Feminist man-haters

[Muravyets]

Careful, the feminazis will have your balls for this.

Yeah, however whenever I see feminazi ignorance to this degree, I must comment.

So you enjoy having your balls gotten, then?

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

snip]

Yet you cite anecdotes and the fact that women did the study as two of your main reasons why the study is wrong. You provide no scientific evidence of your own, and I don't believe you've actually pointed out any legitimate flaws in the testing methodology.

[Greater Americania]

Yet you cite anecdotes and the fact that women did the study as two of your main reasons why the study is wrong. You provide no scientific evidence of your own, and I don't believe you've actually pointed out any legitimate flaws in the testing methodology.

I cite my observations as a reason I think it's wrong. Because I've seen them in person and haven't seen any evidence that suggests it's not so on the grand scale, I beleive them. However, like you and I have said, anecdotes are not reliable in all situations so I cannot prove my observations to be correct.

However, I've cited my reasoning for thinking it's false over and over aside from my own personal observations. It's against the rules of ideological thought. The authors have a reason to be biased. It was based off of a single survey, etc, etc.

[Greater Americania]

You know this actually brings up an interesting point in our default position reasoning argument. You think we should take a default position on everything the moment we hear it and I say we should remain open-minded to the situation for logical analysis unless it's clearly ridiculous to the point where it disproves itself upon being brought up. To me, this study is simply that ridiculous.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

You know this actually brings up an interesting point in our default position reasoning argument. You think we should take a default position on everything the moment we hear it and I say we should remain open-minded to the situation for logical analysis unless it's clearly ridiculous to the point where it disproves itself upon being brought up. To me, this study is simply that ridiculous.

Having a default position of skepticism does not negate the possibility of changing one's mind later. You don't believe that there should be a burden of proof?

[Greater Americania]

You know this actually brings up an interesting point in our default position reasoning argument. You think we should take a default position on everything the moment we hear it and I say we should remain open-minded to the situation for logical analysis unless it's clearly ridiculous to the point where it disproves itself upon being brought up. To me, this study is simply that ridiculous.

Having a default position of skepticism does not negate the possibility of changing one's mind later. You don't believe that there should be a burden of proof?

I do, however I think we should remain open minded unless something is clearly ridiculous to the point of disproving itself. I instead think that such proof should be considered over logical analysis unless something clearly ridiculous like this comes up. I not only think that this study fails to provide sufficient proof but I also think that it goes against the rules of ideological thought for reasons listed previously. The notion suggests that anti-feminists, a group that came into existence over the irritation of feminist activities as well as group that operates on a large scale for the benefit of men (Fathers 4 Justice, Other Father's rights activists, Men's Rights activists, etc) actually thinks less of men than women. That in and of itself is simply ridiculous.

[Greater Americania]

Overall, the biggest problem for me is the notion that the anti-feminists lean closer towards anti-male sentiments than feminists. I can agree that there are many self-proclaimed feminists in the world that do not hate men nor share anti-male sentiments. However, I think that over history there have been quite a few that do have anti-male sentiments such as Andrea Dworkin to name an example. I also think that these feminists, especially those such as Dworkin who have been movement leaders give the Feminist movement it's man-hating reputation that it has today.

[Muravyets]

So what you're saying is that you don't buy the study results because....

...well, because you just don't.

And you expect others to do...what, precisely, with that? Aside from note your opinion and move on, I mean?

[Greater Americania]

So what you're saying is that you don't buy the study results because....

...well, because you just don't.

And you expect others to do...what, precisely, with that? Aside from note your opinion and move on, I mean?

I'm not even going to answer this question except to tell you to go reread my posts.

[Barringtonia]

Overall, the biggest problem for me is the notion that the anti-feminists lean closer towards anti-male sentiments than feminists. I can agree that there are many self-proclaimed feminists in the world that do not hate men nor share anti-male sentiments. However, I think that over history there have been quite a few that do have anti-male sentiments such as Andrea Dworkin to name an example. I also think that these feminists, especially those such as Dworkin who have been movement leaders give the Feminist movement it's man-hating reputation that it has today.

Dworkin is so 70's and, to be honest, she's the figurehead for every anti-feminist for various quotes often taken out of context.

The most aggressive feminists often have particular circumstance that lead them to hate or disdain men, often they can be ex-rape victims, ex-abuse victims or ex-prostitutes, so their view of men is naturally skewed. However, even among most groups formed around these areas, outlooks are actually quite fair in their opinions.

However, they make up a small percentage of feminists but they're always the one's anti-feminists refer to,

I tend to find that those who decry feminism the most have little actual contact with feminist-based groups.

As for those males fighting for equal justice in front of the courts in terms of children, I suspect any rational person sees their point and would happily say that it's very much part of the ingrained beliefs about the roles of either sexes. It's a law and court issue as opposed to a feminist issue.

[Gauntleted Fist]

A stereotype turns out to be false?

Oh.

My.

Flying.

Spaghetti.

Monster.

Everyone make sure to fix this startling revelation in your heads so you can tell your kids and grandkids amazing stories about it.

[Muravyets]

So what you're saying is that you don't buy the study results because....

...well, because you just don't.

And you expect others to do...what, precisely, with that? Aside from note your opinion and move on, I mean?

I'm not even going to answer this question except to tell you to go reread my posts.

I read them once before I went to dinner and again when I came back and saw responses and new posts. You acknowledge that you have no evidence but your own personal observations. You of course have no record of the events you say you observed, so we can only take your word for them. That gives us no way to judge whether you misread the situation or whether your analysis of it is biased or objective. You also acknowledge that you do not know any details of the people or circumstances involved in the study in question, yet you are applying your own personal but undocumented experiences of something entirely unrelated to the study or the people who conducted it to conclude that it is faulty.

That really only boils down to one thing: You are rejecting the study because you want to. You certainly have -- or at least have shown -- no other reason to do so.

[Greater Americania]

Dworkin is so 70's and, to be honest, she's the figurehead for every anti-feminist for various quotes often taken out of context.

The most aggressive feminists often have particular circumstance that lead them to hate or disdain men, often they can be ex-rape victims, ex-abuse victims or ex-prostitutes, so their view of men is naturally skewed. However, even among most groups formed around these areas, outlooks are actually quite fair in their opinions.

However, they make up a small percentage of feminists but they're always the one's anti-feminists refer to,

I tend to find that those who decry feminism the most have little actual contact with feminist-based groups.

As for those males fighting for equal justice in front of the courts in terms of children, I suspect any rational person sees their point and would happily say that it's very much part of the ingrained beliefs about the roles of either sexes. It's a law and court issue as opposed to a feminist issue.

I fail to see how the Dworkin quote I posted earlier about her can was taken out of context, but I'm completely open as to hearing your explanation for how it is so. Also, like I mention, alot of the feminists I've met are ex-rape victims, etc, or at least claim to be. However, I myself have had plenty of confrontations with feminist groups. Nowadays I involve myself on a broader scale of politics in general and focus on general ideology, but back two years ago I was a firm anti-feminist that focused entirely on the issue of feminism on society. I debated quite a few feminist groups on their own forum as well as wrote multiple anti-feminist articles. I even went so far as to create my own Anti-feminist myspace page to collect them all as well as articles written by others. I'm quite experienced in debating with feminists and that's why I maintain that the very notion that this study raises is too ridiculous to be taken seriously.

As for the anti-feminist groups in operation: Sentiments vary. Anti-feminists are very diverse in their beleifs and are only united by their common dislike of feminism. Some beleive in gender equality and beleive that the feminists are pro-woman instead of pro-gender equality. Others, yes can be male chauvinists and even very very rarely self-proclaimed misogynists.

[Greater Americania]

I'm not even going to answer this question except to tell you to go reread my posts.

I read them once before I went to dinner and again when I came back and saw responses and new posts. You acknowledge that you have no evidence but your own personal observations. You of course have no record of the events you say you observed, so we can only take your word for them. That gives us no way to judge whether you misread the situation or whether your analysis of it is biased or objective. You also acknowledge that you do not know any details of the people or circumstances involved in the study in question, yet you are applying your own personal but undocumented experiences of something entirely unrelated to the study or the people who conducted it to conclude that it is faulty.

That really only boils down to one thing: You are rejecting the study because you want to. You certainly have -- or at least have shown -- no other reason to do so.[/quote]

I have listed multiple reasons why the study is absurd aside from my own personal observations. See the posts I made above directed at UT.

[Muravyets]

I have listed multiple reasons why the study is absurd aside from my own personal observations. See the posts I made above directed at UT.

Right, from your own personal observations. Like I said.

[Barringtonia]

I fail to see how the Dworkin quote I posted earlier about her can was taken out of context, but I'm completely open as to hearing your explanation for how it is so.

It's a fiction book? It's the character in the book saying this?

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Greater, where exactly do you stand on the place of women in society?

[Greater Americania]

Right, from your own personal observations. Like I said.

No. Read again.

[Greater Americania]

Greater, where exactly do you stand on the place of women in society?

I think that the Feminists overexaggerate male oppression of women in modern society. I certainly don't sympathize with the feminists.

[Barringtonia]

Greater, where exactly do you stand on the place of women in society?

I think that the Feminists overexaggerate male oppression of women in modern society. I certainly don't sympathize with the feminists.

Seemingly based on your exaggerated version of what you think feminists do and say,

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Greater, where exactly do you stand on the place of women in society?

I think that the Feminists overexaggerate male oppression of women in modern society. I certainly don't sympathize with the feminists.

That's not what I asked. Do you believe in the equality of the sexes?

[Greater Americania]

That's not what I asked. Do you believe in the equality of the sexes?

No. I think that men are better at women at a lot of things.

[Muravyets]

Right, from your own personal observations. Like I said.

No. Read again.

Why? Did you include hidden information in white text at really small size between the lines?

You've said over and over again that all of this is based on your own personal observations. Undocumented observations that, as far as this forum is concerned, only you have seen. You've talked at length about why you find your own personal observations personally very persuasive, but you have shown zero connection between those observations and the study in question. After all, you have not claimed that you personally observed the people who conducted the study as they were conducting it. So there is nothing to connect those two dots.

Therefore, since you are dismissing the study on the basis of something that has nothing to do with the study, and which no one else can observe themselves to test the veracity of your claims about it, then to all intents and purposes, you give no basis at all for dismissing the study, except your own personal, private, unknowable by anyone but you, reasons.

Now, of course, you are entitled to think anything you like for any reason you like, or for no reason at all. But you are not entitled to ask other people to accept that as a reasonable argument for why we should not give credence to this study. Nor are you entitled to take up any more of my time telling you this. This is the third time for this. Any further repetitions from you to me that do not have new content will be met with a referral back to this post.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

That's not what I asked. Do you believe in the equality of the sexes?

No. I think that men are better at women at a lot of things.

Based on?

[Muravyets]

That's not what I asked. Do you believe in the equality of the sexes?

No. I think that men are better at women at a lot of things.

Aside from getting women pregnant, and getting lost while driving, what things?

(EDIT: That second thing in the above sentence is a joke. Because of who I'm dealing with here, I thought I'd better make that clear.)