Is communism evil? Eminent domain? Socialism?

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

Any ideology that denies self-ownership is inherently evil. So yes.

[Antihomophobia]

Any ideology that denies self-ownership is inherently evil. So yes.

So capitalism evil, right?

[Dokrib Choseon]

Admittedly I haven't read much of his writing.

I do like that he's continuing the line of the DPRK since later into Kim Il Sung Suryongnim's government of seeking peace with south Korea and the United States. As someone who genuinely wants to see a world without wars, the fact that he'd meet with Rodman and ask for Obama to call him (which the latter never did of course), that makes me rather hopeful. Continuation of the Korean War is in no one's best interests these days aside from the military industrial complex and its political puppets.

What about the prison camps? What about the bowing to statues of the Kims?

Name a nation without prisons, and you might have something of a point. The incarceration rate in the DPRK is significantly lower than that of the United States.

As to bowing to the statues, it's a cultural matter. In East Asian cultures, one often bows in greeting as a show of respect. Older people in China still observe the custom here. As the DPRK is attempting to preserve Korean culture from western cultural imperialism, this is a deliberate preservation. But as someone who's been to the DPRK in person (which if you were to be objective, you should as well before drawing firm conclusions on it), the sort of bow that's expected before the statues of Kim Il Sung Suryongnim and Kim Jong Il Changgunnim are no different from that which, say a waiter/waitress might give to a customer at their restaurant there (also very common there). It's a very polite and traditional culture, and the bowing ought to be viewed in such a context.

As well, there were no statues of Kim Jong Il Chang'gun'nim in the nation until after his passing - he in his lifetime opposed proposals to build a statue of himself; as for Kim Il Sung Suryongnim, there were no statues of him in Pyongyang until the late 80s (at the insistance of the SPA when he was becoming aged). The statues of the war martyrs (ie. common Koreans who fought and died in the revolution) were around from significantly earlier. But I doubt the counterrvolutionaries who 'escaped' would tell you that much, mm?

[Teemant]

Any ideology that denies self-ownership is inherently evil. So yes.

So capitalism evil, right?

Maybe you should point out why capitalism is evil.
How capitalism denies self-ownership?

[Teemant]

What about the prison camps? What about the bowing to statues of the Kims?

Name a nation without prisons, and you might have something of a point. The incarceration rate in the DPRK is significantly lower than that of the United States.

As to bowing to the statues, it's a cultural matter. In East Asian cultures, one often bows in greeting as a show of respect. Older people in China still observe the custom here. As the DPRK is attempting to preserve Korean culture from western cultural imperialism, this is a deliberate preservation. But as someone who's been to the DPRK in person (which if you were to be objective, you should as well before drawing firm conclusions on it), the sort of bow that's expected before the statues of Kim Il Sung Suryongnim and Kim Jong Il Changgunnim are no different from that which, say a waiter/waitress might give to a customer at their restaurant there (also very common there). It's a very polite and traditional culture, and the bowing ought to be viewed in such a context.

As well, there were no statues of Kim Jong Il Chang'gun'nim in the nation until after his passing - he in his lifetime opposed proposals to build a statue of himself; as for Kim Il Sung Suryongnim, there were no statues of him in Pyongyang until the late 80s (at the insistance of the SPA when he was becoming aged). The statues of the war martyrs (ie. common Koreans who fought and died in the revolution) were around from significantly earlier. But I doubt the counterrvolutionaries who 'escaped' would tell you that much, mm?

You are using internet to praise North Korea. Why isn't internet allowed there then? Why are you using such evil technologies that are dangering your beliefs.

And why not move to North Korea then if it is the best country in the world as you claim.

[CTALNH]

So capitalism evil, right?

Maybe you should point out why capitalism is evil.
How capitalism denies self-ownership?

It's legal to do heroin in your country?

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Any ideology that denies self-ownership is inherently evil. So yes.

Is self-ownership inherently incompatible with a stateless, moneyless and classless society? Or one where workers have the power over the means of production?

[Dokrib Choseon]

Name a nation without prisons, and you might have something of a point. The incarceration rate in the DPRK is significantly lower than that of the United States.

As to bowing to the statues, it's a cultural matter. In East Asian cultures, one often bows in greeting as a show of respect. Older people in China still observe the custom here. As the DPRK is attempting to preserve Korean culture from western cultural imperialism, this is a deliberate preservation. But as someone who's been to the DPRK in person (which if you were to be objective, you should as well before drawing firm conclusions on it), the sort of bow that's expected before the statues of Kim Il Sung Suryongnim and Kim Jong Il Changgunnim are no different from that which, say a waiter/waitress might give to a customer at their restaurant there (also very common there). It's a very polite and traditional culture, and the bowing ought to be viewed in such a context.

As well, there were no statues of Kim Jong Il Chang'gun'nim in the nation until after his passing - he in his lifetime opposed proposals to build a statue of himself; as for Kim Il Sung Suryongnim, there were no statues of him in Pyongyang until the late 80s (at the insistance of the SPA when he was becoming aged). The statues of the war martyrs (ie. common Koreans who fought and died in the revolution) were around from significantly earlier. But I doubt the counterrvolutionaries who 'escaped' would tell you that much, mm?

You are using internet to praise North Korea. Why isn't internet allowed there then? Why are you using such evil technologies that are dangering your beliefs.

And why not move to North Korea then if it is the best country in the world as you claim.

They do have internet actually - at the very least in the hotel I stayed in, Kim Il Sung University, and the Embassy District.

Beyond that, Edward Snowden demonstrated that the NSA has the capability of accessing essentially machine connected to the internet. Given that the NSA is the intelligence agency for a nation at war with the DPRK, I can certainly see why they would see it as ... untactical, at the very least ... to connect much more of their nation's infrastructure to a network that'd be essentially open for the enemy to read.

There's a pretty extensive intranet though, with free wifi all through Pyongyang. I could even use it on my (Chinese-brand) smartphone.

I'm also planning to apply to teach English at Kim Il Sung University or PUST once I've obtained my Master's Degree, so one step ahead of you. *nodnod*

That, and don't straw man me. I never said it was the "best" (what does "best" even mean in this context?) - merely that it was one of the few remaining workers' states (which certainly do not include France), and it has my support as such.

[Teemant]

Maybe you should point out why capitalism is evil.
How capitalism denies self-ownership?

It's legal to do heroin in your country?

These products are banned because people under influence can threaten others or even kill.

And lets remember that we are discussing an ideology here. I'm not a leader of the country so don't ask these questions.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Maybe you should point out why capitalism is evil.
How capitalism denies self-ownership?

It's legal to do heroin in your country?

-Not a product of capitalism, which supplies heroin for people to use.

[Teemant]

You are using internet to praise North Korea. Why isn't internet allowed there then? Why are you using such evil technologies that are dangering your beliefs.

And why not move to North Korea then if it is the best country in the world as you claim.

They do have internet actually - at the very least in the hotel I stayed in, Kim Il Sung University, and the Embassy District.

Beyond that, Edward Snowden demonstrated that the NSA has the capability of accessing essentially machine connected to the internet. Given that the NSA is the intelligence agency for a nation at war with the DPRK, I can certainly see why they would see it as ... untactical, at the very least ... to connect much more of their nation's infrastructure to a network that'd be essentially open for the enemy to read.

There's a pretty extensive intranet though, with free wifi all through Pyongyang. I could even use it on my (Chinese-brand) smartphone.

I'm also planning to apply to teach English at Kim Il Sung University or PUST once I've obtained my Master's Degree, so one step ahead of you. *nodnod*

They have internet in hotels that are meant for tourits or very important party members.
Normal person doesn't live 365 days in a hotel. They can't even go to a hotel in North Korea.

It's good that you're planning going to North Korea. Good luck to you and please stay there.

[CTALNH]

It's legal to do heroin in your country?

These products are banned because people under influence can threaten others or even kill.

And lets remember that we are discussing an ideology here. I'm not a leader of the country so don't ask these questions.

Doesn't matter if you can't do heroin and shit like that in your country then no you don't own yourself.

[Dokrib Choseon]

They do have internet actually - at the very least in the hotel I stayed in, Kim Il Sung University, and the Embassy District.

Beyond that, Edward Snowden demonstrated that the NSA has the capability of accessing essentially machine connected to the internet. Given that the NSA is the intelligence agency for a nation at war with the DPRK, I can certainly see why they would see it as ... untactical, at the very least ... to connect much more of their nation's infrastructure to a network that'd be essentially open for the enemy to read.

There's a pretty extensive intranet though, with free wifi all through Pyongyang. I could even use it on my (Chinese-brand) smartphone.

I'm also planning to apply to teach English at Kim Il Sung University or PUST once I've obtained my Master's Degree, so one step ahead of you. *nodnod*

They have internet in hotels that are meant for tourits or very important party members.
Normal person doesn't live 365 days in a hotel. They can't even go to a hotel in North Korea.

It's good that you're planning going to North Korea. Good luck to you and please stay there.

And maybe when the NSA gets the fuck out of the internet, it might be safe to expand it to the rest of their nation. Until then, I'd see the present state of things as the only safe and strategic means of going forward.

*Shrugs* I've got a girlfriend with Chinese citizenship and possibly some ins with some DPRK party members. In the long run (after renouncing US citizenship, assuming the amsuingly unfreemarket trade sanctions on the DPRK still exist at the time, for any of you NSA drones reading this, so not breaking your draconian laws), I might end up building a fairly successful career between there and China. Certainly no plans to ever come back to Babylon besides perhaps briefly visiting friends or family still stuck there. Consider me a reverse-Gusano.

[Teemant]

These products are banned because people under influence can threaten others or even kill.

And lets remember that we are discussing an ideology here. I'm not a leader of the country so don't ask these questions.

Doesn't matter if you can't do heroin and shit like that in your country then no you don't own yourself.

Where discussing ideologies here not real countries.

Question for you. Where is it in capitalism ideology said that drugs are illegal. I don't support drugs myself but please tell me where is it said.

[Teemant]

They have internet in hotels that are meant for tourits or very important party members.
Normal person doesn't live 365 days in a hotel. They can't even go to a hotel in North Korea.

It's good that you're planning going to North Korea. Good luck to you and please stay there.

And maybe when the NSA gets the fuck out of the internet, it might be safe to expand it to the rest of their nation. Until then, I'd see the present state of things as the only safe and strategic means of going forward.

*Shrugs* I've got a girlfriend with Chinese citizenship and possibly some ins with some DPRK party members. In the long run (after renouncing US citizenship, assuming the amsuingly unfreemarket trade sanctions on the DPRK still exist at the time, for any of you NSA drones reading this, so not breaking your draconian laws), I might end up building a fairly successful career between there and China. Certainly no plans to ever come back to Babylon besides perhaps briefly visiting friends or family still stuck there. Consider me a reverse-Gusano.

North Korea also keeps eye on every single citizen there. They can't even leave home without getting permission first. Regular North Korean can't even drive to Pyongyang during weekend because they are forbidden to do so. (And they are not allowed to own a car).

There is literally nothing at all to do in this country. Universities are meant for elite families and they can enjoy a life that's better what normal people there can.

[Skappola]

They have internet in hotels that are meant for tourits or very important party members.
Normal person doesn't live 365 days in a hotel. They can't even go to a hotel in North Korea.

It's good that you're planning going to North Korea. Good luck to you and please stay there.

And maybe when the NSA gets the fuck out of the internet, it might be safe to expand it to the rest of their nation. Until then, I'd see the present state of things as the only safe and strategic means of going forward.

*Shrugs* I've got a girlfriend with Chinese citizenship and possibly some ins with some DPRK party members. In the long run (after renouncing US citizenship, assuming the amsuingly unfreemarket trade sanctions on the DPRK still exist at the time, for any of you NSA drones reading this, so not breaking your draconian laws), I might end up building a fairly successful career between there and China. Certainly no plans to ever come back to Babylon besides perhaps briefly visiting friends or family still stuck there. Consider me a reverse-Gusano.

Perhaps you'll see the horrors of North Korea while there, or at the least be turned away by the constant praising of the leader as a essentially god. Sadly, it'll be too late by that point. Once you renounce your US citizenship, North Korea is able to do what they want to you without causing an international incident.

[Dokrib Choseon]

And maybe when the NSA gets the fuck out of the internet, it might be safe to expand it to the rest of their nation. Until then, I'd see the present state of things as the only safe and strategic means of going forward.

*Shrugs* I've got a girlfriend with Chinese citizenship and possibly some ins with some DPRK party members. In the long run (after renouncing US citizenship, assuming the amsuingly unfreemarket trade sanctions on the DPRK still exist at the time, for any of you NSA drones reading this, so not breaking your draconian laws), I might end up building a fairly successful career between there and China. Certainly no plans to ever come back to Babylon besides perhaps briefly visiting friends or family still stuck there. Consider me a reverse-Gusano.

North Korea also keeps eye on every single citizen there. They can't even leave home without getting permission first. Regular North Korean can't even drive to Pyongyang during weekend because they are forbidden to do so. (And they are not allowed to own a car).

There literally nothing at all to do in this country. Universities are meant for elite families and they can enjoy a life that's better what normal people there can.

You seem to know an awfully lot about a country you've never been to to be lecturing to someone who has about its material conditions.

We passed plenty of cars driving to Pyongyang when we were on the highway from there to Nampo. I guess they, like the literally thousands of people we interacted with in our time there were just paid actors?

Universities are also free of tuition there; if anything, it's the west where they're prohibitively expensive to those of working class background.

[Dokrib Choseon]

And maybe when the NSA gets the fuck out of the internet, it might be safe to expand it to the rest of their nation. Until then, I'd see the present state of things as the only safe and strategic means of going forward.

*Shrugs* I've got a girlfriend with Chinese citizenship and possibly some ins with some DPRK party members. In the long run (after renouncing US citizenship, assuming the amsuingly unfreemarket trade sanctions on the DPRK still exist at the time, for any of you NSA drones reading this, so not breaking your draconian laws), I might end up building a fairly successful career between there and China. Certainly no plans to ever come back to Babylon besides perhaps briefly visiting friends or family still stuck there. Consider me a reverse-Gusano.

Perhaps you'll see the horrors of North Korea while there, or at the least be turned away by the constant praising of the leader as a essentially god. Sadly, it'll be too late by that point. Once you renounce your US citizenship, North Korea is able to do what they want to you without causing an international incident.

I've been there. I liked it. Its ideological detractors are full of shit, and most of the pictures you see of the DPRK on CNN or BBC or whatever are from the 90s. Pyongyang has grown a lot, and is more or less comparable with a Chinese city in terms of modernity - except a hell of a lot cleaner.

No one considers the leader to be "a god". I've read most of the primary sources of Kimilsungism, and there's nothing in there to suggest anything of the sort, nor did I see anyone refer to anyone in a supernatural sense there.

I'd probably be changing to a Chinese (HK) passport (assuming the western-backed fascists don't take it - Sweden, if they do). China, unlike the US has diplomatic status with the DPRK, so if anything, I'd be much better off, in that I'd have an ambassador in the country - from their largest trading partner and military ally at that - to argue on my behalf. And I have no intention of standing against a workers' state anyhow.

[Brillnuck]

Perhaps you'll see the horrors of North Korea while there, or at the least be turned away by the constant praising of the leader as a essentially god. Sadly, it'll be too late by that point. Once you renounce your US citizenship, North Korea is able to do what they want to you without causing an international incident.

I've been there. I liked it. Its ideological detractors are full of shit, and most of the pictures you see of the DPRK on CNN or BBC or whatever are from the 90s. Pyongyang has grown a lot, and is more or less comparable with a Chinese city in terms of modernity - except a hell of a lot cleaner.

No one considers the leader to be "a god". I've read most of the primary sources of Kimilsungism, and there's nothing in there to suggest anything of the sort, nor did I see anyone refer to anyone in a supernatural sense there.

I'd probably be changing to a Chinese (HK) passport (assuming the western-backed fascists don't take it - Sweden, if they do). China, unlike the US has diplomatic status with the DPRK, so if anything, I'd be much better off, in that I'd have an ambassador in the country - from their largest trading partner and military ally at that - to argue on my behalf. And I have no intention of standing against a workers' state anyhow.

HK is Capitalist.

[Dokrib Choseon]

I've been there. I liked it. Its ideological detractors are full of shit, and most of the pictures you see of the DPRK on CNN or BBC or whatever are from the 90s. Pyongyang has grown a lot, and is more or less comparable with a Chinese city in terms of modernity - except a hell of a lot cleaner.

No one considers the leader to be "a god". I've read most of the primary sources of Kimilsungism, and there's nothing in there to suggest anything of the sort, nor did I see anyone refer to anyone in a supernatural sense there.

I'd probably be changing to a Chinese (HK) passport (assuming the western-backed fascists don't take it - Sweden, if they do). China, unlike the US has diplomatic status with the DPRK, so if anything, I'd be much better off, in that I'd have an ambassador in the country - from their largest trading partner and military ally at that - to argue on my behalf. And I have no intention of standing against a workers' state anyhow.

HK is Capitalist.

I'm well aware. And the fascists are trying to make it all the more so. Maybe if Beijing is vetting their candidates, it'll become less so? I can hope at least?

In any case, it's the only place I can go in the world where there's a (mainland) Chinese government university that has classes in English language. My Chinese still isn't that good to do a Master's Program in it.

And it'd at least be a step up from a US passport for the sort of work I'd want to get into. xP

[Antihomophobia]

So capitalism evil, right?

Maybe you should point out why capitalism is evil.
How capitalism denies self-ownership?

In capitalism, employees aren't allowed to own and decide over the goods they produce. They have no power over what they've made themselves. Instead, they are being taken away by force by the owner of the company and the employees given something, if anything at all, in exchange.

[Brillnuck]

HK is Capitalist.

I'm well aware. And the fascists are trying to make it all the more so. Maybe if Beijing is vetting their candidates, it'll become less so? I can hope at least?

In any case, it's the only place I can go in the world where there's a (mainland) Chinese government university that has classes in English language. My Chinese still isn't that good to do a Master's Program in it.

And it'd at least be a step up from a US passport for the sort of work I'd want to get into. xP

China has a lot of corrupt officials you know. And about that invasion of Tibet.

[Dokrib Choseon]

I'm well aware. And the fascists are trying to make it all the more so. Maybe if Beijing is vetting their candidates, it'll become less so? I can hope at least?

In any case, it's the only place I can go in the world where there's a (mainland) Chinese government university that has classes in English language. My Chinese still isn't that good to do a Master's Program in it.

And it'd at least be a step up from a US passport for the sort of work I'd want to get into. xP

China has a lot of corrupt officials you know. And about that invasion of Tibet.

Yeah, from Deng onward especially. And President Xi is doing a nice job of purging a lot of the corrupt officials. He has my total support in such.

And I'm not going to take sides with a feudalist society where monks actually were worshipped under the contemporary ideology, and the rest of the population served as slaves. Why the hell would you?

When the PLA liberated Tibet, they themselves had to hold back the Tibetan peasantry from utterly slaughtering the monk class in retaliation. The only people who are nostalgic for the former Tibetan state are displaced aristocrats and those in the west naive to fall for their lies.

[Brillnuck]

China has a lot of corrupt officials you know. And about that invasion of Tibet.

Yeah, from Deng onward especially. And President Xi is doing a nice job of purging a lot of the corrupt officials. He has my total support in such.

And I'm not going to take sides with a feudalist society where monks actually were considered worshipped under the contemporary ideology, and the rest of the population served as slaves. Why the hell would you?

When the PLA liberated Tibet, they themselves had to hold back the Tibetan peasantry from utterly slaughtering the monk class in retaliation. The only people who are nostalgic for the former Tibetan state are displaced aristocrats and those in the west naive to fall for their lies.

Class collaboration is better than class war. The bourgeoisie can help. All it matters is whether that person is greedy or not.

[Dokrib Choseon]

Class collaboration is better than class war. The bourgeoisie can help. All it matters is whether that person is greedy or not.

Then you're not a socialist - as a matter of definition - so I don't know why we're even having this converation.