Is safety or freedom better?

[BoblyJoe]

One could argue safety is true freedom since you are not burdened by worry from uncertainty.

Yet, that Safety can be used to take freedoms away. As the PATRIOT Act did in the early 2000s and how they are trying to do with the RESTRICT Act that is in Committee right now in the US Congress.

That is true. I’m think along the lines of freedom from a philosophical perspective. If we’re being literal, true freedom and safety are incompatible. Where I currently am right now I’d prefer more freedom.

[Elwher]

Yet, that Safety can be used to take freedoms away. As the PATRIOT Act did in the early 2000s and how they are trying to do with the RESTRICT Act that is in Committee right now in the US Congress.

That is true. I’m think along the lines of freedom from a philosophical perspective. If we’re being literal, true freedom and safety are incompatible. Where I currently am right now I’d prefer more freedom.

It is not a switch but a rheostat. As one moves the slider up or down, the amount of safety increases as the amount of freedom decreases, and vice versa. I prefer more freedom and less safety, others prefer the opposite.

[Techocracy101010]

Because the state is untrustworthy, and has been shown to not be good at keeping sensitive data secure.

That's why we need a stronger government. So we can crack down on people who try to break into the system and deal with them accordingly.

floofy i want you to realize my drunken degenerate ass has a fema id and is a certified federal first responder. now think and realize that like im not the worst drinker im not the worst tempered im not the worst fucking person who works for the fed. Now imagine what a worse person than me could be like with the power you want to give them

[Kernen]

That's why we need a stronger government. So we can crack down on people who try to break into the system and deal with them accordingly.

floofy i want you to realize my drunken degenerate ass has a fema id and is a certified federal first responder. now think and realize that like im not the worst drinker im not the worst tempered im not the worst fucking person who works for the fed. Now imagine what a worse person than me could be like with the power you want to give them

Floof thinks giving the government more power can't result in the government abusing that power.

[Wallenburg]

Safety is freedom. There's no freedom in a world where I live a cold, starving, and short life, even if there's no state to tell me what to do.

[Rakhalia]

Safety is freedom. There's no freedom in a world where I live a cold, starving, and short life, even if there's no state to tell me what to do.

This, 100%. Freedom is safety, and safety is freedom. The two are completely impossible to abstract from each other, and any rhetoric which suggests otherwise is ignorant or actively pushing an authoritarian agenda.

[Kernen]

Safety is freedom. There's no freedom in a world where I live a cold, starving, and short life, even if there's no state to tell me what to do.

Yes there is. It's Monke World. Where your life is the most authentic life.

[Zerotaxia]

Safety is freedom. There's no freedom in a world where I live a cold, starving, and short life, even if there's no state to tell me what to do.

You mean present day corporate America? One of the most corrupt, bloated, and repressive police states to ever exist? Where being the wrong skin color or growing a fucking plant will get you indebted and indentured to the prison industrial complex which constitutes modern slavery, all because of bullshit laws designed to be applied unevenly to railroad and oppress the working classes. Oh and actual crimes, e.g. assaults and home break-ins, are ignored by the police who operate an unchallenged monopoly and have no legal duty to protect. Yeah no, I'll take total anarchy over that any day.

[Dogmeat]

That is true. I’m think along the lines of freedom from a philosophical perspective. If we’re being literal, true freedom and safety are incompatible. Where I currently am right now I’d prefer more freedom.

It is not a switch but a rheostat. As one moves the slider up or down, the amount of safety increases as the amount of freedom decreases, and vice versa. I prefer more freedom and less safety, others prefer the opposite.

If you have no freedom, you have no safety either. You are completely at the mercy of others, and your fate entirely beyond your control. You can be made to do anything, and anything can be done to you.

This is not a circumstance in which lowering one raises the other. Having freedom gives you the ability to make yourself safe.

[Bewaffnete Krafte]

Safety is freedom. There's no freedom in a world where I live a cold, starving, and short life, even if there's no state to tell me what to do.

This, 100%. Freedom is safety, and safety is freedom. The two are completely impossible to abstract from each other, and any rhetoric which suggests otherwise is ignorant or actively pushing an authoritarian agenda.

I'm not gonna lie, man, "Freedom is safety, and safety is freedom" sounds way more like an authoritarian agenda than "I'd rather have more freedom than more safety." The two are not one and the same. The question is "Is safety or freedom better?" which is definitely something you can answer. Even if Safety and Freedom are inextricably linked (which I disagree with), you can still say "I'd rather have more freedom and less safety than vice versa".

[Golgothastan]

Safety.

[Wallenburg]

Safety is freedom. There's no freedom in a world where I live a cold, starving, and short life, even if there's no state to tell me what to do.

You mean present day corporate America? One of the most corrupt, bloated, and repressive police states to ever exist? Where being the wrong skin color or growing a fucking plant will get you indebted and indentured to the prison industrial complex which constitutes modern slavery, all because of bullshit laws designed to be applied unevenly to railroad and oppress the working classes. Oh and actual crimes, e.g. assaults and home break-ins, are ignored by the police who operate an unchallenged monopoly and have no legal duty to protect. Yeah no, I'll take total anarchy over that any day.

I mean, sure, but "total anarchy" being slightly less hellish than the US police state doesn't make it good. It just makes it not literally the worst state of being. If we're going to fantasize about societies that will never be, I'd prefer to fantasize about one that's actually good.

[Jellian Federation]

You guys on the internet seem to hyperbole everything.
Yeah it’s bad.
The system is broken, every day life can vary from ok to really bad.
But it’s not all hell everywhere all the time.

[La Cocina del Bodhi]

Safety is freedom. There's no freedom in a world where I live a cold, starving, and short life, even if there's no state to tell me what to do.

You mean present day corporate America? One of the most corrupt, bloated, and repressive police states to ever exist?

Isn't that a tad extreme? The American government has serious faults, sure. But the constitution provides a solid framework of important freedoms. Many places have been far more corrupt and repressive, and many of them still exist today

Where being the wrong skin color or growing a fucking plant will get you indebted and indentured to the prison industrial complex which constitutes modern slavery, all because of bullshit laws designed to be applied unevenly to railroad and oppress the working classes.

The stuff about race and marijuana hasn't really been the case in a quarter century or so. The latter argument I'm not sure has ever been true.

Oh and actual crimes, e.g. assaults and home break-ins, are ignored by the police who operate an unchallenged monopoly and have no legal duty to protect. Yeah no, I'll take total anarchy over that any day.

But serious crimes being overlooked and dismissed are very often the result of far left activists pushing for reform in the name of social justice and so on

[Untecna]

Isn't that a tad extreme? The American government has serious faults, sure. But the constitution provides a solid framework of important freedoms. Many places have been far more corrupt and repressive, and many of them still exist today

"Important freedoms", not including the freedom to get an abortion, be part of the LGBTQ+ community without being repressed, etc. Sounds real "free".

The stuff about race and marijuana hasn't really been the case in a quarter century or so. The latter argument I'm not sure has ever been true.

You've clearly missed the last quarter century, then.

But serious crimes being overlooked and dismissed are very often the result of far-left activists pushing for reform in the name of social justice and so on

Such as?

[Floofybit]

Isn't that a tad extreme? The American government has serious faults, sure. But the constitution provides a solid framework of important freedoms. Many places have been far more corrupt and repressive, and many of them still exist today

"Important freedoms", not including the freedom to get an abortion, be part of the LGBTQ+ community without being repressed, etc. Sounds real "free".

The stuff about race and marijuana hasn't really been the case in a quarter century or so. The latter argument I'm not sure has ever been true.

You've clearly missed the last quarter century, then.

But serious crimes being overlooked and dismissed are very often the result of far-left activists pushing for reform in the name of social justice and so on

Such as?

Being LGBT without repression is nice, but abortion isn't always the most important right (unless life is in danger)

[Necroghastia]

"Important freedoms", not including the freedom to get an abortion, be part of the LGBTQ+ community without being repressed, etc. Sounds real "free".


You've clearly missed the last quarter century, then.


Such as?

Being LGBT without repression is nice, but abortion isn't always the most important right (unless life is in danger)

Abortion is simply one aspect of the right to bodily sovereignty, which is one of the most fundamental rights there is.

[Relikai]

Seems like letting someone go after killing a mentally ill homeless man is a symbol of freedom.

[Kernen]

Seems like letting someone go after killing a mentally ill homeless man is a symbol of freedom.

Well the guy did go free.

[Relikai]

Seems like letting someone go after killing a mentally ill homeless man is a symbol of freedom.

Well the guy did go free.

Yes go free after a clear murder. Hip hip hoorah for being free to take a life!

[The Vooperian Union]

Safety is a result of freedom. I like both, but state safety is unsafe. Anarchy without money is the only way to truly achieve freedom, or safety.

[Floofybit]

Safety is a result of freedom. I like both, but state safety is unsafe. Anarchy without money is the only way to truly achieve freedom, or safety.

Anarchy is not safe lol

[The Vooperian Union]

Safety is a result of freedom. I like both, but state safety is unsafe. Anarchy without money is the only way to truly achieve freedom, or safety.

Anarchy is not safe lol

Neither is a totalitarian dictatorship.

[Pangurstan]

Safety is a result of freedom. I like both, but state safety is unsafe. Anarchy without money is the only way to truly achieve freedom, or safety.

Anarchy is not safe lol

Um ackshually, living in a society where you'll be arrested if you murder someone is the most dangerous thing ever

[Floofybit]

Anarchy is not safe lol

Um ackshually, living in a society where you'll be arrested if you murder someone is the most dangerous thing ever

Lol