UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

It has been triggered but, to my understanding, it has not yet been put into effect.

And that doesn't count as trying to follow it?

Allow me to clarify. It does count as trying to leave the EU, but it does not count as having left the EU.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

And that doesn't count as trying to follow it?

Allow me to clarify. It does count as trying to leave the EU, but it does not count as having left the EU.

But they haven't ignored it. They've tried to follow that advice and found it to be a clusterfuck.

They haven't tried to follow it yet.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Yes, but the UK is still part of the EU. They won't have meaningfully tried until the UK is no longer part of the EU.

Trying to leave the EU doesn't count as trying to leave the EU until you're out of the EU? That makes no sense.

I'm sorry, I could have articulated what I'm saying better. The UK has tried to leave the EU, but it has not left the EU.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Allow me to clarify. It does count as trying to leave the EU, but it does not count as having left the EU.

They haven't tried to follow it yet.

I recant my statement.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

Trying to leave the EU doesn't count as trying to leave the EU until you're out of the EU? That makes no sense.

I'm sorry, I could have articulated what I'm saying better. The UK has tried to leave the EU, but it has not left the EU.

Great, now that we're past that can we please address the topic of why holding a second referendum is undemocratic?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I'm sorry, I could have articulated what I'm saying better. The UK has tried to leave the EU, but it has not left the EU.

Great, now that we're past that can we please address the topic of why holding a second referendum is undemocratic?

I don't recall making that argument. A second referendum would not be the end of the world in my opinion. I do however think that a second referendum would be better left until after the UK has left the EU. The reason being that once a vote has been cast, it ought to be acted upon. To call a second vote just gives the impression that leavers need to win two referendums to leave and remainers only need to win one referendum to remain, and that is somewhat undemocratic.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

Great, now that we're past that can we please address the topic of why holding a second referendum is undemocratic?

I don't recall making that argument. A second referendum would not be the end of the world in my opinion. I do however think that a second referendum would be better left until after the UK has left the EU. The reason being that once a vote has been cast, it ought to be acted upon. To call a second vote just gives the impression that leavers need to win two referendums to leave and remainers only need to win one referendum to remain, and that is somewhat undemocratic.

The issue here is that Brexit has proven to be wildly unpopular once people started figuring out what it actually meant, and therefore it isn't unreasonable to confirm that public opinion is still in favor of it before you pass the point of no return.
EDIT: I feel like I should clarify that I was conflating your POV with Trumptonium's since (at the time) there wasn't anything to indicate that it was different. I retract my statement from before.

[Vassenor]

Great, now that we're past that can we please address the topic of why holding a second referendum is undemocratic?

I don't recall making that argument. A second referendum would not be the end of the world in my opinion. I do however think that a second referendum would be better left until after the UK has left the EU. The reason being that once a vote has been cast, it ought to be acted upon. To call a second vote just gives the impression that leavers need to win two referendums to leave and remainers only need to win one referendum to remain, and that is somewhat undemocratic.

Someone should've told Nigel "this matter will only be settled with a two-thirds majority unless I win" Farage that.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I don't recall making that argument. A second referendum would not be the end of the world in my opinion. I do however think that a second referendum would be better left until after the UK has left the EU. The reason being that once a vote has been cast, it ought to be acted upon. To call a second vote just gives the impression that leavers need to win two referendums to leave and remainers only need to win one referendum to remain, and that is somewhat undemocratic.

The issue here is that Brexit has proven to be wildly unpopular once people started figuring out what it actually meant, and therefore it isn't unreasonable to confirm that public opinion is still in favor of it before you pass the point of no return.
EDIT: I feel like I should clarify that I was conflating your POV with Trumptonium's since (at the time) there wasn't anything to indicate that it was different. I retract my statement from before.

Given that the newly formed Brexit Party is polling really well, I don't know if that's true.

[Ifreann]

Trying to leave the EU doesn't count as trying to leave the EU until you're out of the EU? That makes no sense.

I'm sorry, I could have articulated what I'm saying better. The UK has tried to leave the EU, but it has not left the EU.

Yes, exactly, they've been trying to leave the EU but it's been a clusterfuck. So if they decided now that this isn't working out and called the whole thing off, it wouldn't be "ignoring the referendum".

---

Great, now that we're past that can we please address the topic of why holding a second referendum is undemocratic?

I don't recall making that argument. A second referendum would not be the end of the world in my opinion. I do however think that a second referendum would be better left until after the UK has left the EU. The reason being that once a vote has been cast, it ought to be acted upon. To call a second vote just gives the impression that leavers need to win two referendums to leave and remainers only need to win one referendum to remain, and that is somewhat undemocratic.

But once the UK has left the EU, it won't be able to just vote to rejoin. They'd have to apply for membership, and adopt the Euro, and lose all the opt-outs they have now.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

The issue here is that Brexit has proven to be wildly unpopular once people started figuring out what it actually meant, and therefore it isn't unreasonable to confirm that public opinion is still in favor of it before you pass the point of no return.
EDIT: I feel like I should clarify that I was conflating your POV with Trumptonium's since (at the time) there wasn't anything to indicate that it was different. I retract my statement from before.

Given that the newly formed Brexit Party is polling really well, I don't know if that's true.

Neither do I, really. All I know is that the idea that public opinion might have shifted isn't entirely unreasonable.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

But once the UK has left the EU, it won't be able to just vote to rejoin. They'd have to apply for membership, and adopt the Euro, and lose all the opt-outs they have now.

That is a good point. And a good argument for a second referendum before the UK leaves the EU.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Y'know in Sweden before we pass a constitutional change, we get through a first referendum, have a general election and then host a second confirming referendum. <.< >.>

[The Huskar Social Union]

Y'know in Sweden before we pass a constitutional change, we get through a first referendum, have a general election and then host a second confirming referendum. <.< >.>

Ireland just has referendums.

You swedes are just insane and take shit too far lol

[Nakena]

Y'know in Sweden before we pass a constitutional change, we get through a first referendum, have a general election and then host a second confirming referendum. <.< >.>

Didn before 1975 the King have like, still somewhat absolutist powers in case of doubt?

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

We should just stop having fucking referendums. Bollocks to Brexit, the whole process has been an expensive exercise in stupidity.

[Ifreann]

We should just stop having fucking referendums. Bollocks to Brexit, the whole process has been an expensive exercise in stupidity.

Restart Britain and try again.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Newly elected DUP Councillor revealed to be complete utter cunt and surprises no one

Now he has said he made most of these comments when he was just 16, and he regrets them.

Given the track record with the DUP and being cunts im gona press x to doubt

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

We should just stop having fucking referendums. Bollocks to Brexit, the whole process has been an expensive exercise in stupidity.

Restart Britain and try again.

Step 1: Grant Scotland and Northern Ireland independence
Step 2: Get invaded by Norway and France at the same time to reenact 1066 in 2019
Step 3: ???
Step 4: TOTAL RESTORATION OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE

[The New California Republic]

We should just stop having fucking referendums. Bollocks to Brexit, the whole process has been an expensive exercise in stupidity.

I've said it before on here and I'll say it again: I had discussions with some Leave people before the referendum, and I told them that in the event of a Leave vote that the politicians will make a complete fuckup of the entire thing, guaranteed. I got laughed at.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

We should just stop having fucking referendums. Bollocks to Brexit, the whole process has been an expensive exercise in stupidity.

If anything there should be more referendums. Direct democracy ftw.

[Nakena]

We should just stop having fucking referendums. Bollocks to Brexit, the whole process has been an expensive exercise in stupidity.

If anything there should be more referendums. Direct democracy ftw.

You should know that the 2016 Brexit referendum will probably ad infintium be used as argument why the plebs shouldn be able to vote anymore in referendum.

Specifically that this argument is currently mostly being coming from the liberals on the continent.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

We should just stop having fucking referendums. Bollocks to Brexit, the whole process has been an expensive exercise in stupidity.

If anything there should be more referendums. Direct democracy ftw.

As long as you can ensure election integrity and you take steps to combat populism, I have no problem with a system where the legislative body exists solely to draft legislation and the general public has a referendum (specifically, one where everyone that the law will directly affect gets to vote). Modern computers make such an idea technologically feasible, at least, and it does seem to be the best way to ensure that every decision has popular support.

[Dumb Ideologies]

We should just stop having fucking referendums. Bollocks to Brexit, the whole process has been an expensive exercise in stupidity.

If anything there should be more referendums. Direct democracy ftw.

>current year
>saying this in the UK Politics Thread

Hope you're wearing power armour right now, gonna be a lot of fallout.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

If anything there should be more referendums. Direct democracy ftw.

>current year
>saying this in the UK Politics Thread

Hope you're wearing power armour right now, gonna be a lot of fallout.

So far, there seem to be more people agreeing than disagreeing.