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Wis. G.O.P Receiving Death Threats. No Call for Civility?

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Should Democratic Party Leaders call for civility in wake of Wis. death threats?

Yes.
101
59%
Maybe.
12
7%
No.
58
34%
 
Total votes : 171

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Drachmar
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Postby Drachmar » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:23 pm

Revolutopia wrote:
You-Gi-Owe wrote:You believe a general call for civility by your side on your side looks bad on your side. IMHO, it would help your side regain a higher moral ground.

Also, it seems you're not willing to conceed any peaceful action, like voting, could ensue for historical patirotic rhetoric.

I can't see why it would drive a wedge against you and your leadership if theycalled for peace, unless you value victory over peace.


Good thing that both the protesters and their leadership has repeatedly called for peace and take action thru the polls. So why are we having this discussion anymore if you have already got what you want.


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You-Gi-Owe
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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:26 pm

Revolutopia wrote:
You-Gi-Owe wrote:You believe a general call for civility by your side on your side looks bad on your side. IMHO, it would help your side regain a higher moral ground.

Also, it seems you're not willing to conceed any peaceful action, like voting, could ensue for historical patirotic rhetoric.

I can't see why it would drive a wedge against you and your leadership if theycalled for peace, unless you value victory over peace.


Good thing that both the protesters and their leadership has repeatedly called for peace and take action thru the polls. So why are we having this discussion anymore if you have already got what you want.

Honestly, Rev, can you be a little less egotisitcal and give the other people I'm responding to a chance to speak for themselves?

You and I have pretty much agreed that you think what's been done is enough and I think what's been done is pale in comparison.

But, Rev, adressing you, in spite of the heated rhetoric of last year, weren't the 2010 elections largely peaceful?
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You-Gi-Owe
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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:28 pm

Los Cabreddes wrote:
Alien Space Bats wrote:And you have ignored my obvious response: FOX News and other conservative media outlets have falsely attempted to depict the protests as borderline violent (by using false film footage, etc.). A nonspecific call for "civility" (which is what you want) would be used by these liars are proof that their false claims are, in fact, true, as well as a "proof" that the Democratic leadership was "distancing itself" from its base (this latter being essential if the Democratic base, which is currently quite energized, is to be properly demoralized into the sort of passivity we saw prior to the 2010 off-year elections).

Arrest the woman responsible for the mass e-mail death threat (which Wisconsin could do) and Democrats can unit in condemning her for going too far. isn't that simple?

So you've actually given a good reason for answering no. Well done. Now just one question, are you actually right?

Los Cabreddes, I like your post.
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Alien Space Bats
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Re: Wis. G.O.P Receiving Death Threats. No Call for Civility

Postby Alien Space Bats » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:31 pm

You-Gi-Owe wrote:Glad you can elaborate on your previously poorly chosen words.

Glad you're tacitly apologizing for your failure to appreciate simple concepts or put things in their correct context.

You-Gi-Owe wrote:You believe a general call for civility by your side on your side looks bad on your side. IMHO, it would help your side regain a higher moral ground.

"Regain" a higher moral ground? We never lost it. The protests were never violent; they have been peaceful and orderly, something your side's media outlets refuse to acknowledge.

You-Gi-Owe wrote:Also, it seems you're not willing to conceed any peaceful action, like voting, could ensue for historical patirotic rhetoric.

Oh, I understand the reasons why your side chooses to depict itself as a bunch of Minutemen ready to take on foreign tyranny perfectly well. But - unlike you - I think that one's choice of tactics matters. You seem to believe that the Right's political victory is so important that anything your side does, even if it effectively amounts to mobilizing for civil war, is acceptable - as long as it means your side gets to wear the flag and call itself Real Americans™.

IOW, you may well gain voting strength from pretending to be the Contiental Army - but that doesn't excuse the toxic effect of your use of a fundamentally militant model of political activism on the nation's body politic. You can choose whatever model you want as your inspiration; you cannot pretend that all such choices are morally equal.

But then you ought to know this: You have been lecturing the rest of us for decades on the moral consequences of our choices, haven't you? Well, now it's time to take your own medicine. Show up at political rallies bearing arms, talk about armed resistance to government if you fail to win at the polls, and expect to be called on it. Such behavior is fundamentally irresponsible, in that it drives a wedge between the citizens of this country and threatens armed conflict in the event that your side should fail to win what it wants in a coming election.

The funny thing is, YGO, I think you know this and just don't care.

You-Gi-Owe wrote:I can't see why it would drive a wedge against you and your leadership if theycalled for peace, unless you value victory over peace.

What you want is for our leadership to make statements that you can twist into disapproval of our activism. You want then to say things that you will then use to label our grass roost as "violent thugs" whose "misbehavior" is unacceptable. You are doing this in hopes that we will get pissed off at our leadership the way we did in 2009, when they let you nibble them to death with ducks over health care, or like we did back in 2003, when our leadership failed to protest the invasion of Iraq even though our grass roots knew damned well it was the wrong thing to do.

Your side's tactics are transparent, YGO, and we're not biting any more.

We know that we're not threatening Scott Walker and his supporters with anything more serious than recall. We know that we're behaving properly, exercising our First Amendment right to free assembly. We know that we're behaving the way people who are upset should behave in a democracy, and we don't need anyone to tell us we're not. We know that those few loons who go too far are doing the wrong thing, and we don't support them. Nobody needs to "apologize" for something we didn't do or tell us that we shouldn't do things we're not.

When your side leaves their guns home and starts behaving like responsible concerned citizens instead of yahoos who want to shoot anybody who doesn't agree with them, we'll start treating you like you're not a bunch of lunatics. Until then, we know who's right and who's wrong in this debate, and your side can just go soak their heads.
Last edited by Alien Space Bats on Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Revolutopia
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Postby Revolutopia » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:33 pm

You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Revolutopia wrote:
Good thing that both the protesters and their leadership has repeatedly called for peace and take action thru the polls. So why are we having this discussion anymore if you have already got what you want.

Honestly, Rev, can you be a little less egotisitcal and give the other people I'm responding to a chance to speak for themselves?

You and I have pretty much agreed that you think what's been done is enough and I think what's been done is pale in comparison.

But, Rev, adressing you, in spite of the heated rhetoric of last year, weren't the 2010 elections largely peaceful?


Well, I am sorry Alien Space Bats that I felt the need to state the obvious and take away your opportunity to display the obvious so you could have your point ignored by YGO like how he was forced to do with my wrongful post steal.

Secondly, when did I say the 2010 elections were anything but peaceful. In fact, I have even said I support the right for the Tea party to use whatever rhetoric they want. Only, that I find hypocritical to get mad when others use the same tactics.

edit: oh yeah, i already posted this in the other Wis. thread but I thought be interesting to post it here to show Wis. GOP democracy in action
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/wis-goper-scott-fitzgerald-dems-in-contempt-not-allowed-to-vote-in-committees.php
Last edited by Revolutopia on Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:21 pm

You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
Sounds like partisan ideological nonsense.

The UK manages a morally acceptable universal model... at half the per capita cost of our American shitbomb.

I don't always agree with U.K. and Canadian type health care decisions. Sorry.


I don't see how that matters.

Your failure to agree with their systems doesn't make your partisan ideological nonsense somehow more meaningful.
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Carpathosylvania
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Postby Carpathosylvania » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:31 pm

Buffett and Colbert wrote:You know, I searched for this on the internet for real sources, and all that turned up were some right-wing blogs and Fox News. One must wonder.

But if this is true, I suppose a "call for civility" wouldn't be an awful thing. But it's not as if this is widespread. Fox and the like have been doing everything they can to make these people look horrible, but have been failing every time.


GOP=George Orwell Party.

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Postby Gauthier » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:33 pm

Carpathosylvania wrote:
Buffett and Colbert wrote:You know, I searched for this on the internet for real sources, and all that turned up were some right-wing blogs and Fox News. One must wonder.

But if this is true, I suppose a "call for civility" wouldn't be an awful thing. But it's not as if this is widespread. Fox and the like have been doing everything they can to make these people look horrible, but have been failing every time.


GOP=George Orwell Party.


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New Unsociety
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Postby New Unsociety » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:37 pm

Hey,aren't the teabaggers and republicans the ones that support "2nd Amendment solutions"?

You know,2nd Amendment doesn't apply only against Obama.

And yes,Walker goes against the majority of american winsconsians(working AND middle class) and tries to make them defenceless against control by big business,trying to plunge us back to 19th century.

And now he speaks of using the Natl Guard.

http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2011/2/11/walker-says-he-will-call-in-national-guard-if-state-employees-balk-at-his-proposal

"Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker made the dramatic announcement this morning that he is prepared to call in the Wisconsin National Guard to respond if there is any unrest among state employees in the wake of his announcement that he wants to revoke nearly all of their collective bargaining rights.

Walker said he has not called the National Guard into action, but he has briefed them and other state agencies in preparation of any labor problems."

Remember Haymarket?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair

Ludlow perhaps?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

That's where those pseudo-libertarian big-police and big-army and big-business bigoted racist teabaggers are taking America.

The man threatens like a dictator,and is no different than Gadhafi or Mubarak in word,and he will have no hesitation in making those words action.As such,sic semper tyrannis.

No civility against puppets of big business like Walker.
Last edited by New Unsociety on Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:48 pm

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Revolutopia
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Postby Revolutopia » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:24 am

New Unsociety wrote:
Hey,aren't the teabaggers and republicans the ones that support "2nd Amendment solutions"?

You know,2nd Amendment doesn't apply only against Obama.

And yes,Walker goes against the majority of american winsconsians(working AND middle class) and tries to make them defenceless against control by big business,trying to plunge us back to 19th century.

And now he speaks of using the Natl Guard.

http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2011/2/11/walker-says-he-will-call-in-national-guard-if-state-employees-balk-at-his-proposal

"Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker made the dramatic announcement this morning that he is prepared to call in the Wisconsin National Guard to respond if there is any unrest among state employees in the wake of his announcement that he wants to revoke nearly all of their collective bargaining rights.

Walker said he has not called the National Guard into action, but he has briefed them and other state agencies in preparation of any labor problems."

Remember Haymarket?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair

Ludlow perhaps?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

That's where those pseudo-libertarian big-police and big-army and big-business bigoted racist teabaggers are taking America.

The man threatens like a dictator,and is no different than Gadhafi or Mubarak in word,and he will have no hesitation in making those words action.As such,sic semper tyrannis.

No civility against puppets of big business like Walker.

:roll:

Next, I have question for you YGO about double standards after which I will leave you alone. First, guessing from your anger that Obama is not denouncing these threats I take it to mean you are against standard lobbied at one individual but not another.

So why are you not demanding Republican leaders to vocally denounce the vilification of the unions by Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, and other conservative spokespeople. All which have repeatedly called union protesters "thugs" therefore making them seem like common criminals. Fox News, especially, has lied about the protesters causing 7.5 million dollars in damage, used false videos to make them seem more violent, "mistakenly" flipped polls to make it seem support was against the protesters, lied by "omission" by not covering how the unions conceded to the financial demands connected to their healthcare and pensions, and etc.

In how in 2009 and 2010 media coverage of the tea party, Republican leaders repeatedly criticized Msnbc, Cnn, and other media members for actions which they said demonized the Tea Party. Such as calling the members racist or violent. While, they argued these were just normal citizens vocalizing their concern against Obama's polices and these attempts to discredit the movement.

Thus, to be consistent should these same leaders now denounce Fox, Rush, and other conservative commentators for demonizing these poor citizens vocalizing their concern against Walker's policies.

Secondly, we have talked about this before why did Republican leaders not call on Republican figures such as Palin, Pawelty(sp?), Romeny, Bachman, Gingrich, Huckabee, and others when they vocalizing their support of Walker during the state dispute between Walker and the Unions. When after Obama vocalizing his opposition to taking away collective bargaining rights you had Boehner stand up tall and criticize the president more demonizing Walker and getting involved in a state matter?

Why are these double standards okay, but one where Obama does not call for less violent rhetoric from the unions despite state Democrats already doing that so appalling?
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:03 am

Are you comparing a threatening e-mail to a shooting spree?
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Postby Cameroi » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:04 am

he should fallow the lead of mubaric, and like kadaffi and probably that guy in north korea, he should abdicate and step down.
he is not representing the will of the people whom it is his job to. he is betraying the public trust, and thus committing malpheasance and tyranny, just as ragun and bush were guilty of.
it's overdue that america stop tollerating tyrannts who use economics and ideological fanatacism as their excuse.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:59 am

Cameroi wrote:he should fallow the lead of mubaric, and like kadaffi and probably that guy in north korea, he should abdicate and step down.
he is not representing the will of the people whom it is his job to. he is betraying the public trust, and thus committing malpheasance and tyranny, just as ragun and bush were guilty of.
it's overdue that america stop tollerating tyrannts who use economics and ideological fanatacism as their excuse.

Things Cameroi hates:

1: Freedom.
2: Grammar in the mainstream sense.
3: Stuff that's overdue and shit.
4. ????
5. Profit.
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United Australis
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Postby United Australis » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:00 am

No

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Daistallia 2104
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Postby Daistallia 2104 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:03 am

New Unsociety wrote:And now he speaks of using the Natl Guard.

http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2011/2/11/walker-says-he-will-call-in-national-guard-if-state-employees-balk-at-his-proposal

"Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker made the dramatic announcement this morning that he is prepared to call in the Wisconsin National Guard to respond if there is any unrest among state employees in the wake of his announcement that he wants to revoke nearly all of their collective bargaining rights.

Walker said he has not called the National Guard into action, but he has briefed them and other state agencies in preparation of any labor problems."


That was over a month ago, and even Walker seems to have realized it was a Very Bad Ideatm, as there's been no talk of it since (AFAIK).
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Luciratus
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Postby Luciratus » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:29 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Cameroi wrote:he should fallow the lead of mubaric, and like kadaffi and probably that guy in north korea, he should abdicate and step down.
he is not representing the will of the people whom it is his job to. he is betraying the public trust, and thus committing malpheasance and tyranny, just as ragun and bush were guilty of.
it's overdue that america stop tollerating tyrannts who use economics and ideological fanatacism as their excuse.

Things Cameroi hates:

1: Freedom.
2: Grammar in the mainstream sense.
3: Stuff that's overdue and shit.
4. ????
5. Profit.

You forgot economics and the republican system of the United States of America.
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Did you poll those fetuses on their opinion?

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Postby Farnhamia » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:32 am

Luciratus wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Things Cameroi hates:

1: Freedom.
2: Grammar in the mainstream sense.
3: Stuff that's overdue and shit.
4. ????
5. Profit.

You forgot economics and the republican system of the United States of America.

And bad pheasants.
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Luciratus
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Postby Luciratus » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:33 am

The Black Forrest wrote:Hmmmm. A civil GOP in Kansas.

http://www.domeontherange.net/2011/03/p ... -down.html

The bias is burning my eyes. Likewise, I do disagree with the congressman's position, but it isn't about race (or more truthfully skin color) at all. :palm:
Last edited by Luciratus on Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stop the killing! Free Libya!
Please, help Japan and Oceania in any manner possible. Pray or hope for their safety and health.
I am a Grammar Nazi. As such, I prefer posts that are comprehensible.
Cannot think of a name wrote:
Mosasauria wrote:War is a necessary evil. True peace is impossible.
As long as we tell ourselves the first sentence, the second one will always be true.

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Cameroi wrote:And I still say, 9 out of 10 fetuses would rather be aborted then be born unwanted.

Did you poll those fetuses on their opinion?

Ezekiel Bardoff (dictator)
Yavid Biram (chairman)
Yashua Mithridates (two terms)
Alistaire Hawthorne (current)

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Luciratus
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Postby Luciratus » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:34 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Luciratus wrote:You forgot economics and the republican system of the United States of America.

And bad pheasants.

What is a "bad pheasant"? A pheasant which is not tasty? Perhaps a pheasant that misbehaves?
Stop the killing! Free Libya!
Please, help Japan and Oceania in any manner possible. Pray or hope for their safety and health.
I am a Grammar Nazi. As such, I prefer posts that are comprehensible.
Cannot think of a name wrote:
Mosasauria wrote:War is a necessary evil. True peace is impossible.
As long as we tell ourselves the first sentence, the second one will always be true.

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Cameroi wrote:And I still say, 9 out of 10 fetuses would rather be aborted then be born unwanted.

Did you poll those fetuses on their opinion?

Ezekiel Bardoff (dictator)
Yavid Biram (chairman)
Yashua Mithridates (two terms)
Alistaire Hawthorne (current)

Factbook

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:35 am

Luciratus wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:And bad pheasants.

What is a "bad pheasant"? A pheasant which is not tasty? Perhaps a pheasant that misbehaves?

A pheasant that misbehaves in office, I think. Cameroi had it right there with "tyranny." *bats eyelashes*
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Postby XiphosLand » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:46 pm

Who needs a hug?

And another thing...

If you watch either FOX News or CNN you're kidding yourself. Neither is a reputable news entity.
Last edited by XiphosLand on Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Siorafrica
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Founded: Jun 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Siorafrica » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:15 pm

NSG Thread Wheel;give it a spin and watch the trainwreck begin. http://cheezburger.com/View/5084656640
A doubleplusgood guide to NSpeak. http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=16895
Population of NationStates. http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=138705479531836
Yes by and large NSG for the most part absolutely has nothing but utter unadulterated contempt for religion and those who dare express it openly.-Skibereen
Oi with the arguing in circles over the same tired old topic yet again, and the trolling one another on either side with 'who is a real Christian' and 'why your logic sucks'. How about we put this one to bed again. It's going nowhere. You aren't going to change anyone's minds. Stick a fork in it kids - it's done.-Dread Lady Nathanica

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