Feminist man-haters

[Bottle]

A recent study from the University of Houston has found that anti-feminists show higher levels of hostility toward males than do feminists.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/jour ... 1&SRETRY=0

EDIT/UPDATE: This link is buggy. You can try using http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/b ... 2/art00007 to see the abstract.

From the Abstract:

Despite the popular belief that feminists dislike men, few studies have actually examined the empirical accuracy of this stereotype. The present study examined self-identified feminists' and nonfeminists' attitudes toward men. An ethnically diverse sample (N = 488) of college students responded to statements from the Ambivalence toward Men Inventory (AMI; Glick & Fiske, 1999). Contrary to popular beliefs, feminists reported lower levels of hostility toward men than did nonfeminists.

One of the researchers reported, "Our work finds that, indeed, non-feminists believe in traditional gender roles such as men being breadwinners and women being caregivers. At the same time, these non-feminists actually appear to resent the confines of the traditional roles they advocate, which presents a paradox for women and men in traditional heterosexual relationships."

Show of hands:

Who is surprised?

[Fraycrant]

*raises hand*

[Heinleinites]

"Our work finds that, indeed, non-feminists believe in traditional gender roles such as men being breadwinners and women being caregivers. At the same time, these non-feminists actually appear to resent the confines of the traditional roles they advocate, which presents a paradox for women and men in traditional heterosexual relationships."
Show of hands:
Who is surprised?

Not me. Women are indecisive? I could've told you that, and saved all that time and money.

[Bottle]

"Our work finds that, indeed, non-feminists believe in traditional gender roles such as men being breadwinners and women being caregivers. At the same time, these non-feminists actually appear to resent the confines of the traditional roles they advocate, which presents a paradox for women and men in traditional heterosexual relationships."
Show of hands:
Who is surprised?

Not me. Women are indecisive? I could've told you that, and saved all that time and money.

Ooooooh, so close...except you make the mistake of thinking "feminist" means "woman."

But mad props for that effort.

[Heinleinites]

Ooooooh, so close...except you make the mistake of thinking "feminist" means "woman." But mad props for that effort.

Eh, it's early. You want the A-list funny you have to catch me in the afternoon or evening. Or if I've been drinking. I'm always way funnier when I'm drunk, odd how that works, isn't it?

[Kryozerkia]

Surprised would be an understatement.

[No Names Left Damn It]

I'm not, actually.

[Ashmoria]

i feel that the study is tainted by the self identification of feminists. most people under .... 40 today have attitudes that qualify them for the label but they dont self identify as feminists because it has been slandered as a club for ugly bitter women.

so perhaps a group that is secure enough in themselves to look past the slander and self identify as .... freedom lovers, in essence.. would have far less reason to be bitter man haters, or bitter haters of anyone.

[The_pantless_hero]

"Our work finds that, indeed, non-feminists believe in traditional gender roles such as men being breadwinners and women being caregivers. At the same time, these non-feminists actually appear to resent the confines of the traditional roles they advocate, which presents a paradox for women and men in traditional heterosexual relationships."
Show of hands:
Who is surprised?

Not me. Women are indecisive? I could've told you that, and saved all that time and money.

Ooooooh, so close...except you make the mistake of thinking "feminist" means "woman."

But mad props for that effort.

Given that feminist is usually a term applied to women and you provided no evidence to the contrary, and that link doesn't work, that made perfect sense to say.

[Bottle]

i feel that the study is tainted by the self identification of feminists. most people under .... 40 today have attitudes that qualify them for the label but they dont self identify as feminists because it has been slandered as a club for ugly bitter women.

so perhaps a group that is secure enough in themselves to look past the slander and self identify as .... freedom lovers, in essence.. would have far less reason to be bitter man haters, or bitter haters of anyone.

From reading the study, I think that was actually their point, though.

The myth is that people who are "out" as feminists are man-hating bitches. The myth is that somebody who loudly and openly advocates for women's rights or feminism is a man-hating bitch. So, that's what the study addressed: whether or not self-identification as feminist actually correlates with hatred of men.

It's worth noting, also, that the study required that participants first define feminism before they were asked if they identified as feminist. I think that is a critical control, because (as they found in the study) some people describe feminism as "the movement for women's rights" and others define it as "feminism is when women think they are better than men." That's obviously going to influence whether or not a person identifies as feminist!


I also noticed a really interesting citation in the text of the study:

"Maltby and Day (2001) examined various psychological characteristics and their expected relationships
with attitudes toward men and women. The more feminine (rather than masculine and androgynous) women regarded themselves, the more likely they were to hold negative attitudes toward men."

I'm having trouble getting the PDF of that one to work, but I'm very curious about it.

[Bottle]

Given that feminist is usually a term applied to women and you provided no evidence to the contrary, and that link doesn't work, that made perfect sense to say.

Read my reply more carefully, please.

Also, the link works fine for me...is anybody else having trouble with it? It might be because my computer has access to Wiley Interscience.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

Not suprised at all.

[Heinleinites]

Also, the link works fine for me...is anybody else having trouble with it? It might be because my computer has access to Wiley Interscience.

I got an error message. Something about the cookies not working.

[The_pantless_hero]

Given that feminist is usually a term applied to women and you provided no evidence to the contrary, and that link doesn't work, that made perfect sense to say.

Read my reply more carefully, please.

Also, the link works fine for me...is anybody else having trouble with it? It might be because my computer has access to Wiley Interscience.

Ya think?

[Bottle]

Also, the link works fine for me...is anybody else having trouble with it? It might be because my computer has access to Wiley Interscience.

I got an error message. Something about the cookies not working.

Huh.

Well, the article is, Are feminists man haters? Feminists' and nonfeminists' attitudes toward men, by Anderson, Kanner, and Elsayeg. Psychology of Women Quarterly, 33(2): 216-224. I have no idea if Google can find another route to it.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

*tilts head and then shakes it*

[Barringtonia]

I think the definition of feminism has changed hugely, as well as having very disparate meanings.

It used to be reasonably specific, the idea that society is structured to be male-dominant and this must change,

Now it's almost diluted to meaning 'I'm proud to be a woman'.

So, to be proud to be a woman in no way entails a dislike of males, nor does the first to a great extent, the recognition of a fact does not mean one needs to hate the beneficiaries of that fact.

The dungaree-wearing lesbian male-hating feminist is a pretty rare subsection, just happens to be the image associated with 'feminist' by those who base their view on memes from the 70's.

[Kusatsu]

Not surprised.

feminism
(n) : a social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life; specifically, a theory or movement that argues that legal and social restrictions on females must be removed in order to bring about such equality


So anti-femenists are those who want either women to be treated better than men, or men to be treated better than women. Naturally, a woman who is part of either group is gonna be hostile towards men right? Cuz men are either "inferior" to them, or they are too intimidated by men or don't like being inferior.

[Bottle]

Given that feminist is usually a term applied to women and you provided no evidence to the contrary, and that link doesn't work, that made perfect sense to say.

Read my reply more carefully, please.

Also, the link works fine for me...is anybody else having trouble with it? It might be because my computer has access to Wiley Interscience.

Ya think?

Take a breath, dude.

The page I linked to is the abstract page, which even computers that do not have Wiley access can see. (I know this because my home computer accesses it all the time). The fact that other people can't access the full journals does not normally interfere with ability to view abstracts.

[Surpsainia]

Its just human nature. Everyone hates everything in some way. And loves it in another.

[Unreliable Narrator]

Tiny sample size, but, eh.. good?

[Kusatsu]

Its just human nature. Everyone hates everything in some way. And loves it in another.

Not really.

I'm a good example.

Actually, I'm a bad example, being insane and all, of course I think differently from you people.

Never mind then. Carry on.

[Bottle]

I think the definition of feminism has changed hugely,

Except it hasn't...

as well as having very disparate meanings.

As the study pointed out, it's not that feminism actually has different meanings, it's that people have different perceptions of what feminism is.

Compare it to, say, the theory of evolution. If asked, a great many people would define "evolution" incorrectly. But that doesn't mean there are "different definitions" of evolution. It simply means that some people are not (yet) fully informed on the subject.

It used to be reasonably specific, the idea that society is structured to be male-dominant and this must change,

Now it's almost diluted to meaning 'I'm proud to be a woman'.

I haven't seen this trend. If anything, in my lifetime I've seen feminism go from a relatively mainstream idea to something bordering on a slur. When I was younger, it was taken for granted that teaching girls to be feminist was a good thing (though teaching boys to be feminist was still sort of ignored), but now it feels like we're in a back-lash period where everyone claims that feminism is totally unnecessary and only ugly girls care about that sort of thing.

So, to be proud to be a woman in no way entails a dislike of males, nor does the first to a great extent, the recognition of a fact does not mean one needs to hate the beneficiaries of that fact.

Again, the study in question controlled for this, by establishing whether or not the respondent had a definition of "feminism" that was reasonably close to reality.

The dungaree-wearing lesbian male-hating feminist is a pretty rare subsection, just happens to be the image associated with 'feminist' by those who base their view on memes from the 70's.

1) The point of this study is sort of to help establish that it's not a "rare subset," so much as a myth.
2) That image doesn't "just happen" to be associated with feminism for no reason. In fact, I'd say it's pretty obvious why some people cling to that myth and promote it in our culture.

[Eofaerwic]

The page I linked to is the abstract page, which even computers that do not have Wiley access can see. (I know this because my home computer accesses it all the time). The fact that other people can't access the full journals does not normally interfere with ability to view abstracts.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bpl/pwqu/2009/00000033/00000002/art00007 this one may work - it's via ingenta connect not wiley.

[Gelgisith]

...except you make the mistake of thinking "feminist" means "woman."

Given that feminist is usually a term applied to women and you provided no evidence to the contrary, and that link doesn't work, that made perfect sense to say.

I am a male iRL, and i consider myself a feminist, certainly according to the defenition posted by Kusatsu earlier. I am for equal rights, whether it be gays, blacks, or women. In my opinion, the USA needs a black lesbian for president. You got one out of three, which i consider a first step...