Feminist man-haters

[Hiddenrun]

Oh good. Now the lot of you can gather together and gleefully tell eachother how enlightened and non-sexist you are. Despite doing things like, oh, assuming that any man who disagrees with you or points out obvious biological facts does so because he wants to sleep with you.

Ignoring the irony of that must taste really, really good.

[Unreliable Narrator]

Oh good. Now the lot of you can gather together and gleefully tell eachother how enlightened and non-sexist you are. Despite doing things like, oh, assuming that any man who disagrees with you or points out obvious biological facts does so because he wants to sleep with you.

Ignoring the irony of that must taste really, really good.

Since when is disagreement considered a come-on? That didn't make a lick of sense. So many bizarre assumptions...

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Oh good. Now the lot of you can gather together and gleefully tell eachother how enlightened and non-sexist you are. Despite doing things like, oh, assuming that any man who disagrees with you or points out obvious biological facts does so because he wants to sleep with you.

Ignoring the irony of that must taste really, really good.

You make me wonder. How much were you hurt by the female sex that you need to pop on every thread that deals with it directly to assert and try and convince us of just much of a tough guy you are? How bad were you hurt, hm? There are shrinks out there, you know. They can help you deal with your inferiority complex.

[Gelgisith]

Oh good. Now the lot of you can gather together and gleefully tell eachother how enlightened and non-sexist you are. Despite doing things like, oh, assuming that any man who disagrees with you or points out obvious biological facts does so because he wants to sleep with you.

Ignoring the irony of that must taste really, really good.

What? The biological fact that men & women are differently plumbed? That doesn't mean they don't have the same capabilities, other than those directly connected with said plumbing differences.

[Galloism]

Oh good. Now the lot of you can gather together and gleefully tell eachother how enlightened and non-sexist you are. Despite doing things like, oh, assuming that any man who disagrees with you or points out obvious biological facts does so because he wants to sleep with you.

Ignoring the irony of that must taste really, really good.

You make me wonder. How much were you hurt by the female sex that you need to pop on every thread that deals with it directly to assert and try and convince us of just much of a tough guy you are? How bad were you hurt, hm? There are shrinks out there, you know. They can help you deal with your inferiority complex.

I was going to respond, but it appears you beat me to it.

I seem to have trouble concentrating when staring at Ronald Reagan.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Oh good. Now the lot of you can gather together and gleefully tell eachother how enlightened and non-sexist you are. Despite doing things like, oh, assuming that any man who disagrees with you or points out obvious biological facts does so because he wants to sleep with you.

Ignoring the irony of that must taste really, really good.

You make me wonder. How much were you hurt by the female sex that you need to pop on every thread that deals with it directly to assert and try and convince us of just much of a tough guy you are? How bad were you hurt, hm? There are shrinks out there, you know. They can help you deal with your inferiority complex.

I was going to respond, but it appears you beat me to it.

I seem to have trouble concentrating when staring at Ronald Reagan.

Glad to be of service, dearie.

*scurries away*

[Bottle]

The page I linked to is the abstract page, which even computers that do not have Wiley access can see. (I know this because my home computer accesses it all the time). The fact that other people can't access the full journals does not normally interfere with ability to view abstracts.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bpl/pwqu/2009/00000033/00000002/art00007 this one may work - it's via ingenta connect not wiley.

Much appreciated!

[Bottle]

Oh good. Now the lot of you can gather together and gleefully tell eachother how enlightened and non-sexist you are. Despite doing things like, oh, assuming that any man who disagrees with you or points out obvious biological facts does so because he wants to sleep with you.

Ignoring the irony of that must taste really, really good.

Hey look, he's back for more!

Wonder if this time I can get Hiddenrun to scurry away with his tail between his legs in under 10 posts. I'm all about besting my previous records.

[Bottle]

Since when is disagreement considered a come-on?

Well actually, around here it probably is.

"That's right baby, debate the merits of the capital gains tax at me! Oooh yeah, debate it hard. Now tell me about your thoughts on socialized medicine. Oh god, I think my paradigm is about to shift..."

[Galloism]

Since when is disagreement considered a come-on?

Well actually, around here it probably is.

"That's right baby, debate the merits of the capital gains tax at me! Oooh yeah, debate it hard. Now tell me about your thoughts on socialized medicine. Oh god, I think my paradigm is about to shift..."

[Barringtonia]

*snip*

I can't read either link, unless I pay for the Ingenta one, so I couldn't see that they've made sure those who self-identified as feminist are according to definition,

If you ask many females now whether they're feminist, they might take pains to point out that they're not the mythical definition, nor are they especially 'fighting for rights', they're simply proud to be female and they view this as slightly different to previous generations.

Thus, there's the concept that you can be a housewife and a feminist if that's what you want, it's about equality of potential, equality of choice, including the choice to make bad choices and equality to be judged by the same grounds rather than overthrowing any male hierarchy,

It may be mistaken by definition but I was under the assumption they were simply identifying as feminists rather than being selected by identifying according to parameter,

Now, of course, I'm going to re-read the OP and see that you highlighted the selection criteria,

EDIT: just to be clear, 'overthrowing' doesn't mean violent revolution, just openly challenging and changing,

[Bottle]

If you ask many females now whether they're feminist, they might take pains to point out that they're not the mythical definition, nor are they especially 'fighting for rights', they're simply proud to be female and they view this as slightly different to previous generations.

I'm sorry that you can't access the article, that's annoying.

One interesting point they make is that relatively low percentages of people self-identify as feminist. I absolutely think this is because of how many people hold incorrect perceptions of what "feminist" means. If I believed that a feminist was a person who says women are better than men, I wouldn't identify as feminist either!

Thus, there's the concept that you can be a housewife and a feminist if that's what you want, it's about equality of potential, equality of choice, including the choice to make bad choices and equality to be judged by the same grounds rather than overthrowing any male hierarchy,

It may be mistaken by definition but I was under the assumption they were simply identifying as feminists rather than being selected by identifying according to parameter,

Now, of course, I'm going to re-read the OP and see that you highlighted the selection criteria,

Haha, no, I didn't provide that information in the OP, and if the article link isn't working then obviously there's no foul in not having read it.

Also, the Wiley link that was working fine for me 20 minutes ago is now giving ME the cookie error. So double dammit on that.

[Barringtonia]

One interesting point they make is that relatively low percentages of people self-identify as feminist. I absolutely think this is because of how many people hold incorrect perceptions of what "feminist" means. If I believed that a feminist was a person who says women are better than men, I wouldn't identify as feminist either!

I think it's also partly to do with the negative connotations, or at least the presumptive reaction from people if you say you are - it's like saying 'I'm [nationality]', you're less an individual with a viewpoint and more a product of a nation, with all the assumptions that come loaded with that.

So I think many women are wary of saying they're feminist partly to avoid pointless and boring conversations stemming from incorrect perceptions. They may well agree with any statement aligned with feminism, as in 'yes, I believe that',

Unless you're saying the self-identification was tested in terms of females not agreeing with those statements, which would surprise me to some extent. I have a hard time knowing the likely percentage of women who accept equality of status themselves, especially when I see marriage contract enforcement laws* in Arkansas or wherever it was,

*i.e., there's some marriage contract you can sign about divorce and it's legally enforceable in, I think, 3 states,

EDIT: Anyway, end of day, Friday, I'm off to the bar, I think I'll use this study as a chat up line... 'Did you hear... ooh aren't I sensitive?'

Never works,

[Bottle]

I think it's also partly to do with the negative connotations, or at least the presumptive reaction from people if you say you are - it's like saying 'I'm [nationality]', you're less an individual with a viewpoint and more a product of a nation, with all the assumptions that come loaded with that.

So I think many women are wary of saying they're feminist partly to avoid pointless and boring conversations stemming from incorrect perceptions. They may well agree with any statement aligned with feminism, as in 'yes, I believe that',

I think you're absolutely right. Because I did that for years.

Yes, everyone take a moment to marvel, but for years I did not want to be identified as "feminist."

I still believed all the fundamentals that I believe now, but I didn't want to be called "feminist" because of all the baggage around that term.

Unless you're saying the self-identification was tested in terms of females not agreeing with those statements, which would surprise me to some extent. I have a hard time knowing the likely percentage of women who accept equality of status themselves, especially when I see marriage contract enforcement laws* in Arkansas or wherever it was,

*i.e., there's some marriage contract you can sign about divorce and it's legally enforceable in, I think, 3 states,

Well, if I'm understanding it correctly, what they did was start with a very broad definition of "feminism": any reference to equal rights for women, the acknowledgement of inequality between women and men, and the need for social change on behalf of women. They asked the participants to define "feminism," and then had two independent raters determine whether or not the participant gave a response that qualified. So, in their example, "Feminists are women who dislike men and want to have the same rights as men have" was an acceptable definition. However, cases where people confused "feminism" with something else (i.e. "Feminism is being ladylike") or when people simply did not show any awareness of what feminism is (i.e. "feminism is disliking men"), those responses were coded as inconsistent with the operational definition of the term. Which makes sense, because if a person thinks "feminism" means "being ladylike," then the fact that they do or don't identify as "feminist" isn't applicable to the study.

[Blouman Empire]

Well actually, around here it probably is.

"That's right baby, debate the merits of the capital gains tax at me! Oooh yeah, debate it hard. Now tell me about your thoughts on socialized medicine. Oh god, I think my paradigm is about to shift..."

So you doing anything tonight?

[Treznor]

Hello. My name is Treznor and I'm a feminist. Apparently to some this means I hate my own gender, but what it means to me is that I hate double-standards.

Thank you.

[Blouman Empire]

Hello. My name is Treznor and I'm a feminist. Apparently to some this means I hate my own gender, but what it means to me is that I hate double-standards.

Thank you.

How does that make you a feminist?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Hello. My name is Treznor and I'm a feminist. Apparently to some this means I hate my own gender, but what it means to me is that I hate double-standards.

Thank you.

Male femenists anonymous?

[Surpsainia]

Hello. My name is Treznor and I'm a feminist. Apparently to some this means I hate my own gender, but what it means to me is that I hate double-standards.

Thank you.

Traitor

[Treznor]

Hello. My name is Treznor and I'm a feminist. Apparently to some this means I hate my own gender, but what it means to me is that I hate double-standards.

Thank you.

How does that make you a feminist?

Equal rights for both genders means that men do not automatically deserve higher pay than women because they're men. Men are not inherently superior just because they're men. Men do not get to make decisions that impact women just because they're men. These are all examples of double standards. One gender gets away with something that the other can't, because of gender stereotypes.

It also works in reverse, yes. I don't advocate pay for women that is higher than men's just because they're women. Now, a woman who has been consistently snubbed in pay during her tenure at work may deserve compensation to balance out the sum she's been shorted, but that would be the extent of it.

[TheOutlands (Ancient)]

alot of feminists also hate there jobs and wish they had been house wives

[TheOutlands (Ancient)]

Hello. My name is Treznor and I'm a feminist. Apparently to some this means I hate my own gender, but what it means to me is that I hate double-standards.

Thank you.

How does that make you a feminist?

Equal rights for both genders means that men do not automatically deserve higher pay than women because they're men. Men are not inherently superior just because they're men. Men do not get to make decisions that impact women just because they're men. These are all examples of double standards. One gender gets away with something that the other can't, because of gender stereotypes.

It also works in reverse, yes. I don't advocate pay for women that is higher than men's just because they're women. Now, a woman who has been consistently snubbed in pay during her tenure at work may deserve compensation to balance out the sum she's been shorted, but that would be the extent of it.

pay sould be on quality of work and on average for some of the jobs feminists use as examples men provide a higher quality and efficiency

[Ashmoria]

i feel that the study is tainted by the self identification of feminists. most people under .... 40 today have attitudes that qualify them for the label but they dont self identify as feminists because it has been slandered as a club for ugly bitter women.

so perhaps a group that is secure enough in themselves to look past the slander and self identify as .... freedom lovers, in essence.. would have far less reason to be bitter man haters, or bitter haters of anyone.

From reading the study, I think that was actually their point, though.

The myth is that people who are "out" as feminists are man-hating bitches. The myth is that somebody who loudly and openly advocates for women's rights or feminism is a man-hating bitch. So, that's what the study addressed: whether or not self-identification as feminist actually correlates with hatred of men.

It's worth noting, also, that the study required that participants first define feminism before they were asked if they identified as feminist. I think that is a critical control, because (as they found in the study) some people describe feminism as "the movement for women's rights" and others define it as "feminism is when women think they are better than men." That's obviously going to influence whether or not a person identifies as feminist!


I also noticed a really interesting citation in the text of the study:

"Maltby and Day (2001) examined various psychological characteristics and their expected relationships
with attitudes toward men and women. The more feminine (rather than masculine and androgynous) women regarded themselves, the more likely they were to hold negative attitudes toward men."

I'm having trouble getting the PDF of that one to work, but I'm very curious about it.

oh thats a good point.

i certainly have heard more terrible things said about men by non-feminist identified women than i ever have by avowed feminists.

[Risottia]

Given that feminist is usually a term applied to women and you provided no evidence to the contrary, and that link doesn't work, that made perfect sense to say.

I consider myself a male feminist.

[Ifreann]

Stereotype about feminists turns out to be full of shit; Doctors report no surprise related heart attacks.


In related news: Levels of bra burning continue to be negligible.