Insaanistan wrote:Attempted Socialism wrote:They're clearly the bad guys? Genocide, warcrimes, ordering mass slaughter and enslavement, proclaiming crazy and evil laws... It's like if you read American Psycho, Bateman is the main character, sure, but we all recognise that he's the villain of the story.
Let’s focus on Muhammad (pbuh) for a sec: Part of his last sermon was “There is no superiority of an Arab over an non-Arab, nor is there any superiority of a non-Arab over an Arab. Nor is there any superiority of a white over a black. Nor is there any superiority of a black over a white.”
Nice cherry-pick. We both know this is not the impression you get from reading the Quran, which doesn't just accept but requires slavery, sexism and racism to be committed.
Muhammad’s rules of war:
“1. Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.
2. Do not practice treachery or mutilation.
3. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees.
4. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food.
5. If one fights his brother, [he must] avoid striking the face, for God created him in the image of Adam.
6. Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship.
7. Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.
8. Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.
9. No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.
10. Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they commit evil.”
Why do you lie?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran ... /long.htmlhttp://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran ... rance.htmlBefore prophethood, Muhammad (pbuh) freed the few slaves he had, and treated them very well. When he married Khadijah, he immediately freed all her slaves. During prophethood, he bought slaves just to immediately free them and ordered his followers to do the same if able. He made it so if you hit a slave, insult a slave, or treat a slave badly you have to free them. Islam gives one rewards for freeing slaves. The Qur’ân condemns slavery by saying all people belong only to God and no one else.
Was this before or after be specifically endorsed slavery and clearly states that slaves are property, to be raped, abused or killed as you please?
Crazy evil laws? In the words of Amaar when his father caught him sneaking out to listen to Muhammad (pbuh) and his dad said Muhammad (pbuh) was spreading dangerous ideas:
“Dangerous ideas? That no man should starve? That rich should help the poor? That the strong should not oppress the weak? Are these dangerous ideas? That women should not be forced into marriage but rather allowed to choose or refuse? Why only tonight he said ‘Stop the burial of newborn girls’!”
Again, nice cherry-pick.
Nec Terram wrote:Attempted Socialism wrote:Blatant lies, but I like how your version of Mosaic law doesn't emphasise mass murder, warcrimes, murdering your neighbour, raping your neighbour, enslaving your neighbour, murdering your neighbours livestock, punishing everything with death, and giving shitty advice on health, geography, history and biology.
Dude, literally one of the ten commandments is do not murder (English Bibles frequently translate that verse to "not kill" but in Hebrew it has the connotation of "murder).
Yeah, and then orders genocide, murder for every crime, and the slaughter of women and children. Though I, again, prefer this revised emphasis to the original Biblical.
Mosaic law mandates genocide, rape and other warcrimes, that's not really up for debate.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.htmlThe Israelites bathed regularly, as advised by the Law of Moses, washed their hands before every meal, advised by the Law of Moses, quarantined sick indivduals, also according to the Law of Moses, and the meats that were forbidden for consumption were suceptible to dangerous parasites like swine.
First, blatant lies. Second, irrelevant. In 2 Kings 20, figs cures death. In Psalm 103, the fictional Jehova character is the only one to heal diseases. There's no advice about germs, or nutrition, or soap. If a deity wrote the Bible, it is a deity who wanted humanity to die in pain from diseases that are easily cured in modern times.
I haven't seen anything about geography, nor biology.
Yet in just a bit you'll tell me you doubt I've read this book. In Genesis 8, Mount Ararat is higher than Mount Everest. In Psalm 194 the Earth is a flat disc so the fictional character Jehova can watch all the world at once. In Leviticus 11, bats are birds. And of course, all of Genesis is an insane compilation of stories we know are 100% false (Such as photosynthetic plants being chanted into existence before the sun or the flood myth).
Some of these errors, such as the flat Earth, were known around the time the Torah was being finalised. It's not that I ask you to go back to an originalist reading of these texts, it's just that we know that an originalist reading will ask you to be a dumber, crueler and more evil person.
And history is subjective anyway. Who's to say that the first "humans" were or weren't named Adam, meaning the first, and Eve, meaning mother of all.
Given the hundreds of thousands of years between the first humans (Who evolved in groups, that is, there were no singular first man or woman) and the development of the languages in the region, we can say for certainty that the Bible is wrong on this one as well. That's not up for debate.
I doubt you have even read the Books of Moses. Tell me your source of these claims of mass murder, warcrimes, and encouraging murder and rape. They didn't punish everything with death, only murder and adultery (which includes rape). They used slavery as a form of punishment, which lasted only for seven years. The typical punishment was replacement and a fine of equal cost.
The blatant lies about Biblical slavery is so debunked, a Youtube video will suffice to educate you on the topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MFmC6BD1B4Nec Terram wrote:What began as a thread by someone saying they were confused, has become theists and atheists attacking each other. Literally, the concept of faith implies believing something regardless of the lack of evidence or evidence to the contrary. On top of that, an omnipotent being can neither be proved nor disproved by nature as such a being can do whatever they want however they want.
Well, we can't disprove all hypothetical omnipotent, non-interventionist deities, no. But the good thing about the Abrahamic god is that it is said to have done some very specific acts, such as creating the world in a very specific way, flooded the Earth, interacted with various people etc. At the same time we can trace the development and revisions of this deity, from polytheistic roots to the version we see in the Torah, Bible and Quran. Since we know this deity was made up by humans and we know the acts it must have done to be the deity it says it is didn't happen, we can be certain this particular deity does not (And indeed, cannot) exist.