NationStates

Shirah Mataniya wrote:

Mike the Progressive wrote:
Right, and some Native Americans aren't really natives, because Kennewick man, being genetically South-Asian, was here first.

Do you see the stupidity in this logic of associating a certain racial/ethnic group with land?

So you condone the actions of the U.S. Government and you support what atrocities they have committed towards the natives?
Ultimately you support genocide?

Those natives are long dead.

No.

The lands that now make up The United States of America were all gained via treaty, purchase, or right of conquest/colonization (In a time where right of conquest WAS considered a legitimate claim: Last I checked virtually every nation has done this at some point in its history.) As such, it is legally the property of The United States of America, and should not be disposed because less then 3% of the population (by US Census 2010, including those who are only part N.A, divided among hundreds of tribes who's only similarities is they happened to be on the North American continent during the 19th and early 20th Centuries.) want to press a claim that is dead and gone, since virtually all this land is primarily occupied by non-Amerindians. I do not know what nation the OP comes from, but I'll bet my biscuits his ethnic group also kicked out and killed various ethnic groups who occupied the territory before on their quest for nationhood: its just the ways things historically played out, everywhere.

I do not nesscierly condone the actions that the US government took in that era, but I refuse to judge somebody from a different era by the standards of today: After all, at the time it was an acceptable thing to do.

The Parkus Empire wrote:Not a big fan of racial nationalism.

Because clearly wanting to gain independence from a country that has lied, manipulated, and attacked you is not a good enough reason.
Racial nationalism alone is a sufficient reason.

Torsiedellious and Sturmovosk wrote:

Vazdania wrote:Fine then, we Italians will take ALL of our Italian Reasturants back!!! and the Wine!!!

NO PIZZA FOR YOU!

And we Greeks demand our Greek Yogurt factories and Olive Gardens!

Even thought I'm pretty sure they aren't Greek.

TAKE YOUR GREEK YOGURT BACK!!! Ain't nobody got time for 'dat!

Vazdania wrote:

Genivaria wrote:Vaz stop saying things that make sense, it's highly unlike you.
On second thought I retract that seeing as how it's just being an ass, apologies.

I guess Idaho already counts as an all white state

No but seriously ceding land wholly based on ethnicity is actually antagonistic to the idea of Civic Nationalism that has kept the country together for the past 200 years, with one exception of those racist, slave-owning, traitors.

The Grey Wolf wrote:

The Parkus Empire wrote:Not a big fan of racial nationalism.

Because clearly wanting to gain independence from a country that has lied, manipulated, and attacked you is not a good enough reason.
Racial nationalism alone is a sufficient reason.

No it's really not, Racial Nationalism is how the Israel/Palestine nonsense started to begin with.

The Grey Wolf wrote:

The Parkus Empire wrote:Not a big fan of racial nationalism.

Because clearly wanting to gain independence from a country that has lied, manipulated, and attacked you is not a good enough reason.
Racial nationalism alone is a sufficient reason.

Nah. This country has lied, manipulated and attacked blacks as well, that doesn't mean blacks can have their own legal slice away from all the other races that make up the nation.

The Grey Wolf wrote:

The Parkus Empire wrote:Not a big fan of racial nationalism.

Because clearly wanting to gain independence from a country that has lied, manipulated, and attacked you is not a good enough reason.
Racial nationalism alone is a sufficient reason.

When will the US grant the Irish their land and recompense then?
We demand a free Irish state in the US because...why the fuck not, we're here aren't we?

Shirah Mataniya wrote:

Mike the Progressive wrote:
Wow, that's exactly what I said.

No, what I support is understanding that land and race having nothing to do with each other, and that by displacing tens of millions to create some "fantasy island," you would be harming even more innocent people.

We treated the natives like shit. When we took their land, when we gave them land and when we took that too. But again, you'd be causing more harm to more innocents by doing what you are proposing.

I'll admit I may have misunderstood your point and I respect your opinion.
But I still personally believe the Natives should be free to express their ways of life without the interference of western culture if they so wish. And I'll have you know, an independent Cherokee nation was the dream of an inspirational chief named Wilma Mankiller.

I agree. Natives should be able to express their own culture the way they wish. And I think the answer to the big question over federal-native relations is by treating each and every Indian tribe as an independent country, but still providing them aid. But offering greater autonomy in how that aid is used. And I'm not trying to be some racist prick here, because if this was 80 or even 100 years ago, I'd be on your side. But today, the Americans who live where this hypothetical country would be did nothing wrong against your people. To displace them would be to stack one injustice on top of another.

Vazdania wrote:

The Grey Wolf wrote:Yes, if they so wish.

Oh so you'll give whites and blacks their own independent state?

Yes, if they want.

The Grey Wolf wrote:

Vazdania wrote:Oh so you'll give whites and blacks their own independent state?

Yes, if they want.

Yes let's just start tearing apart the whole country then.

Genivaria wrote:

The Grey Wolf wrote:
Yes, if they want.

Yes let's just start tearing apart the whole country then.

He's like the Oprah of land.

"You get a state and you get a state and you get a state! You're all getting a state!"

The Grey Wolf wrote:

Vazdania wrote:Oh so you'll give whites and blacks their own independent state?

Yes, if they want.

The Jews will just come in and take over both, one way or another

Mike the Progressive wrote:

Shirah Mataniya wrote:
I'll admit I may have misunderstood your point and I respect your opinion.
But I still personally believe the Natives should be free to express their ways of life without the interference of western culture if they so wish. And I'll have you know, an independent Cherokee nation was the dream of an inspirational chief named Wilma Mankiller.

I agree. Natives should be able to express their own culture the way they wish. And I think the answer to the big question over federal-native relations is by treating each and every Indian tribe as an independent country, but still providing them aid. But offering greater autonomy in how that aid is used. And I'm not trying to be some racist prick here, because if this was 80 or even 100 years ago, I'd be on your side. But today, the Americans who live where this hypothetical country would be did nothing wrong against your people. To displace them would be to stack one injustice on top of another.

Which is where I draw the parallel to the Israel/Palestien situation.

Occupied Deutschland wrote:

The Grey Wolf wrote:
Because clearly wanting to gain independence from a country that has lied, manipulated, and attacked you is not a good enough reason.
Racial nationalism alone is a sufficient reason.

When will the US grant the Irish their land and recompense then?
We demand a free Irish state in the US because...why the fuck not, we're here aren't we?

I'm Irish and I agree.

Mike the Progressive wrote:

Genivaria wrote:Yes let's just start tearing apart the whole country then.

He's like the Oprah of land.

"You get a state and you get a state and you get a state! You're all getting a state!"

I want a state! The Parkus Empire! With blackjack and hookers!

Shirah Mataniya wrote:

Occupied Deutschland wrote:When will the US grant the Irish their land and recompense then?
We demand a free Irish state in the US because...why the fuck not, we're here aren't we?

I'm Irish and I agree.

If I'm half Irish does that me I can travel freely between the Irish state and the Italian state?

Genivaria wrote:

The Grey Wolf wrote:
Yes, if they want.

Yes let's just start tearing apart the whole country then.

Well originally before the greedy colonists arrived the land we now call the United States was very divided anyway.
The United States is in dire need of being divided up, it's an ungodly sized nation.

Occupied Deutschland wrote:We Irish are a simple people. We demand only Boston and every beer-brewing facility and bar in the Continental United States.

I'll drink to that.

The Parkus Empire wrote:

Mike the Progressive wrote:
He's like the Oprah of land.

"You get a state and you get a state and you get a state! You're all getting a state!"

I want a state! The Parkus Empire! With blackjack and hookers!

...
Nevada?

I mean, most of it's already owned by the feds, it probably wouldn't be hard to give you the rest of it.

Shirah Mataniya wrote:

Genivaria wrote:Yes let's just start tearing apart the whole country then.

Well originally before the greedy colonists arrived the land we now call the United States was very divided anyway.
The United States is in dire need of being divided up, it's an ungodly sized nation.

And you base this on.....?

Occupied Deutschland wrote:

The Parkus Empire wrote:I want a state! The Parkus Empire! With blackjack and hookers!

...
Nevada?

I mean, most of it's already owned by the feds, it probably wouldn't be hard to give you the rest of it.

Yes, yes. If I can make my own laws.

Genivaria wrote:

Shirah Mataniya wrote:Well originally before the greedy colonists arrived the land we now call the United States was very divided anyway.
The United States is in dire need of being divided up, it's an ungodly sized nation.

And you base this on.....?

They base it on Europe.

The Parkus Empire wrote:

The Grey Wolf wrote:
Yes, if they want.

The Jews will just come in and take over both, one way or another

Let's see how long they want to stay when I have successfully cloned Hitler.

Genivaria wrote:

Shirah Mataniya wrote:Well originally before the greedy colonists arrived the land we now call the United States was very divided anyway.
The United States is in dire need of being divided up, it's an ungodly sized nation.

And you base this on.....?

I'm not entirely serious, but the United States is very large compared to Europe.