APNM Asks: Should We Abolish America?

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

I like how Marlborough ignored these responses to fit his own narrative.

I didn't, good sir. Americans, presumably considering how often I find Americans making similar arguments about the US as a whole or certain regions of it. As I said before, Americans are used to hostility from Europeans, Latin Americans and other places while we Canadians are the "docile, cute, mini-America" and thus this comes as a massive shock. Once again however, Canadians are the anti-Americans that exist within God's mind.

I don't exactly see my fellow Americans calling for the death of our nation. So you're wrong on that count.

But in 1776 there was no "Canada," simply one whole British North America. A separate Canadian identity didn't really develop until after the American loyalists immigrated to Canada and populated the area. Before that, Anglo-Canada practically didn't exist.

Quebec was a separate area of the British Empire and not part of the Thirteen Colonies. Further, Canada is more than just it's Anglo part. See unlike America, we're more accepting of a mosaic.

Hence why I specified "Anglo-Canada." Quebec was alive and well (it had been for a century by that point), but Canada as an English nation didn't exist in 1776.

Also there you go with the "mosaic" thing. The contrast between America's dull "melting point" and Canada's bright "mosaic" of cultures is a core part of Canadian nationalism, and the fact that you said this makes me doubt that you are not a Canadian nationalist.

Wheras the United States' current issues are related to political unrest, something which has only flared up recently and will remain a short-term event,

I highly doubt that.

The large-scale unrest we see from people like George Floyd is pretty recent. Yes we had unrest prior, but it wasn't nearly as large as 2020, nor will it probably ever be as large.

Canada's issues with Quebec are older than Canada itself, and will continue to be a problem even after America simmers down.

Do I need to bring up America's caste system in terms of long standing issues? And that's just one of the major issues afflicting America. The fall of the American republic to a demagogue has been something long foretold and feared in American political thought and history.

And again, they can be fixed. The Quebec problem can't.

America has issues, yes, but that doesn't necessitate the abolition of the whole, but rather reform to fix those political issues.

I don't want America abolished because of its issues, I want it abolished because it wants to spread its issues to everyone else. It's an existential threat. You're basically Western civilization's answer to China in that you think you are the Middle Kingdom and wish for humanity to orbit around you and all your silly little ideas.

Oh boy, here we go with the rhetoric.

America does not want to spread it's issues to everyone else, that's an unintentional consequence of the Cold War and the War on Terror. America only pushed it's global influence so far because it wanted to fight it's main rival (the USSR), and when that ended America didn't know how to disengage with global interference.

I, much like you, don't like America's interference in other countries affairs. I think we should be more cooperative rather than interventionist. I am not advocating in any way, shape, or form for the expansion of American foreign influence and interference. At the same time though, it's a bit too extreme to abolish America when it'd be easier for America to do a hard reset on foreign policy and start all over, drastically simplifying the equation.

On the flip side, Canada will never find a good solution to the Quebec issue, since Quebec will probably continue to push for more autonomy or even independence from Canada. After all, the 1995 Quebec Independence Referendum only narrowly failed by a few thousand votes. And even now, the margin between independence and remaining with Canada are still quite small (perhaps by a percent or less), although more voters have certainly become undecided on the issue. Either way, though, Quebec will remain a problem while America's temporary problems and unrest will either be fixed or fade away like many modern movements (sadly) do.

The sovereignty movement in Quebec splintered years ago and a number of them dropped independence as a goal in favour of just remaining autonomy. The majority of people in Quebec don't think it should be an independent country. https://www.journaldequebec.com/2020/10/24/la-souverainete-toujours-vivante

Our problems are not comparable and Canada is far more stable than America is which is among the reasons we need to secure ourselves from the United States. Unstable states make irrational states and America even when stable can often act irrationally so that makes it even worse.

Yeah, I will admit that the last one was weaker than the rest, especially since the independence factions have splintered. That won't stop Quebec from continuing to be an issue though, as pushing for more autonomy still means they will bother Canada constantly with the question of more and more autonomy.

Also again, yet another baseless claim that the United States acts irrationally. Before WWI America's foreign policy was pretty straightforward and simple, to the point where you would have no qualms with it. The only reason it's gotten so bad as it is now is because of the World Wars and Cold War, which allowed for American politicians to impose the label of "world police" onto a reluctant and unwilling America, for good or bad.

Also I think what makes American imperialism pretty horrifying is that it was primarily of the violent population replacement model. That's not to say other empires at the time didn't have similar issues but most British colonies were not meant to replace the existing population. No, the closest comparison would be German Drang nach Osten which culminated of course in Nazi Germany's genocidal war into Eastern Europe. Hitler also further compared what he was doing to what America did in its drang nach Westen in regards to the indigenous people. Probably among the reasons he enjoyed Western films so much.

Stop pretending like your country has the moral high ground when it clearly committed atrocities just as bad as the United States. Canada was just as bad as America in this regard, even by your own admission.

[Salus Maior]

Your post basically assumes that anyone advocating the break-up of the UK or any other country isn't wishing for a violent collapse, whereas anyone advocating the break-up of the US clearly is. Which shows you want to downplay such suggestions when they target other countries and exaggerate them out of all proportion when your own country is on the receiving end.

Well, the avoidance of violence was what the referendum was for, right? Those sorts of things aren't legal in the U.S, because we had a problem with secession a while ago and we made secessionism explicitly opposed to the Constitution. There wouldn't be a way for the U.S to break up except through incredible violence.

Well, and again, I don't want the British to break up even by legal and peaceful means.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Wait, hold up.

I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here. Because I explicitly said I don't want Britain to split up, and have said that national collapses are a bad thing. Which they tend to be unless you're Slovenia.

Your post basically assumes that anyone advocating the break-up of the UK or any other country isn't wishing for a violent collapse, whereas anyone advocating the break-up of the US clearly is. Which shows you want to downplay such suggestions when they target other countries and exaggerate them out of all proportion when your own country is on the receiving end.

I criticized the notion of America's supposed "inherent greatness" numerous times. Also, this is if Nekostan expanded his contempt towards everyone living in China, not just the State, Culture, and Society. And Nikko is rightfully serving a long forumban anyway for the crap he does pull. Nikko doing something similar also doesn't make this acceptable. Again, saying "I don't like the U.S. for X,Y,Z" is one thing, shitting and pissing on everyone living here is another.

I'm of Irish ancestry, and my family came to the U.S. because of the crap that the British pulled. Maybe I should make a thread about Britain, and most importantly, everyone living there and see how your fellow countrymen like it. Again, he did more than advocate America's balkanization.

By all means go ahead and post it. No one will care because we're all totally used to it, especially from Irish Americans whose last connection to their ancestral homeland is an inherited hatred of the British.

I have no hatred of the British, but I do think there would be people in your country who would not like such a post. Especially many Conservatives if they have a spine.

[Old Tyrannia]

Your post basically assumes that anyone advocating the break-up of the UK or any other country isn't wishing for a violent collapse, whereas anyone advocating the break-up of the US clearly is. Which shows you want to downplay such suggestions when they target other countries and exaggerate them out of all proportion when your own country is on the receiving end.

By all means go ahead and post it. No one will care because we're all totally used to it, especially from Irish Americans whose last connection to their ancestral homeland is an inherited hatred of the British.

I have no hatred of the British, but I do think there would be people in your country who would not like such a post. Especially many Conservatives if they have a spine.

I wouldn't like such a post but I wouldn't accuse you of being a Nazi over it either.

Some people might, I don't know. There are drama queens on this side of the Atlantic as well.

Your post basically assumes that anyone advocating the break-up of the UK or any other country isn't wishing for a violent collapse, whereas anyone advocating the break-up of the US clearly is. Which shows you want to downplay such suggestions when they target other countries and exaggerate them out of all proportion when your own country is on the receiving end.

Well, the avoidance of violence was what the referendum was for, right? Those sorts of things aren't legal in the U.S, because we had a problem with secession a while ago and we made secessionism explicitly opposed to the Constitution. There wouldn't be a way for the U.S to break up except through incredible violence.

Well, and again, I don't want the British to break up even by legal and peaceful means.

This is an extremely dishonest way to avoid acknowledging your double standard.

[Salus Maior]

Also I think what makes American imperialism pretty horrifying is that it was primarily of the violent population replacement model. That's not to say other empires at the time didn't have similar issues but most British colonies were not meant to replace the existing population.

No, the closest comparison would be German Drang nach Osten which culminated of course in Nazi Germany's genocidal war into Eastern Europe. Hitler also further compared what he was doing to what America did in its drang nach Westen in regards to the indigenous people. Probably among the reasons he enjoyed Western films so much.

True, most of them were corporate enterprises meant to exploit the region and drag the wealth out.

And again, the British started the population replacement model in the American colonies. And they continued that policy in a number of other colonies where people actually wanted to settle. Native Tasmanians no longer even exist because of British rule, that was a true genocide. And again, Canada was also a colony of population replacement. You could also ask the Boers how they felt about the British.

I'm not trying to dismiss what America did of course, I have significant sympathies for Native American and First Nations peoples, but you're literally trying to defend what once was the largest Imperial and colonial power in history, from whom a lot of America's ideas about race had their origin. America's immediate geopolitical predecessor. Do you see how absurd that is?

[Salus Maior]

This is an extremely dishonest way to avoid acknowledging your double standard.

I mean, unless you believe that a "yes" on the independence referendum would have still ended in violence I don't see how it is a double standard. I do think largely peaceful secessions can happen, the Czechoslovakia split comes to mind.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I have no hatred of the British, but I do think there would be people in your country who would not like such a post. Especially many Conservatives if they have a spine.

I wouldn't like such a post but I wouldn't accuse you of being a Nazi over it either.

Some people might, I don't know. There are drama queens on this side of the Atlantic as well.

I made an accurate comparison based on the rhetoric he used against the populace. I'm not a "drama queen" for that.

[Old Tyrannia]

This is an extremely dishonest way to avoid acknowledging your double standard.

I mean, unless you believe that a "yes" on the independence referendum would have still ended in violence I don't see how it is a double standard. I do think largely peaceful secessions can happen, the Czechoslovakia split comes to mind.

But not in the US apparently. The US can only split up through violence, conveniently making anyone who advocates breaking up the US a monster, whilst the same is not true of any other country.

I wouldn't like such a post but I wouldn't accuse you of being a Nazi over it either.

Some people might, I don't know. There are drama queens on this side of the Atlantic as well.

I made an accurate comparison based on the rhetoric he used against the populace. I'm not a "drama queen" for that.

I disagree that any of APNM's rhetoric can realistically be compared to Nazi anti-semitic or other racially charged rhetoric. I think you are greatly overexaggerating.

[The Reformed American Republic]

This is an extremely dishonest way to avoid acknowledging your double standard.

I mean, unless you believe that a "yes" on the independence referendum would have still ended in violence I don't see how it is a double standard. I do think largely peaceful secessions can happen, the Czechoslovakia split comes to mind.

A split also isn't going to be forced upon them. They wanted to stay together and they did as a result.

[Salus Maior]

I mean, unless you believe that a "yes" on the independence referendum would have still ended in violence I don't see how it is a double standard. I do think largely peaceful secessions can happen, the Czechoslovakia split comes to mind.

But not in the US apparently. The US can only split up through violence, conveniently making anyone who advocates breaking up the US a monster, whilst the same is not true of any other country.

As far as the current laws and the Constitution says on the matter, there is no legal and peaceful means to secede from the United States. So, as things are, I would oppose means to break up the U.S because that would end in violence. Probably fall of the USSR tier suffering.

If there were a legal means, I probably wouldn't have that much of a problem with it.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I think you are greatly overexaggerating.

I think you are bigoted against Americans. Bigots tend to sympathize with one another.

[Old Tyrannia]

I think you are greatly overexaggerating.

I think you are bigoted against Americans. Bigots tend to sympathize with one another.

Declaring the other party to be bigots is more or less tantamount to admitting to having lost the argument.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I think you are bigoted against Americans. Bigots tend to sympathize with one another.

Declaring the other party to be bigots is more or less tantamount to admitting to having lost the argument.

Ok, I was a bit much with that post, but you did call me a "drama queen." I think you are naturally inclined to sympathize with such positions because you've made it clear you hate Americans. That's why you took a pot shot at us in this already heated thread.

[Old Tyrannia]

Declaring the other party to be bigots is more or less tantamount to admitting to having lost the argument.

Ok, I was a bit much with that post, but you did call me a "drama queen." I think you are naturally inclined to sympathize with such positions because you've made it clear you hate Americans. That's why you took a pot shot at us in this already heated thread.

I don't hate Americans, I resent American exceptionalism. The way many Americans in this thread have responded to the OP's admittedly extreme proposal demonstrates an inability to handle criticism of your country that is part and parcel of American exceptionalism.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Ok, I was a bit much with that post, but you did call me a "drama queen." I think you are naturally inclined to sympathize with such positions because you've made it clear you hate Americans. That's why you took a pot shot at us in this already heated thread.

I don't hate Americans, I resent American exceptionalism. The way many Americans in this thread have responded to the OP's admittedly extreme proposal demonstrates an inability to handle criticism of your country that is part and parcel of American exceptionalism.

I would think extreme proposals would get extreme backlashes by a group of people who would be punished by them. Again, criticism is fine, this is something else, and an extreme reaction to this is unproblematic. If this was more moderate, then you'd have a point.

[Old Tyrannia]

I don't hate Americans, I resent American exceptionalism. The way many Americans in this thread have responded to the OP's admittedly extreme proposal demonstrates an inability to handle criticism of your country that is part and parcel of American exceptionalism.

I would think extreme proposals would get extreme backlashes by a group of people who would be punished by them. Again, criticism is fine, this is something else, and an extreme position to this is unproblematic. If this more moderate, then you'd have a point.

And yet Americans don't seem to feel there is anything wrong with extreme hostility towards other countries. It's only when the shoe is on the other foot that it becomes unacceptable.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I would think extreme proposals would get extreme backlashes by a group of people who would be punished by them. Again, criticism is fine, this is something else, and an extreme position to this is unproblematic. If this more moderate, then you'd have a point.

And yet Americans don't seem to feel there is anything wrong with extreme hostility towards other countries. It's only when the shoe is on the other foot that it becomes unacceptable.

I always direct extreme hostility to the governments of some other countries or extremist groups, not the people themselves. The OP expresses contempt for everyone living here. That's different, and it is wrong to do, no matter who does it, and I have condemned other Americans for having similar views against Chinese people. Most Americans aren't like that though. This is not just deserts.

[Salus Maior]

I would think extreme proposals would get extreme backlashes by a group of people who would be punished by them. Again, criticism is fine, this is something else, and an extreme position to this is unproblematic. If this more moderate, then you'd have a point.

And yet Americans don't seem to feel there is anything wrong with extreme hostility towards other countries. It's only when the shoe is on the other foot that it becomes unacceptable.

Blame Wilson for that.

My guy Blessed Karl was done wrong.

[Western Fardelshufflestein]

And yet Americans don't seem to feel there is anything wrong with extreme hostility towards other countries. It's only when the shoe is on the other foot that it becomes unacceptable.

I always direct extreme hostility to the governments of some other countries or extremist groups, not the people themselves. The OP expresses contempt for everyone living here. That's different, and it is wrong to do, no matter who does it, and I have condemned other Americans for having similar views against Chinese people. Most Americans aren't like that though. This is not just deserts.

Yup. This.
Addendum: I was post number 420. Let's goooooooo.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Ok, I was a bit much with that post, but you did call me a "drama queen." I think you are naturally inclined to sympathize with such positions because you've made it clear you hate Americans. That's why you took a pot shot at us in this already heated thread.

I don't hate Americans, I resent American exceptionalism. The way many Americans in this thread have responded to the OP's admittedly extreme proposal demonstrates an inability to handle criticism of your country that is part and parcel of American exceptionalism.

Many other countries have exceptionalism. The US form is distinct because it was long isolated from the nations it deemed good enough to compare with, and since, isolated from every other nation by superiority of power.

Australia was isolated too, but not comfortably: Britain or the US were always much superior powers. So we never made a virtue of "isolationism", more correctly identifying it as parochialism.

[The Reformed American Republic]

And yet Americans don't seem to feel there is anything wrong with extreme hostility towards other countries. It's only when the shoe is on the other foot that it becomes unacceptable.

I always direct extreme hostility to the governments of some other countries or extremist groups, not the people themselves. The OP expresses contempt for everyone living here. That's different, and it is wrong to do, no matter who does it, and I have condemned other Americans for having similar views against Chinese people. Most Americans aren't like that though. This is not just deserts.

Of course, this is the post that wouldn't get a response.

[Stellar Colonies]

If this thread has demonstrated anything it's that "American fragility" is absolutely a thing.

Imagine if every time an American blundered into a thread about Scottish independence to trot out the line that Britain is an evil imperialist construct that should be dissolved I accused them of being a genocidal maniac.

It isn't 'fragile' to respond negatively to something as smugly inflammatory and exaggerated as

A Pimp Named Marlborough would like to have you all to ponder a question: Should we abolish the United States of America? Not just a distinct political entity but as a unified people. You see America is a horrendous country with nothing really to offer. It is constantly trying to shove its shitty culture down everyone else's throat. Problems that exist in America, Americans will automatically assume exist elsewhere to the same extent: for example in the realm of political fracturing and racial tensions. This is however not the case, some countries even when they have come up short, still managed to at least a D on human dignity whereas America has constantly gotten an F. This is after all the country that largely inspired Nazi Germany but also whose racism actually shocked and somewhat disgusted the Nazis. Furthermore their culture promotes obesity, hatred of women and anti-intellectualism. It is a lumpenproletariat culture where dignity and ingenuity goes to die. It causes problems in many other countries; the violence seen in Mexico and Central America has its roots in American culture's inability to not snort blood drugs. I'd hazard most of the people who have invented things in America of any sort of global significance weren't even born Americans or at the very least were born to immigrant families. They didn't even invent basketball and the first baseball game was played in southern Ontario. In short there is nothing redeeming about America. If I want to see a desert, I'll go to northern Mexico; the Rocky Mountains, Alberta; a tropical paradise I'll go to Jamaica instead of that kitsch hellhole called Hawaii. In short there is nothing redeeming about this place. Not its culture, not its institutions, and certainly not its power.

So, why does the rest of the world tolerate this decaying empire? We should not, I say. I say we should turn our backs to America and let them squabble and fracture until they are nothing but a loose collection of failed states. Hell, it shouldn't be too difficult, Americans like killing each other even in the best of times.

Personally I think my country should build a border wall and prohibit Americans from moving here.

Thank you for indulging me, NSG. Now what do you fine denizens think? Particularly those not of an American persuasion.

[The Reformed American Republic]

If this thread has demonstrated anything it's that "American fragility" is absolutely a thing.

Imagine if every time an American blundered into a thread about Scottish independence to trot out the line that Britain is an evil imperialist construct that should be dissolved I accused them of being a genocidal maniac.

It isn't 'fragile' to respond negatively to something as smugly inflammatory and exaggerated as

A Pimp Named Marlborough would like to have you all to ponder a question: Should we abolish the United States of America? Not just a distinct political entity but as a unified people. You see America is a horrendous country with nothing really to offer. It is constantly trying to shove its shitty culture down everyone else's throat. Problems that exist in America, Americans will automatically assume exist elsewhere to the same extent: for example in the realm of political fracturing and racial tensions. This is however not the case, some countries even when they have come up short, still managed to at least a D on human dignity whereas America has constantly gotten an F. This is after all the country that largely inspired Nazi Germany but also whose racism actually shocked and somewhat disgusted the Nazis. Furthermore their culture promotes obesity, hatred of women and anti-intellectualism. It is a lumpenproletariat culture where dignity and ingenuity goes to die. It causes problems in many other countries; the violence seen in Mexico and Central America has its roots in American culture's inability to not snort blood drugs. I'd hazard most of the people who have invented things in America of any sort of global significance weren't even born Americans or at the very least were born to immigrant families. They didn't even invent basketball and the first baseball game was played in southern Ontario. In short there is nothing redeeming about America. If I want to see a desert, I'll go to northern Mexico; the Rocky Mountains, Alberta; a tropical paradise I'll go to Jamaica instead of that kitsch hellhole called Hawaii. In short there is nothing redeeming about this place. Not its culture, not its institutions, and certainly not its power.

So, why does the rest of the world tolerate this decaying empire? We should not, I say. I say we should turn our backs to America and let them squabble and fracture until they are nothing but a loose collection of failed states. Hell, it shouldn't be too difficult, Americans like killing each other even in the best of times.

Personally I think my country should build a border wall and prohibit Americans from moving here.

Thank you for indulging me, NSG. Now what do you fine denizens think? Particularly those not of an American persuasion.

A hated group is probably not going to appease a bigot. He hates Americans regardless of what he claims, especially when he called me a "drama queen" for calling out the stupidity of that post and the grotesqueness of OPs political views. He might not agree with OP entirely, but he is very sympathetic, to the point of using potshots against Americans being angered at that crap.

[Western Fardelshufflestein]

It isn't 'fragile' to respond negatively to something as smugly inflammatory and exaggerated as

A hated group is probably not going to appease a bigot. He hates Americans regardless of what he claims, especially when he called me a "drama queen" for calling out the stupidity of that post and the grotesqueness of OPs political views. He might not agree with OP entirely, but he is very sympathetic, to the point of using potshots against Americans being angered at that crap.

People aren't fragile when they call out someone else for being a d*ck. Those who use buzzwords to throw immorality on their opponents because they were called out are less thick-skinned.

[Picairn]

What is it with people proposing genocidal ideas like abolition of countries popping up in NSG lately? First Nekostan, and now Marlborough.