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Wis. G.O.P Receiving Death Threats. No Call for Civility?

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Should Democratic Party Leaders call for civility in wake of Wis. death threats?

Yes.
101
59%
Maybe.
12
7%
No.
58
34%
 
Total votes : 171

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:02 pm

Drachmar wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:So are there actual facts or is this news via a press release?


The email was provided to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel by Fitzgerald's spokesperson, Andrew Wellhouse.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/117738098.html

The email is under investigation by the state's Division of Criminal Investigation. Right now it looks as if it's Fitzgerald's word as only a email and text were provided without actual phone numbers or email addresses.

Welhouse on Thursday provided to the Journal Sentinel a copy of the text of one e-mail he said was sent on Wednesday night but would not provide the e-mail address or name of the sender. He said the e-mail was turned over to Capitol Police, who are investigating it.


Indeed. At what was released it looks like "press release" news. Time will tell.........
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:05 pm

You-Gi-Owe wrote:Okay, I'm waiting for the calls for civility....


Okay, I'm waiting for... a You-Gi-Owe thread that isn't ridiculously partisan.

I wonder which of us will be satisfied sooner?
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:06 pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:To the people who voted no: why do you apparently believe the Left should be no better than the Right?

Perhaps, and I don't know because I haven't voted, it's because it puts up a false equivalancy. An unnamed person who sent an e-mail is not the same as, say, a member of the House of Representatives, or a former Vice Presidential candidate, or a nationally recognized pundit and media personality with a millions strong audience who the party apologizes to if they accidentally offend him. The call for civility wasn't really about the rabble, the rabble was the symptom. There's always been an understanding that every crowd has a nut. The criticism wasn't that there were nuts, but that there were people in the leadership who were fanning the flames of the nuts that we all know are there.

The problem is when Giffords was shot it didn't really matter why he shot her, what mattered is we could trace the language of certain leaders and elected officials that encouraged that kind of behavior. There was something to clarify, because when an actual nominated candidate suggests that if elections don't go her way people should look to 'second amendment remedies.' In the light of this unconfirmed e-mailed death threat, where is the direct thread to what has been said by the party leaders that have lead to violence?

It, frankly, is not really the same. Of course someone should not resort to death threats, but to compare it to the systemic rhetoric of party leaders, representatives, and pundits is disingenuous. So maybe that's why they voted no.

Or, you could go by the posts in the thread that have stated that some people don't believe that either side should hold back and that it's perfectly constructive to yell "FACIST!" and "COMMIE!" at each other on their respective channels.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:07 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:
You-Gi-Owe wrote:Okay, I'm waiting for the calls for civility....


Okay, I'm waiting for... a You-Gi-Owe thread that isn't ridiculously partisan.

I wonder which of us will be satisfied sooner?


Should hold my breath? I can do it for a long time!

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Postby Grave_n_idle » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:08 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:Those sending the emails should be caught and punished. Those encouraging violence against political leaders should be censured or punished if the calls lead to actual violence.

^This


Seconded. Is someone supposed to be defending it?
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You-Gi-Owe
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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:10 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:To the people who voted no: why do you apparently believe the Left should be no better than the Right?

Perhaps, and I don't know because I haven't voted, it's because it puts up a false equivalancy. An unnamed person who sent an e-mail is not the same as, say, a member of the House of Representatives, or a former Vice Presidential candidate, or a nationally recognized pundit and media personality with a millions strong audience who the party apologizes to if they accidentally offend him. The call for civility wasn't really about the rabble, the rabble was the symptom. There's always been an understanding that every crowd has a nut. The criticism wasn't that there were nuts, but that there were people in the leadership who were fanning the flames of the nuts that we all know are there.

The problem is when Giffords was shot it didn't really matter why he shot her, what mattered is we could trace the language of certain leaders and elected officials that encouraged that kind of behavior. There was something to clarify, because when an actual nominated candidate suggests that if elections don't go her way people should look to 'second amendment remedies.' In the light of this unconfirmed e-mailed death threat, where is the direct thread to what has been said by the party leaders that have lead to violence?

It, frankly, is not really the same. Of course someone should not resort to death threats, but to compare it to the systemic rhetoric of party leaders, representatives, and pundits is disingenuous. So maybe that's why they voted no.

Or, you could go by the posts in the thread that have stated that some people don't believe that either side should hold back and that it's perfectly constructive to yell "FACIST!" and "COMMIE!" at each other on their respective channels.

Overall, a good post.
I disagree in that I think the timing of the shooting was simply random opportunity.
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Herskerstad
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Postby Herskerstad » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:11 pm

No, I'd argue the US is far worse. Undeniably, objectively so.


Here we go.
It has the largest prison industry both in total numbers and per capita of any nation on the planet, disproportionately targeting racial minorities therein.


Who's got the forced labor camps and real concentration camps? Sending even families of suspects there among other things. I'd rather be on death row inside a US prison than try my luck in a DPRK facility. Besides, the numbers are hilariously close. 0.75% for the US and 0.85% for North Korea. I suppose labor camps does not qualify as prison, as it would be a demotion in comparison. How does the DPRK handle illegal immigrants btw? Oh yes, the shoot first, ask later policy.

How many wars has the United States started in the past 60 years? How many has the DPRK?


Quite a few more than the DPRK. What's even more humors is that whenever they fall out of their operations is when real mass slaughter takes place. The pro peace movement lost the US their Vietnam war, and the moment they pulled out a genocide ensured. High level estimate for civilians killed? 70000. High level estimate of the genocide that ensured afterward? 2,5 million. Go non-interventionism!

How many CIA actions abroad has the US undertaken to undercut a democratic regime or support a dictator?


Quite a few, quite a few justified as well. Not to mention the DPRK has had their childish undercover actions of their own. The DMZ tunnel was pretty hilarious.

How many civilians has the US slaughtered and tortured in its imperialist ambitions?


If the US was remotely imperialist the DPRK would not exist today. If they were imperialist they would have actually taken the natural oil reserves to pay of their substantial dept. If they were imperialist they would directly annex nations and not just half-liberate them. I would not attribute imperialist levels of intelligence to the US foreign policy, as it would indicate a financial cynicism that would have seen them far out of said financial harms way. Blaming the US for being imperialist, when ones own supporting region is a hybrid of a despotic monarchy is also quite hilarious on a side note.

Any rational, thinking person who supports the policy of such a nation against one struggling for liberation against imperialism is, in a word, evil.


And your quotes of somehow slaughtering all dissidents/rebels by the multitude in which they exist is somehow benevolent? Soviet/Maoistic like approaches stand responsible for more deaths than the west could ever hope to achieve. Even Pol Pot said that communism was a failure near the end.

But, returning to topic, I'd state simply that I believe in reciprocal ethics. If one's actions lead to the death or equivalent state of an innocent party, they deserve death. Thus, while I personally don't find it in the greater good of the Revolution to act personally in this case, and thus personally do not plan to make any attempt on the lives of these GOP tyrants, if someone did, I'd say they were doing karma a favor, and they'd have my respect much like John Brown, Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Che Guevara who acted similarly in the past,


Che Guevara could not handle a mountain rebel encampment against a third world nation, much less would he be able to in any effective way stand against some of the guardians of the worlds strongest military powerhouse. Which also, by the way, make their worst day on the job look like heaven in comparison to what the Despotic Parliment of Regent Kim's Korea could ever hope to do on their best. The west enjoy a far higher standard of life, far greater benefits, actual civil rights and far greater economic prosperity. Is it all a good and fun? No, at times, success has to be moderated. Less acceptable solutions has, by error or necessity, been taken. However again, they have achieved far more than any communist leaning nation with far fewer casualties. It's just like the east west Berlin divide, were one side did obviously better than the other.

I mean, look at the map. LOOK!

Image

Medieval Luxembourg had more lights than that during the night. There are more developed areas in remote Siberia. North Korea is exploited by a few that make the oil tycoons in Texas look like freaking Robin Hood as far as distributing resources go. Their exploitation makes Bernie Madoff look like Princess Diana. They are the arch-type of the failing collectivist ideal of making the rich and poor even more poor to make the richest, being the state, even richer. China sees them as a unruly child and they are distancing themselves from them. Even as a nuclear power no one takes their multitude of threats, even that of nuclear bombing seriously. For they know, the moment they try, it will be days and hours, not weeks and months before their government is deposed. The worst thing is how much the people of North Korea has to suffer not due to the international pressure painted against their government, but by the government's inability to both provide for and serve it's people. Regardless, the eternal leader seems to have a very temporal span on earth left these days, and I doubt his son will be able to keep the generals in line for too long.
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Postby Luciratus » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:30 pm

Bottle wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Not cool.

Eh. I'm sick of all the coded language, the false courtesy, and the back-room dealing. Shit is coming to a boil anyhow, and I'd rather have it out, in the open, under the open sky for all to see.

If we were all sincerely civil and respectfully disagreed with the ideas of the opposition- and I emphasize respectfully- we wouldn't be in this predicament every time a heated issue comes up. You are not Satan, nor am I. There is no need for a violent revolution if we can talk rationally and politely about our opinions on how to improve our beautiful-horrible world. Furthermore, I will make the same comment that I did when Sarah Palin was decried for causing the Tuscon Incident- the majority of the individuals involved in these organizations are not crazy nor do the main-stream organizers want to systematically murder the opposition. If you assert anything else, it is highly partisan and nearly tantamount to conspiracy bullshit.

Also, why all the hate for Republicans these days? Half the threads that I have witnessed in the past few days have been Democratic demonizing of the opposition for no apparent reason. In all honesty, some of us do question the more extreme policies (the new blood tends to be more Conservative than Bush- who was relatively moderate compared to the New Republican Party: Gingrich, Reagan, ect.). However, I also questioned Obama and the Democrats.
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:35 pm

Luciratus wrote:
Also, why all the hate for Republicans these days? Half the threads that I have witnessed in the past few days have been Democratic demonizing of the opposition for no apparent reason.


You are assuming the people are all democrats. Many aren't. I am registered "no party" in fact.

So are you suggesting the Repubs don't deserve the animosity?

In all honesty, some of us do question the more extreme policies (the new blood tends to be more Conservative than Bush- who was relatively moderate compared to the New Republican Party: Gingrich, Reagan, ect.). However, I also questioned Obama and the Democrats.
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Postby Episarta » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:38 pm

Although I loathe the GOP and most of their policies, I believe Domocratic leaders should call for civility. Mostly so the GOP does not turn this around against them.
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Postby JuNii » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:38 pm

You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Gauthier wrote:And if death threads had been issued to the Fourteen, would that even be a YGO thread?

Of course not.

I just Googled for death threats against Wis. Democratic Party Politicians... Nothing there. :eyebrow:

try Wis Republican Party Politicians death threats.

http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/2011 ... th-threats
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Postby Republicke » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:39 pm

Luciratus wrote:
Bottle wrote:Eh. I'm sick of all the coded language, the false courtesy, and the back-room dealing. Shit is coming to a boil anyhow, and I'd rather have it out, in the open, under the open sky for all to see.

If we were all sincerely civil and respectfully disagreed with the ideas of the opposition- and I emphasize respectfully- we wouldn't be in this predicament every time a heated issue comes up. You are not Satan, nor am I. There is no need for a violent revolution if we can talk rationally and politely about our opinions on how to improve our beautiful-horrible world. Furthermore, I will make the same comment that I did when Sarah Palin was decried for causing the Tuscon Incident- the majority of the individuals involved in these organizations are not crazy nor do the main-stream organizers want to systematically murder the opposition. If you assert anything else, it is highly partisan and nearly tantamount to conspiracy bullshit.

Also, why all the hate for Republicans these days? Half the threads that I have witnessed in the past few days have been Democratic demonizing of the opposition for no apparent reason. In all honesty, some of us do question the more extreme policies (the new blood tends to be more Conservative than Bush- who was relatively moderate compared to the New Republican Party: Gingrich, Reagan, ect.). However, I also questioned Obama and the Democrats.


'Cause the Republicans who we have witnessed in the news these past few days have been pretty atrocious (ie: Wisconsin) as has been the reportage thereof. Also, there's the whole "entitlement" debacle, the budget more generally, and the Tea Party in recent memory - a backlash was inevitable. It's just a shame that it hasn't galvanized people to a greater extent.
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:40 pm

The Governor recently got a call for civilty...From David Koch!
Oh, has that joke been made already?
Oh wait...I'm on the wrong side of the argument to make that joke...
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Postby Xsyne » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:06 pm

JuNii wrote:
You-Gi-Owe wrote:I just Googled for death threats against Wis. Democratic Party Politicians... Nothing there. :eyebrow:

try Wis Republican Party Politicians death threats.

http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/2011 ... th-threats

Yes, that's what the thread is about.
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Postby Wamitoria » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:26 pm

These threats are in no way connected to the Democratic Party, just like the threats against politicians who passed the Health care bill are in no way connected to the Republican Party.
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Postby Tsa-la-gi Nation » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:36 pm

Absolulety not. Walker & his Nazis went way too far & extreme action breeds extreme action. They went for the juggular & they got their bloody victory & now they will get nothing done that will require any democrats support in their state. As a national side effect, they may have awaken what is left of the US labor movement. Government service workers are almost all AFL-CIO. This includes teachers, police, firefighters, postal workers, & so on. Imagine all those workers on a national strike. Sure it's illegal for government service workers to strike, but these people see attacks on collective bargining as an attack on their civil rights.

These people believe that right to work states are backwards throwback economic systems that go back to the days of near feudalism. What's next? Let's take away child labor laws, or overtime pay for over 40 hours of work. It doesn't matter if you agree with this point of view, as long as you understand that american workers fought & in some cases died for these rights. The Wisconsin Nazis should have known that union workers still remember this & hold these rights dear.

When Ronald Reagan died I believe that the air traffic controllers that supported him & then got fired by him, had every right to pick up a glass & toast to his death, cheering the worms to get fat on his rotting flesh. By god, every union worker in this country has the same right the day Walker dies as soon as he signs his USSRish bill into law. May his life be short & full of torment & upon his death, may the homeless use his gravesite as a latrine.

I am ashamed to see this country become a country that seeks to take away the standard of living of middle class workers. I thought we were the county that looked to the workers not doing as well & tried to figure out how to get them into the middle class, not the county that looks to the workers doing well & knock them out of middle class wages. Growing up, I was taught that's the sort of thing the USSR would do & that's why we needed to stand up to them.

Walker & his Nazis has done nothing but inspired me to make my union meetings for the 1st time in years & reminded me that rights are never given, they must be fought for. The fight maybe with words, protest, civil disobedience, arms or any combination of the listed. It's Walkers governing without any desire of concensus that is completey uncivil to say the least. More than likely the death threats are just an outlet for anger not felt of the like in years, but these Nazis will reap what they sow.
Last edited by Tsa-la-gi Nation on Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Greed and Death » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:44 pm

Ashmoria wrote:if someone is issuing death threats do you call for civility or call the cops?

normally I call a posse.
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Postby Wikkiwallana » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:50 pm

Death threats are out of line. Any physical threat against a democratically elected official is out of line when democratic solutions are still available is out of line.
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Postby Greed and Death » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:02 pm

Wikkiwallana wrote:Death threats are out of line. Any physical threat against a democratically elected official is out of line when democratic solutions are still available is out of line.

Democratic solutions are not available when the other side has won.
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Re: Wis. G.O.P Receiving Death Threats. No Call for Civility

Postby Alien Space Bats » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:05 pm

greed and death wrote:
Wikkiwallana wrote:Death threats are out of line. Any physical threat against a democratically elected official is out of line when democratic solutions are still available is out of line.

Democratic solutions are not available when the other side has won.

They've only won when they take away your right to vote them out.

<pause>

Maybe I shouldn't point that out too loudly?
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Postby Greed and Death » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:08 pm

Alien Space Bats wrote:
greed and death wrote:Democratic solutions are not available when the other side has won.

They've only won when they take away your right to vote them out.

<pause>

Maybe I shouldn't point that out too loudly?

I can not vote them out this second.
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Re: Wis. G.O.P Receiving Death Threats. No Call for Civility

Postby Alien Space Bats » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:13 pm

greed and death wrote:
Alien Space Bats wrote:They've only won when they take away your right to vote them out.

<pause>

Maybe I shouldn't point that out too loudly?

I can not vote them out this second.

Well, you can vote them out in a few months (or a year, in Walker's case).

For now.
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Postby Greed and Death » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:14 pm

Alien Space Bats wrote:
greed and death wrote:I can not vote them out this second.

Well, you can vote them out in a few months (or a year, in Walker's case).

For now.

Until that election I get to use violence.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:15 pm

Alien Space Bats wrote:
greed and death wrote:I can not vote them out this second.

Well, you can vote them out in a few months (or a year, in Walker's case).

For now.

I believe that they are going for recalls. Though I also seem to remember that the tea party folk were talking the same talk about the Democratic senators who left, and pretty much any time there's a kerfuffle someone somewhere talks about a recall, so...
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Drachmar
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Postby Drachmar » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:25 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Alien Space Bats wrote:Well, you can vote them out in a few months (or a year, in Walker's case).

For now.

I believe that they are going for recalls. Though I also seem to remember that the tea party folk were talking the same talk about the Democratic senators who left, and pretty much any time there's a kerfuffle someone somewhere talks about a recall, so...


A group from Utah was trying to organize a recall effort against the Senate Democrats. Don't know if that's gained traction or not.

But the recall effort against Senate Republicans and Scott Walker is srs business...srsly. ;)
Favorite quotes:

Grave_n_idle wrote:
United Marktoria wrote:Your unconscious mind is gold. my friend.

...which explains why people keep sticking shovels in your head.


Katganistan wrote:
North Wiedna wrote:I'm a monster in bed.

Women run screaming from you? ;)

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