Australian BLM Protests

[Slavakino]

Oh boy

https://twitter.com/RealMelcolmX/status ... 8504521729

[Australian rePublic]

The video was linked here was posted by the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation), Australia's public broadcasting service, which is Australia's equivalent of the USA's PBS:


So the USA's protests against police brutality and racism in the police have gone global. Australia is no exception to these protests. 2 However, since the Australia had its own recent incident of what some label as police brutality, and some have labeled as a response to a threat, these have either exacerbated Australia's protests, or were the cause of them (I'm genuinely not sure as to which)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfZFVel7Lrk&t=6s

As you can see from the video, this appeared to be a realtively peaceful interaction between police and a group of Aboriginal persons, until 3 one of the men in question yells "I'll smash you across the face bro!" to a police officer. The police officer then handcuffed the man and kneed him to the ground. 4 This either caused or exacerbated protests against police brutality in Australia and in the USA.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-05/ ... s/12324186
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ed-illegal
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... aincontent
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-amer ... 54zqo.html

However, protesting against police brutality, whilst a noble endeavour, hasn't changed the fact that there is a global pandemic happening. As such, various state governments tried to stop the protests. 5 New South Wales (NSW) premier, Gladys Berejiklian, the 6 governor of the state where the incident happened. (To my international readers, in Australia, policing falls under the jurisdiction of the state, and local governments do not have the authority to issue police forces) (I'll call her "Gladys" from now on, for the sole reason that 7 "Berejiklian" is difficult to spell). Gladys was originally tolerant of the protestors, stating that she would not be the one to take away their democratic right to protest, however, NSW police commissioner Mick Fuller, was less tolerant of the protests 8 because of Covid. The protests were eventually taken to the high court and deemed illegal for the sole reason that Covid is still a thing, as such, many of the groups who were originally intending to attend have withdrawn. However, many other people have stated that they do not care, and will attend the protests anyway. If crowds exceed the 500 person limit, then there will be fines. Victorian premier Daniel Andrews, was less tolerant of the protestors (solely because of Covid), stating, from the beginning that protestors will be fined $1600 each. The 9 Redfern department of justice, (Redfern being an area of Sydney with a large Aboriginal population, and was close to where the incident had occurred) said that 10 disportional policing against Aboriginals is quite common, not just in NSW, but all over Australia. Police departments in Australia, especially the NSW police, are worried that this recent incident will erode the public's trust in the police force, and are trying to convince the public that this is not the USA, and that these kinds of incidents are rare and that they generally have good relations with the public. Senior offices meet with elders to keep them updated.

So obviously, as this is still an emerging incident, nothing has happened to the cops yet. They may have been stood down, I'm not sure, but, because it's such a new incident, they're still investigating it.

So, what's my take on all this? Firstly, with regards to the incident,11 the arrest was definitely justified. Considering that the man screamed "I'll smash you across the face, bro", that, in my opinion constitutes a legitimate threat. However, having said that, the cops here acted in a very heavy-handed manner. The use of force, whilst justified, was definitely excessive. The police had troubles restraining the man, as such, there was no need to knee him to the ground, especially in such a heavy-handed manner. As for the legality of protests. This is a harder one. I support the public's right to protest. 12 This is especially the case as they are protesting in Australia, where the incident happened, and (unlike the UK), their actually in the jurisdiction where the (for lack of a better word) supposed brutality occurs.

13 However, having said that, people all across the state of NSW are having to sacrifice attending funerals, due to the 50 person cap on outdoor funerals, people have to limit their weddings to 20 persons, they have to limit their profits due to how many persons are permitted inside their shops and restaurants. This, by extension, limits the number of people who they can employ. People who work at events venues are no longer employed because of Covid restrictions. So whilst people are unemployed, and/or not being permitted to attend the weddings/funerals of loved ones, we have people protesting on the streets, risking spread the virus. Many of these persons are the same persons who were shunning anti-lockdown protests.

This isn't a matter of whether I agree with their cause, this is a matter of whether or not I agree with their cause is irrelevant, this is a matter of whether or not they should be allowed to protest during a pandemic. If anti-lockdown protestors were prosecuted, then so should these protestors. We can't have one set of rule for one group, then a set of rules for a different group. As for whether or not they should be allowed to protest at all, anything... ...well, that's where it becomes difficult, and I genuinely don't know how to answer that

As for whether or not I agree with the cause (ignoring Covid), well, yea, I guess, 14 if police brutality is as big a problem in Australia as people claim it is. If there's a few isolated incidents here and there, as long as police are held accountable, there's no reason to protest. However, if it is as big of an issue as everyone claims it is, then yes, as long as there's no accountability, then yes, protests are justified, but I don't know about it to make a call either way. As for those protesting against police brutality in the USA, I don't know what you expect the NSW government about it, instead of protesting in Macquarie Street (where the NSW's capitol is located), go and protest at the USA's consulate.

What's your take in all this, NSG?

Without prejudice, i'd like to briefly annotate your lengthy post.

2] The BLM protests in Australia were already organised before this particular event happened. Co-ordinated national protest take time to organise, and the cited incident only happened three days beforehand. Perth already held its own protest the day before the incident occurred.

I didn't know that.

3] He is a 16 year old boy, not an adult man.

17. Not the point either way

4] See point 4. The protests were already planned beforehand. It's likely the incident increased participation, if it had any impact at all.

Once again, didn't know that

5] It's worth providing some context in explaining she is also member of our conservative party and one of the most reactionary state leaders. In contrast Mark McGowan supported public protesting.

WA is in a different position to NSW and VIC

6] Australia has Premiers, not Governors.

Yes I know. I was speaking to an American audience

7] Nitpicking but... you seem to do an okay job spelling her name. Crtl+V isn't that difficult.

I did copy/paste it, but I prefer not to

8] See back to point 6. I'm sure there are legitimate public health concerns, however there are potentially other elements of ideological or political self-interest that also fed into this position.

But a virus doesn't care

9] According to Google there is no such organisation. Redfern is a neighbourhood, not a state / territory, so it wouldn't have a Department of Justice

Yes, I've lived in Sydney for 25 years, my entire life. I know what Redfern is. I know that it's a suburb. I go past Redfern station most times that I catch a train. Those were the ABC's words, not mine. I think they meant Legal Aid Office
[qauote]
10] I'm not sure if you're articulating your own POV of the police. Over policing in itself is a form of harassment, at the individual and collective level. Coupled with this, Aboriginal people experience systemic and individualised prejudicial treatment from outside the Police.
[/quote]
Those were the Redfern Lady's words, not mine

11] That's to be determined in a court, and it will be argued by the defence that the method of arrest was abusive. Under NSW a threat is only an offence if the victim is made to feel fear. How afraid one of three armed cops in an inner city neighbourhood would be made to feel by an upset teenage boy is questionable. Also, keep in mind, the NSW Police Commissioner has already come out and said the cop was 'having a bad day', which excused his behaviour. Apparently, Aboriginal boys aren't allowed to have bad days.

We'll awaite the results of the report to make such judgements. Also, "a threat is only an arrestable offense if there is fear" is quite silly, vague and easy to manipulate

12] To emphasises and clarify my earlier point. The protests that happened today were not about this particular incident. However this incident is indicative of the kinds of behaviour and situations that are being protested. Outside of America BLM protests aren't just about expressing solidarity with African Americans. It's also about protesting the specific local conditions that are similar to those in the US for people of colour. Australia, New Zealand, UK, Canada, France, etc all have black and minority communities that have been racially victimised at the systemic and individual levels of society.

I get it

13] I don't think this comes from a poor faith argument, however, I will point out this seems to fall into the 'what about' line of argument. Eg. 'you're protesting issue X? What about issue Y'. In this case that it's unfair / unreasonable to protest in a pandemic when others have to observe restrictions. From everything I have seen, protesters observed public hygiene the best as possible within reason. Not to mention that Australia has. one of the lowest levels of infection in the world, meaning the risks are very low in the local context. I'm not saying you don't have a point, but i do think it needs to be considered from a critical point of view.

Yes, I am arguing X vs Y, because I want bloody consistency. If X is good enough for Y, and Y is good enough for X, then fine. However, when X gets special treatment over Y, that's wrong. I don't care whether you agree or disagree with the cause- point still stands- consistancy

[Australian rePublic]

Meh, at least it's not the USA, where county police departments have friken' military tanks

I found out NSW and Victorian police have rifles in their armories too.
I don't mind it too much.
There ARE still rifles out in the public and I wouldn't ask a cop to go up against a rifle using their pistol.

Also the public events (which could include protests) could be attacked with vehicles. It wouldn't bother me too much to see cops with these kind of weapons at a protest.

The things is, here, if the police are ever put into a situation where they need to use a gun, it's rare, you'll usually see it on the news. Shooting a gun is not routine. I don't mind them having large, powerful guns, terrorism is a thing, just as long as they're not trigger happy, and shoot only when necassery

[Slavakino]

OK there it is, behind a paywall but it is there.

Seems at least one team will be armed with long guns, to protect large events. That's not what you said ...





You'd say something like this if you'd seen it with your own eyes.

I'm not going to put in the effort next time.
If you exaggerate and mislead like that again, I'm calling bullshit! and moving on.

Meh, at least it's not the USA, where county police departments have friken' military tanks

M113's aren't tanks. Only armarment they have is a .50 cal. Most likely the M113 would be used for transport

[Slavakino]

Meh, at least it's not the USA, where county police departments have friken' military tanks

I found out NSW and Victorian police have rifles in their armories too.
I don't mind it too much.
There ARE still rifles out in the public and I wouldn't ask a cop to go up against a rifle using their pistol.

Also the public events (which could include protests) could be attacked with vehicles. It wouldn't bother me too much to see cops with these kind of weapons at a protest.

Funny how most states trust people with something like a SPAS-12 w/ 5 rounds than ANY centrefire semi-auto

[Slavakino]

Why is Black Lives Matter in Australia?

The aboriginal people had some pretty harsh historic discrimination against them.

Almost feels like the apartheid exists here

[Page]

OK there it is, behind a paywall but it is there.

Seems at least one team will be armed with long guns, to protect large events. That's not what you said ...





You'd say something like this if you'd seen it with your own eyes.

I'm not going to put in the effort next time.
If you exaggerate and mislead like that again, I'm calling bullshit! and moving on.

Meh, at least it's not the USA, where county police departments have friken' military tanks

You have plenty of your own police problems though. I learned from an Australian acquaintance about the NSW police strip searching minors at music festivals, and the disparity of imprisoned aboriginal people is even worse than that of people of color in America, although I will agree that America is worse.

[Slavakino]

Meh, at least it's not the USA, where county police departments have friken' military tanks

You have plenty of your own police problems though. I learned from an Australian acquaintance about the NSW police strip searching minors at music festivals, and the disparity of imprisoned aboriginal people is even worse than that of people of color in America, although I will agree that America is worse.

NSW and VIC police are absolute totalitarians and run cities like a police state that can't stop actual criminals

[-Astoria]

The aboriginal people had some pretty harsh historic discrimination against them.

Almost feels like the apartheid exists here

...something something this; no, wait, this...

[Rojava Free State]

Almost feels like the apartheid exists here

...something something this; no, wait, this...

I remember reading about how Australia banned Maltese immigrants, known as "the black threat" and I laughed cause the Maltese are just more southern europeans.

Ngl Australia seems like a pretty racist country to me, with the cronulla riots and stolen generation and all, but then again I'm sure my home country seems pretty racist to a lot of people.

[Purpelia]

Honestly my view on this is simple. If you are partaking in a peaceful protest at a time when mass gatherings are not in fact harbingers of death and the plague that's fine. The moment either of the two are no longer valid you are an idiot and the protest needs shutting down. And anyone threatening or assaulting the police should be dealt with quickly and efficiently.

Bit of a jump there from "shutting down" the protest to what police should do. What if nobody resists arrest but there are just 5,000 of them? Should police just keep patiently arresting them until every holding cell out to Broken Hill is full?

Yes. Collect all 5k I'ds and give everyone a court date.

[Major-Tom]

I won't claim to know much about the protests within Australia, though I can see the rationale behind them. The aboriginals have gotten the short end of the stick for some time, I'd hope the protesters are channeling some of their anger towards trying to help aboriginal representation.

[Cetacea]

...something something this; no, wait, this...

I remember reading about how Australia banned Maltese immigrants, known as "the black threat" and I laughed cause the Maltese are just more southern europeans.

Ngl Australia seems like a pretty racist country to me, with the cronulla riots and stolen generation and all, but then again I'm sure my home country seems pretty racist to a lot of people.

Australia lacks Hispanics and so had to discriminate against ‘Wogs’ instead - its the same racism that even defines Southern Europeans (and Irish) as Not really White enough.

Of all the countries in the British Commonwealth Australia is the one that seems to most aspire to be Little America

[Rojava Free State]

I remember reading about how Australia banned Maltese immigrants, known as "the black threat" and I laughed cause the Maltese are just more southern europeans.

Ngl Australia seems like a pretty racist country to me, with the cronulla riots and stolen generation and all, but then again I'm sure my home country seems pretty racist to a lot of people.

Australia lacks Hispanics and so had to discriminate against ‘Wogs’ instead - its the same racism that even defines Southern Europeans (and Irish) as Not really White enough.

Of all the countries in the British Commonwealth Australia is the one that seems to most aspire to be Little America

We had racism toward southern europeans here in America, although it ended sooner than there. I heard in your country there was racism toward Greeks and Italians up till the 1970s, and even then they were kinda accepted as white.

What do you Aussies even consider white? I've heard in your country that white is basically synonymous with Anglo-Celtic.

[Australian rePublic]

Australia lacks Hispanics and so had to discriminate against ‘Wogs’ instead - its the same racism that even defines Southern Europeans (and Irish) as Not really White enough.

Of all the countries in the British Commonwealth Australia is the one that seems to most aspire to be Little America

We had racism toward southern europeans here in America, although it ended sooner than there. I heard in your country there was racism toward Greeks and Italians up till the 1970s, and even then they were kinda accepted as white.

What do you Aussies even consider white? I've heard in your country that white is basically synonymous with Anglo-Celtic.

Well being of Greek ansestry, I've been told that I'm beneficiary of white privlidge, so go figure

[Rojava Free State]

We had racism toward southern europeans here in America, although it ended sooner than there. I heard in your country there was racism toward Greeks and Italians up till the 1970s, and even then they were kinda accepted as white.

What do you Aussies even consider white? I've heard in your country that white is basically synonymous with Anglo-Celtic.

Well being of Greek ansestry, I've been told that I'm beneficiary of white privlidge, so go figure

By someone down under or by an American?

[Australian rePublic]

Well being of Greek ansestry, I've been told that I'm beneficiary of white privlidge, so go figure

By someone down under or by an American?

By someone down here in Australia

[Rojava Free State]

By someone down under or by an American?

By someone down here in Australia

That's pretty fucking dumb.

[The Two Jerseys]

By someone down under or by an American?

By someone down here in Australia

Was said person a white person whose ancestors had the "privilege" of being transported halfway around the world to a penal colony?

[Australian rePublic]

Many people are saying that if these protestors aren't required to abide by social distancing, they won't abide by social distancing either

By someone down here in Australia

Was said person a white person whose ancestors had the "privilege" of being transported halfway around the world to a penal colony?

I think he was part Aboriginal

[Slavakino]

I remember reading about how Australia banned Maltese immigrants, known as "the black threat" and I laughed cause the Maltese are just more southern europeans.

Ngl Australia seems like a pretty racist country to me, with the cronulla riots and stolen generation and all, but then again I'm sure my home country seems pretty racist to a lot of people.

Australia lacks Hispanics and so had to discriminate against ‘Wogs’ instead - its the same racism that even defines Southern Europeans (and Irish) as Not really White enough.

Of all the countries in the British Commonwealth Australia is the one that seems to most aspire to be Little America

Wog has sort of evolved from a slur into just a way of describing a certain group of people. I have yet I see anyone get offended by the term wog. Unless you live in VIC then probably you would get offended by that

[Rojava Free State]

Australia lacks Hispanics and so had to discriminate against ‘Wogs’ instead - its the same racism that even defines Southern Europeans (and Irish) as Not really White enough.

Of all the countries in the British Commonwealth Australia is the one that seems to most aspire to be Little America

Wog has sort of evolved from a slur into just a way of describing a certain group of people. I have yet I see anyone get offended by the term wog. Unless you live in VIC then probably you would get offended by that

I mean people used the term during the Cronulla riots so it's still kinda offensive.

[Significantly Sized Bricks]

Why is Black Lives Matter in Australia?

Same reason why it's the UK, to which I answer- your guess is as good as mine

Hang on, Australia's case is quite different to the UK's. In Australia ~3% of the population are indigenous ("Black") and have significantly higher rates of incarceration, infant mortality, etc. Of course, comparing these countries and using 'indigenous' isn't fair, people have widely varying definitions of 'Indigenous Briton'. I guess what I'm trying to say is that in the UK, 'Black people' emigrated to the country later than 'White' settlement. In Australia the reverse is true, though there is more recent African immigration.

[Slavakino]

Wog has sort of evolved from a slur into just a way of describing a certain group of people. I have yet I see anyone get offended by the term wog. Unless you live in VIC then probably you would get offended by that

I mean people used the term during the Cronulla riots so it's still kinda offensive.

I suppose to an extent. I rarely see anyone use it as an insult, mostly used by people to describe them from that general area of Southern Europe

[Australian rePublic]

If these protestors make us go back under lockdown, I'm gonna be pissed...