Bibles in Hotel Rooms

[Ethel mermania]

I’m not entirely sure that’s their end goal…perhaps the result in some cases, but nobody’s sitting around, twirling their mustache plotting how to reinforce social dynamics and marginalize others.

It doesn't have to be intentional. The assertion that the majority is 'normal' or 'the default' in and of itself is a way to establish and make a point of dominance. It's not always intentional (though in this particular matter it is very intentional, to the point of a bunch of Christians sitting in a darkened room, twirling mustaches and cackling like Saturday Morning Cartoon Show villains), but is it really better?

The gideon's are Snidely
Whiplash? Is muttley a mormon?

[Kowani]

I’m not entirely sure that’s their end goal…perhaps the result in some cases, but nobody’s sitting around, twirling their mustache plotting how to reinforce social dynamics and marginalize others.

It doesn't have to be intentional. The assertion that the majority is 'normal' or 'the default' in and of itself is a way to establish and make a point of dominance.

Except, y’know, that’s not what they’re doing. They think the Bible gives spiritual comfort, therefore, they give out the Bible. It’s not apolitical, it’s still a transmission of values, but it’s not an attempt to establish dominance.

It's not always intentional (though in this particular matter it is very intentional, to the point of a bunch of Christians sitting in a darkened room, twirling mustaches and cackling like Saturday Morning Cartoon Show villains),

Don’t be hyperbolic mate, it doesn’t suit you.

but is it really better?

Yes?

[Mojave Confederation]

I’m not entirely sure that’s their end goal…perhaps the result in some cases, but nobody’s sitting around, twirling their mustache plotting how to reinforce social dynamics and marginalize others.

It doesn't have to be intentional. The assertion that the majority is 'normal' or 'the default' in and of itself is a way to establish and make a point of dominance. It's not always intentional (though in this particular matter it is very intentional, to the point of a bunch of Christians sitting in a darkened room, twirling mustaches and cackling like Saturday Morning Cartoon Show villains), but is it really better?

What?

If you have a business and you want to turn a profit, unless you specifically made your business cater to the niche, you cater to the majority. Bibles in hotel rooms are simply amenities that better accommodate the majority, which is the hotel main consumer. I cannot see how that make the minority feel less welcomed with it. If they don't like it, they can still use the room service without even seeing it, much less using it.

[The Blaatschapen]

Also, can I point out that hotel bibles are usually just the New Testament, so the argument about the OT is a little bit invalid?

Ugh. Sequels.

New Testament is to Old Testament what Matrix Reloaded is to The Matrix.

[Kernen]

None of which I need. If I wanted it, I'd ask.

You don't have to believe me. I'm really not interested in providing you the receipts of my travels, both because I'm lazy and because I don't want to share personal info.

Yes, When the fire alarm goes off the first thing you are going to do is call the front desk and ask where to go.

I am going to drop this threadJack, because ultimately it's pointless. Your making main kampf a moral equivalent of the bible is enough of a reason to discount your opinion on the topic

I look for the bright exit signs. Which are prominently displayed such that I need no map to find, per the fire code in...everywhere.

Those who disagree get no opinion. Righteous exposition, comrade.

Irrelevant. The analogy was designed to test the acceptability of exposing individuals to hostile ideology. Mein Kampf is a ready analogy because it is readily recognized as hostile. That Mein Kampf is arguably less unpleasant (though not to my mind) than your holy book doesn't change the core assumption: Presence of unpleasant media is itself unpleasant, and inclusion in a hotel room without it being requested is hostile, even if unintentional.

The point is that in a world inhabited by millions of people who don't hold the book to be promoting hate towards you in any way, but who are likely to take comfort from it, and where hotels seek to provide their customers with services their customers require, the assumption that it the book is there to promote hate towards you, rather than to help those who may need it for their own purposes, is a rather egocentric one.

If you need that book for comfort, why aren't you carrying it with you when you travel? If you're in need of the book, why not ask the front desk for a copy?

The idea that, merely because you and others find it comforting, it can't be viewed as spiteful and hateful is questionable. And the rejection out of hand of a proposed compromise because you think I'm overreacting is itself egocentric.

Your holy book comforts you. Great. It threatens me and my loved ones. Both in it's explicit wording and it's contemporaneous practices. That it brings you comfort gives me little.

[Kernen]

It doesn't have to be intentional. The assertion that the majority is 'normal' or 'the default' in and of itself is a way to establish and make a point of dominance. It's not always intentional (though in this particular matter it is very intentional, to the point of a bunch of Christians sitting in a darkened room, twirling mustaches and cackling like Saturday Morning Cartoon Show villains), but is it really better?

What?

If you have a business and you want to turn a profit, unless you specifically made your business cater to the niche, you cater to the majority. Bibles in hotel rooms are simply amenities that better accommodate the majority, which is the hotel main consumer. I cannot see how that make the minority feel less welcomed with it. If they don't like it, they can still use the room service without even seeing it, much less using it.

Hotel room bibles are not a market choice.

[The Blaatschapen]

It doesn't have to be intentional. The assertion that the majority is 'normal' or 'the default' in and of itself is a way to establish and make a point of dominance. It's not always intentional (though in this particular matter it is very intentional, to the point of a bunch of Christians sitting in a darkened room, twirling mustaches and cackling like Saturday Morning Cartoon Show villains), but is it really better?

What?

If you have a business and you want to turn a profit, unless you specifically made your business cater to the niche, you cater to the majority. Bibles in hotel rooms are simply amenities that better accommodate the majority, which is the hotel main consumer. I cannot see how that make the minority feel less welcomed with it. If they don't like it, they can still use the room service without even seeing it, much less using it.

Are bibles accommodating the majority? Does a majority want one? (this is different from 'meh, not bothered by it')

If so, have sources, market research, etc?

[Mojave Confederation]

What?

If you have a business and you want to turn a profit, unless you specifically made your business cater to the niche, you cater to the majority. Bibles in hotel rooms are simply amenities that better accommodate the majority, which is the hotel main consumer. I cannot see how that make the minority feel less welcomed with it. If they don't like it, they can still use the room service without even seeing it, much less using it.

Hotel room bibles are not a market choice.

and Business owner are free to do what they think will improve their profit, especially when it is not against the law and in the interest of improving their service. Complimentary goods exist you know.

[Kernen]

Hotel room bibles are not a market choice.

and Business owner are free to do what they think will improve their profit, especially when it is not against the law and in the interest of improving their service. Complimentary goods exist you know.

Nothing in this discussion was predicated on banning this practice. I have, myself, explicitly noted that this was both legal and defensible. I would know. I'm something of an expert.

I have also pointed out repeatedly that Can and Should are not the same thing.

[San Lumen]

What?

If you have a business and you want to turn a profit, unless you specifically made your business cater to the niche, you cater to the majority. Bibles in hotel rooms are simply amenities that better accommodate the majority, which is the hotel main consumer. I cannot see how that make the minority feel less welcomed with it. If they don't like it, they can still use the room service without even seeing it, much less using it.

Hotel room bibles are not a market choice.

Then don’t look at it. How is it’s mere presence in the room threatening you and your loved ones? Is it casting an evil spell or influencing your thoughts?

If you don’t look in the endtable, desk or nightstand you wouldn’t even know it’s there.

[Cekoviu]

As an atheist, I have to say it makes me feel unwelcome. Not that I am unwelcome because of my religion, but the assumption that I will appreciate a bible reminds me of other presumptions that make people unwelcome. Like the presumption of heteronormativity, or calling an unmarried woman Mrs. based on her age.

Its a little thing that suggests that people aren't considering those of different strokes. Which is not itself a problem, except that its just so easy to avoid it and they still didn't.

How does it make you feel unwelcome simply by being in a drawer? Don’t read it. Simple as that.

If I see someone wearing a Trump hat, it makes me feel unwelcome because the Trump administration advocates for erasure of people like me. Don't have to read the hat, but it still worries me as a trans person.

[The Blaatschapen]

Hotel room bibles are not a market choice.

and Business owner are free to do what they think will improve their profit, especially when it is not against the law and in the interest of improving their service. Complimentary goods exist you know.

How do I, as a customer, know beforehand which hotel has a bible in the room? Are they advertising with it?

[Kernen]

bilge

If I see someone wearing a Trump hat, it makes me feel unwelcome because the Trump administration advocates for erasure of people like me. Don't have to read the hat, but it still worries me as a trans person.[/quote]

Just because a message is perceived passively does not make it any less hostile. For the same reason that I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a KKK rally. Being near hateful messages is unpleasant.

[Mojave Confederation]

and Business owner are free to do what they think will improve their profit, especially when it is not against the law and in the interest of improving their service. Complimentary goods exist you know.

Nothing in this discussion was predicated on banning this practice. I have, myself, explicitly noted that this was both legal and defensible. I would know. I'm something of an expert.

I have also pointed out repeatedly that Can and Should are not the same thing.

True, it was never on the level on banning the practice (although some dude earlier put it on the same level as Mein Kampf) but since I was called out on having to have citation for my claim that hotel put bible to accommodate for their costumer, which is the majority, I dig google scholar on whether they should.

Ahmad Azmi M. Ariffin on his article titled A preliminary study on customer expectations of hotel hospitality: Influences of
personal and hotel factors found that the factor analysis revealed that According to Smith (1994), hospitality is an expression of welcome by local residents to tourists arriving in their community. The expression is the style or attitude in which the
task of welcoming is conducted. “warm welcoming” is the second most important dimension in expressing the hospitality of hotel services, which include presented with welcoming token or gift.

Okay, you may say, but does the welcoming token or gift really need to be a bible? Well on the same research This study also found that local tourists or guests have significantly greater expectations of hotel hospitality when compared to foreign tourist, This finding showed that cultural factors play a vital role in shaping people’s expectations of hospitality. Since according to Alar Kilp in Religion in the Construction of the Cultural 'Self' and 'Other' state that In Western societies, the role of religion as belief has lost its cultural relevancy, but religion as a cultural symbol of identity has remained functional.

Since I would assume the hotels that are debated here is US-based hotel, of which 70% of people are Christians, based on this revelation, then I would say that yes, putting bibles should be done in order to satisfy the expectation of their guests, or other religious text based on the local majority beliefs.

Lastly, according to Adi Weidenfield, Tourism and religion can also impact on tourist behavior; for instance, religion influences the choice of destination, tourist product preferences, and the offering of religion-related opportunities and facilities to tourists. Similar to other tourism subgroups religious tourism should be seen more in the context of the current competitive environment, in which the tourism and hospitality industries are constantly searching for new customer segments. In this context, the tourism industry often inhibits a competitive relationship, where tourists feel they have no other alternative than to compromise on their spiritual beliefs in favor of a tourist experience. Instead, tourism and religion should pursue a complimentary if not co-habitual relationship.

Now I'm not an expert on hospitality studies, tourism studies, or religious studies. But to me, even without this research, it generally makes sense to make your guest live easier, including their religious activity. Accommodating such activity with token amenities such as bible in the hotel room help to sell your service. Besides, it is not bothering the rest. I'm sure the existence of kiblat arrow on Muslim-dominated countries hotel does not reduce a Christian guest hotel experience. That amenities does not convert them to become a Muslim, and can safely be ignored through all the time the room is used.

[Bear Stearns]

I like that it's usually the KJV and not some papist bullshit.

[Sarderistan]

How does it make you feel unwelcome simply by being in a drawer? Don’t read it. Simple as that.

If I see someone wearing a Trump hat, it makes me feel unwelcome because the Trump administration advocates for erasure of people like me. Don't have to read the hat, but it still worries me as a trans person.

But the Bible in subject are considered amenities, and they cater to a significant portion of hotel customers, right?

If you don't want to read it, leave it be, that is that simple for me.

[Cekoviu]

If I see someone wearing a Trump hat, it makes me feel unwelcome because the Trump administration advocates for erasure of people like me. Don't have to read the hat, but it still worries me as a trans person.

But the Bible in subject are considered amenities, and they cater to a significant portion of hotel customers, right?

If you don't want to read it, leave it be, that is that simple for me.

Wearing a Trump hat would cater to a significant portion of Americans; those who support Donald Trump. That doesn't mean it can't freak me out either.

[Kernen]

Nothing in this discussion was predicated on banning this practice. I have, myself, explicitly noted that this was both legal and defensible. I would know. I'm something of an expert.

I have also pointed out repeatedly that Can and Should are not the same thing.

True, it was never on the level on banning the practice (although some dude earlier put it on the same level as Mein Kampf) but since I was called out on having to have citation for my claim that hotel put bible to accommodate for their costumer, which is the majority, I dig google scholar on whether they should.

Ahmad Azmi M. Ariffin on his article titled A preliminary study on customer expectations of hotel hospitality: Influences of
personal and hotel factors found that the factor analysis revealed that According to Smith (1994), hospitality is an expression of welcome by local residents to tourists arriving in their community. The expression is the style or attitude in which the
task of welcoming is conducted. “warm welcoming” is the second most important dimension in expressing the hospitality of hotel services, which include presented with welcoming token or gift.

Okay, you may say, but does the welcoming token or gift really need to be a bible? Well on the same research This study also found that local tourists or guests have significantly greater expectations of hotel hospitality when compared to foreign tourist, This finding showed that cultural factors play a vital role in shaping people’s expectations of hospitality. Since according to Alar Kilp in Religion in the Construction of the Cultural 'Self' and 'Other' state that In Western societies, the role of religion as belief has lost its cultural relevancy, but religion as a cultural symbol of identity has remained functional.

Since I would assume the hotels that are debated here is US-based hotel, of which 70% of people are Christians, based on this revelation, then I would say that yes, putting bibles should be done in order to satisfy the expectation of their guests, or other religious text based on the local majority beliefs.

Lastly, according to Adi Weidenfield, Tourism and religion can also impact on tourist behavior; for instance, religion influences the choice of destination, tourist product preferences, and the offering of religion-related opportunities and facilities to tourists. Similar to other tourism subgroups religious tourism should be seen more in the context of the current competitive environment, in which the tourism and hospitality industries are constantly searching for new customer segments. In this context, the tourism industry often inhibits a competitive relationship, where tourists feel they have no other alternative than to compromise on their spiritual beliefs in favor of a tourist experience. Instead, tourism and religion should pursue a complimentary if not co-habitual relationship.

Now I'm not an expert on hospitality studies, tourism studies, or religious studies. But to me, even without this research, it generally makes sense to make your guest live easier, including their religious activity. Accommodating such activity with token amenities such as bible in the hotel room help to sell your service. Besides, it is not bothering the rest. I'm sure the existence of kiblat arrow on Muslim-dominated countries hotel does not reduce a Christian guest hotel experience. That amenities does not convert them to become a Muslim, and can safely be ignored through all the time the room is used.

Your train of logic here has too many suppositions to be satisfactory.

For one, it suggests that providing an amenity like a bible cannot be exchanged for another, less offensive one.

It assumes that the bible is desired because of the population of identified christians (the number of practicing ones is greatly less) and that the bible provided is an accurate representation of their sect.

Finally, it assumes that requesting and receiving a bible on demand diminishes the value as an amenity.

None of these are proven, or even demonstrably likely.

You can argue that presence of a holy book does not diminish your experience, but that is not universally true, especially among those of us who are routinely attacked by organized religion.

And, fwiw, I do find the bible as offensive as Mein Kampf.

[Mojave Confederation]

Your train of logic here has too many suppositions to be satisfactory.

For one, it suggests that providing an amenity like a bible cannot be exchanged for another, less offensive one.

The idea of providing an amenity like a bible is to met the hospitality expectation of their guests based on the local majority beliefs, with the idea that local tourists or guests have significantly greater expectations of hotel hospitality. It wasn't to offend, let alone convert and attack, guests with a different belief. Should the local belief differ with the book provided by the hotel management, then I wouldn't argue that they should put that book on hotel room drawers.

It assumes that the bible is desired because of the population of identified christians (the number of practicing ones is greatly less) and that the bible provided is an accurate representation of their sect.

I would not argue on the existence of the ever-expanding branch of Christianity sect and the impossibility of putting suitable bible for every single one. but this does not make my point moot. Hotels should still give bible, or otherwise any other holy books, to provide an amenity for their guest.

Finally, it assumes that requesting and receiving a bible on demand diminishes the value as an amenity.

It isn't, in fact, there's nothing about this assume bible on demand is worse. But as the researchers suggest, a presentation of appreciation token from the hotel side help the hotel appear more welcoming.

None of these are proven, or even demonstrably likely.

I cite research with Questionnaire survey was employed as the main method of data collection.

You can argue that presence of a holy book does not diminish your experience, but that is not universally true, especially among those of us who are routinely attacked by organized religion.

It's better to provide more service and getting a specific customer asking for less in their visit than the hotel provide less and perceived giving less service, no? Muslim guest would refuse free breakfast during Ramadan but it is not a reason for you to scrap the entire breakfast service for that month.

And, fwiw, I do find the bible as offensive as Mein Kampf.

This is just personal problem man. I don't want to comment on this.

[Vetalia]

What's the big deal? It's not like you're being forced to read it...I mean, seriously, how many people actually use or look in the drawer of the bedside table in their hotel room? If another religion wants to put their religious text in the drawer, let them form a similar organization and do the same.

[Kowani]

What's the big deal? It's not like you're being forced to read it...I mean, seriously, how many people actually use or look in the drawer of the bedside table in their hotel room? If another religion wants to put their religious text in the drawer, let them form a similar organization and do the same.

Okay. Now imagine that, say, the God Delusion was in there.

[The Grims]

This is just personal problem man. I don't want to comment on this.

Your nation is named after a people whose culture was destroyed by christians. I find that a nice irony .

[Vetalia]

Okay. Now imagine that, say, the God Delusion was in there.

That really wouldn't bother me in the slightest, nor would the Quran, the Book of Mormon or any other religious text. I wouldn't be forced to read it.

I don't read the Gideon Bibles they place in there as is because they're incomplete to begin with...

[Kowani]

Okay. Now imagine that, say, the God Delusion was in there.

That really wouldn't bother me in the slightest, nor would the Quran, the Book of Mormon or any other religious text. I wouldn't be forced to read it.

I don't read the Gideon Bibles they place in there as is because they're incomplete to begin with...

Surprisingly, there are ideas which are contained within both the Bible and the God Delusion which some people may dislike, regardless of whether they read them or not.

[Mojave Confederation]

This is just personal problem man. I don't want to comment on this.

Your nation is named after a people whose culture was destroyed by christians. I find that a nice irony .

What?