this. Rape affects not just the women who are raped but also those they are close to. The immediate victim may get hurt more, but it affects everyone in her life to some extent.

Very true. In fact, the statement "rape hurts both men and women" can be read as "rape hurts society." Then the part of the feminist movement that focuses on sex crimes is benefitting all of society, both the male and female parts.

[Neo Art]

We also are limited in how we view rape, too. Active male sexuality is viewed as an erection, but active female sexuality would (probably) be most typically viewed as the simple act of her consent. I think it's hard for most people to realize that a man laying down on a bed with an erection is not consent for a partner to come sit on him.

It also utterly ignores the reality of how most male victims of rape are actually raped.

Not necessarily. Arousal is a physical response to stimuli, not always a mental one.

Or for your level, girls can rape too!

I am quite aware that it can, and does occur. I merely make the point that the majority of male rapes are not "she climbed on top of his physically stimulated member without his mental consent"

That happens, of course, but it's not a majority of instances.

[Fleckenstein]

I am quite aware that it can, and does occur. I merely make the point that the majority of male rapes are not "she climbed on top of his physically stimulated member without his mental consent"

That happens, of course, but it's not a majority of instances.

Ignore the snide comment, I didn't realize who posted that.

[Muravyets]

I think homosexual/bisexual rape is something that falls so far outside our typical thoughts, it isn't even considered.

Hell, I'm gay AND I DIDN'T CONSIDER IT! (Of course, granted, the only two men I know who have been raped were both raped with them as the penetrating, not the other way around.)

Most crime statistics I have read over the years indicate that rape by or among homosexuals is not the most common kind of rape of males. In fact, heterosexual male rapists are more likely to rape other males regardless of the victim's sexuality, as a crime of violent domination.

[Neo Art]

I am quite aware that it can, and does occur. I merely make the point that the majority of male rapes are not "she climbed on top of his physically stimulated member without his mental consent"

That happens, of course, but it's not a majority of instances.

Ignore the snide comment, I didn't realize who posted that.

I was kinda wondering about that "on your level" comment. I was sorta internally going "what the...he knows me, what's he mean on my level?" I figured I was misinterpreting....

[Concurria]

I think homosexual/bisexual rape is something that falls so far outside our typical thoughts, it isn't even considered.

Hell, I'm gay AND I DIDN'T CONSIDER IT! (Of course, granted, the only two men I know who have been raped were both raped with them as the penetrating, not the other way around.)

Most crime statistics I have read over the years indicate that rape by or among homosexuals is not the most common kind of rape of males. In fact, heterosexual male rapists are more likely to rape other males regardless of the victim's sexuality, as a crime of violent domination.

I clarified in my reply to Soheran: What I was actually trying to describe was a rape by anal penetration. "Homosexual/Bisexual" is what slipped out.

[Fleckenstein]

I was kinda wondering about that "on your level" comment. I was sorta internally going "what the...he knows me, what's he mean on my level?" I figured I was misinterpreting....

When you responded to it, I had an "oh shit" moment. I had assumed the character currently being logically gang raped (See? MEN GET RAPED TOO!) had posted it it.

If that comment literally was "on your level," I believe this debate would be taking place in the comments section of a youtube video.

[Concurria]

P.S.

All this talk about rape has my mind going wonky. You know that "Atom bombing of Hiroshima" topic on the front page?

I just read that as "Anal bombing."

[Muravyets]

I think homosexual/bisexual rape is something that falls so far outside our typical thoughts, it isn't even considered.

Hell, I'm gay AND I DIDN'T CONSIDER IT! (Of course, granted, the only two men I know who have been raped were both raped with them as the penetrating, not the other way around.)

Most crime statistics I have read over the years indicate that rape by or among homosexuals is not the most common kind of rape of males. In fact, heterosexual male rapists are more likely to rape other males regardless of the victim's sexuality, as a crime of violent domination.

I clarified in my reply to Soheran: What I was actually trying to describe was a rape by anal penetration. "Homosexual/Bisexual" is what slipped out.

I saw that after I posted, but I didn't change my post because as a general comment about male rape I want to leave it out there. A lot of hay is made from confusing gender-based rights issues by trying to compartmentalize social groups. So, female rape is somehow different from male rape, from gay rape, etc. Rape is rape, and the rape that feminists talk about is the exact same crime whether it is committed against women or men. It all just goes to further illustrate the utter ridiculousness of GA's arguments.

[Concurria]

Most crime statistics I have read over the years indicate that rape by or among homosexuals is not the most common kind of rape of males. In fact, heterosexual male rapists are more likely to rape other males regardless of the victim's sexuality, as a crime of violent domination.

I clarified in my reply to Soheran: What I was actually trying to describe was a rape by anal penetration. "Homosexual/Bisexual" is what slipped out.

I saw that after I posted, but I didn't change my post because as a general comment about male rape I want to leave it out there. A lot of hay is made from confusing gender-based rights issues by trying to compartmentalize social groups. So, female rape is somehow different from male rape, from gay rape, etc. Rape is rape, and the rape that feminists talk about is the exact same crime whether it is committed against women or men. It all just goes to further illustrate the utter ridiculousness of GA's arguments.

True.

[Barringtonia]

Meh, arguing someone who equates more males in business & politics to the superiority of male intelligence is, well it's rather like taking candy from babies.

[Neo Art]

I had such a good post and it got sidetracked by anal rape *sniff*

[Barringtonia]

I had such a good post and it got sidetracked by anal rape *sniff*

Aww.. *pats head*

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Meh, arguing someone who equates more males in business & politics to the superiority of male intelligence is, well it's rather like taking candy from babies.

The sad thing is that he gave me hell for trying to correct the flaws in his scientific reasoning, and implied that he already understood the concepts behind it. I guess giving a shit about factual accuracy is "elitist."

[Muravyets]

I had such a good post and it got sidetracked by anal rape *sniff*

Aww.. *pats bum*

Fixed.



Oh, wait, was that harrassment? Sorry, NA.

[Barringtonia]

I had such a good post and it got sidetracked by anal rape *sniff*

Aww.. *pats bum*

Fixed.



Oh, wait, was that harrassment? Sorry, NA.

You're a weird, sick old lady Muravyets, and although you'd be the first to admit it...

Well I never!

*mutters about women who seem to think they can contribute to men's talk*

The patting of bums between two red-blooded healthy males is nothing more than a hearty symbol of male sensibility and Christian fellowship, I cannot expect a woman to understand for they do not possess the intellectual capacity.

*snorts and combs mustache*