Kyle Rittenhouse goes to trial

[Galloism]

Yes, he ended up shooting a dude who was trying to murder him dead. Unless you think getting murdered is good, the rifle made his situation better.

Which, of course, tends to be much less of a problem if you *stick with your tribe*. These events are petty pseudo-battlefields, recreations of primitive warfare, and I ain't gotta tell ya why it's of utmost importance to do so.

You should know the evidence is he didn’t try to get separated from his “tribe”, but in fact his guard moved away from him when his back was turned.

When this happened, he tried to return to his “tribe”, but police blocked him from returning. So he got stranded alone through no fault of his own.

Then he received a call directing him to go down to the 63rd street car source to put out a fire, and followed directions. They assumed Baluch was still with him. That is where he was attacked.

[Kubra]

Which, of course, tends to be much less of a problem if you *stick with your tribe*. These events are petty pseudo-battlefields, recreations of primitive warfare, and I ain't gotta tell ya why it's of utmost importance to do so.

You should know the evidence is he didn’t try to get separated from his “tribe”, but in fact his guard moved away from him when his back was turned.

When this happened, he tried to return to his “tribe”, but police blocked him from returning. So he got stranded alone through no fault of his own.

Then he received a call directing him to go down to the 63rd street car source to put out a fire, and followed directions. They assumed Baluch was still with him. That is where he was attacked.

Well shit, really? Stupid fucks, I stand corrected. I guess it was not him breaking cardinal rules. Thank you for the correction.
In any case, I don't want to seem as if I'm blaming the kid. Even if he were the one to isolate himself, he was 17 years old and at his first shindig. It ain't supposed to go well, like a first day at a new job. I only wanna give y'all tips if you decide this is something you ever wanted to do. This dumb shit ain't worth your life or court, so take appropriate steps.

[American Legionaries]

Yes, he ended up shooting a dude who was trying to murder him dead. Unless you think getting murdered is good, the rifle made his situation better.

Which, of course, tends to be much less of a problem if you *stick with your tribe*. These events are petty pseudo-battlefields, recreations of primitive warfare, and I ain't gotta tell ya why it's of utmost importance to do so.

Your initial premise was that at no point did having the gun make anything better for anyone. This is blatantly untrue, assuming we consider death bad.

His behaviors, rather he was seperated from his "tribe" or what he had for lunch that day aren't the rifle's fault.

[American Legionaries]

Frankly, we'll never know in Huber's case. In Grosskreutz's case, I feel bad for the dude, I think he was probably trying to do what he thought was right and had limited information.

I’ll give Huber the benefit of the doubt. No contrary information.

Grosskreutz interviewed Rittenhouse, was told he was going to police, could visibly see him running directly to the police and…. decided to draw his gun, chase after him, and try to shoot him before he could reach police.

Was that illegal? Maybe not. Wisconsin has expansive third party defense law. But is it in any way ok? I say no.

I'm willing to give Grosskreutz the benefit of the doubt too. Yes, a year afyer the fact and with countless repeated looks, his actions weren't the best choice. That doesn't mean that in the moment, stressed and under pressure, he wasn't acting in defense of his peers from what he believed to be a dangerous aggressor.

[Kowani]

Not necessarily, a shooting carries the imminent sense if danger to their lives as well, that's a key part of what would have been the legal defense for the two who died, and is part of the (unofficial as he hasn't been charged) legal defense of Gross. They all thought *their own lives and those of others* were endangered by Rittenhouse. It's hard to say whether they'd come to his defense, especially since all of them were there to protest and Gross could have just shouted that he was one of the people trying to mess with Protesters. Hell, that's even thinking that on a chaotic and violent night, they'd either notice, or want to inject themselves into something that they could easily justify not intervening in (after all, they could easily convince themselves, much as you have, that a beating probably wouldn't kill or maim him. After all, like the ADA said, "sometimes in life you gotta take a few knocks")

Reminds me of this from a few months ago.
https://time.com/6108440/bystander-effe ... rain-rape/

n the night of Oct. 13, a woman was raped on a commuter train near Philadelphia—an attack that authorities say lasted several minutes and could have been stopped sooner had any of the other passengers onboard called 911. Instead, in what police say is a troubling sign of the state of society, no witnesses intervened. Some reportedly pointed their phones in the direction of the unfolding assault.

Assuming that others would intervene is foolish.

Would like to note for the record that the police lied, that’s not what happened

[Kubra]

Which, of course, tends to be much less of a problem if you *stick with your tribe*. These events are petty pseudo-battlefields, recreations of primitive warfare, and I ain't gotta tell ya why it's of utmost importance to do so.

Your initial premise was that at no point did having the gun make anything better for anyone. This is blatantly untrue, assuming we consider death bad.

His behaviors, rather he was seperated from his "tribe" or what he had for lunch that day aren't the rifle's fault.

This is on the assumption that the fella wanted to kill him. This has no legal bearing, a person is under no legal (or, frankly, any other) obligation to develop mind-reading powers or earn a PhD in riot dynamics for a case of self defense, apparent and reasonable (and it was) threat to life is as real as actual and that is perfectly legitimate. However, as I said, despite apparent viciousness these events usually end with at worst concussions, not near-gunfights. The only reason we can talk about exceptional stupidity is the *exceptional* stupidity shown with regards to firearms, and that's not merely in Rittenhouse's case; the fella who fired a "warning shot" in the air showed much, much, much, much greater irresponsibility than him. We can talk about not being armed in the first place, but that dude especially.

[American Legionaries]

Your initial premise was that at no point did having the gun make anything better for anyone. This is blatantly untrue, assuming we consider death bad.

His behaviors, rather he was seperated from his "tribe" or what he had for lunch that day aren't the rifle's fault.

This is on the assumption that the fella wanted to kill him. This has no legal bearing, a person is under no legal (or, frankly, any other) obligation to develop mind-reading powers or earn a PhD in riot dynamics for a case of self defense, apparent and reasonable (and it was) threat to life is as real as actual and that is perfectly legitimate. However, as I said, despite apparent viciousness these events usually end with at worst concussions, not near-gunfights. The only reason we can talk about exceptional stupidity is the *exceptional* stupidity shown with regards to firearms, and that's not merely in Rittenhouse's case; the fella who fired a "warning shot" in the air showed much, much, much, much greater irresponsibility than him. We can talk about not being armed in the first place, but that dude especially.

If not having the rifle would have resulted in a concussion, Rittenhouse was better off with the rifle.

[Salus Maior]

This is on the assumption that the fella wanted to kill him.

I mean, Rosembaum himself said more than once publicly that he wanted to murder Rittenhouse.

And then he sat in ambush for him and chased him down.

[Kubra]

This is on the assumption that the fella wanted to kill him. This has no legal bearing, a person is under no legal (or, frankly, any other) obligation to develop mind-reading powers or earn a PhD in riot dynamics for a case of self defense, apparent and reasonable (and it was) threat to life is as real as actual and that is perfectly legitimate. However, as I said, despite apparent viciousness these events usually end with at worst concussions, not near-gunfights. The only reason we can talk about exceptional stupidity is the *exceptional* stupidity shown with regards to firearms, and that's not merely in Rittenhouse's case; the fella who fired a "warning shot" in the air showed much, much, much, much greater irresponsibility than him. We can talk about not being armed in the first place, but that dude especially.

If not having the rifle would have resulted in a concussion, Rittenhouse was better off with the rifle.

Unless it's a pretty bad one, I'd prefer a concussion to a lengthy court process and having to be hounded by this shit, like, for life. Like, wouldn't you? I mean sympathise with the kid, he's pretty much marked for this shit in a way that nobody else is, and it's not like he's the guy who organised this shit. He's getting off with his career intact, and will probably repeat this shit come the next riot season.
And frankly, dude nearly got a concussion *anyways* simply trying to get away. This all could have ended a lot worse if trigger fingers all around were itchier, as they may become.

[Kubra]

This is on the assumption that the fella wanted to kill him.

I mean, Rosembaum himself said more than once publicly that he wanted to murder Rittenhouse.

And then he sat in ambush for him and chased him down.

True, but Rittenhouse also made an unfortunate statement regarding killing. However, I'm sure we all agree that that wasn't a statement of intent. Folks just get real inflammatory during this shit.
And again, this has no legal bearing; it don't matter of the dude attacking you wasn't actually serious when he talked about killing you, he said it so shoot to kill if you got a piece.

[Salus Maior]

I mean, Rosembaum himself said more than once publicly that he wanted to murder Rittenhouse.

And then he sat in ambush for him and chased him down.

True, but Rittenhouse also made an unfortunate statement regarding killing. However, I'm sure we all agree that that wasn't a statement of intent. Folks just get real inflammatory during this shit.
And again, this has no legal bearing; it don't matter of the dude attacking you wasn't actually serious when he talked about killing you, he said it so shoot to kill if you got a piece.

Rittenhouse made that comment like a week before he even had a gun (don't actually know the amount of time, but it was certainly days before he had the gun), and once he was at the riot he obviously didn't act on that. In fact, he acted pretty contrary to that by being a medic and putting out fires.

Rosembaum said he wanted to murder Rittenhouse, and that same night sat in ambush for the kid and chased him down in order to assault him.

There's a difference here in terms of when they declared this, and when they acted in this. Rosembaum also acted completely in line with his comment, Rittenhouse didn't.

[Galloism]

You should know the evidence is he didn’t try to get separated from his “tribe”, but in fact his guard moved away from him when his back was turned.

When this happened, he tried to return to his “tribe”, but police blocked him from returning. So he got stranded alone through no fault of his own.

Then he received a call directing him to go down to the 63rd street car source to put out a fire, and followed directions. They assumed Baluch was still with him. That is where he was attacked.

Well shit, really? Stupid fucks, I stand corrected. I guess it was not him breaking cardinal rules. Thank you for the correction.
In any case, I don't want to seem as if I'm blaming the kid. Even if he were the one to isolate himself, he was 17 years old and at his first shindig. It ain't supposed to go well, like a first day at a new job. I only wanna give y'all tips if you decide this is something you ever wanted to do. This dumb shit ain't worth your life or court, so take appropriate steps.

To be honest I have some unprovable suspicions on Balch.

The idea a trained infantryman would ask the (ostensible) medic to come with him into a hostile AO, and then “accidentally” get separated literally less than 120 seconds later…

Well, my nose picks up a foul odor. Can’t prove it. But smells bad.

[Kubra]

True, but Rittenhouse also made an unfortunate statement regarding killing. However, I'm sure we all agree that that wasn't a statement of intent. Folks just get real inflammatory during this shit.
And again, this has no legal bearing; it don't matter of the dude attacking you wasn't actually serious when he talked about killing you, he said it so shoot to kill if you got a piece.

Rittenhouse made that comment like a week before he even had a gun (don't actually know the amount of time, but it was certainly days before he had the gun), and once he was at the riot he obviously didn't act on that. In fact, he acted pretty contrary to that by being a medic and putting out fires.

Rosembaum said he wanted to murder Rittenhouse, and that same night sat in ambush for the kid and chased him down in order to assault him.

There's a difference here in terms of when they declared this, and when they acted in this. Rosembaum also acted completely in line with his comment, Rittenhouse didn't.

Yeah, again, it's pretty clear that Rittenhouse wasn't in town specifically to get to shooting. Some other folks might have, but he certainly wasn't.
But again, folks get really inflammatory during this shit. I can attest to this, having in similar moments anecdotally heard other says and myself have said things I don't really mean and which I look back at embarrassment with now that I'm not a peacocking young adult, who thinks the appearance and apparent willingness to violence is somehow sexually attractive. Though I'm, ah, I hope I'm a bit more mentally stable than the fella in question. Nonetheless, again, it's fairly rare for any of this to end in life-threatening violence, despite the apparent willingness to make it. That's test for ya, innit?
And again, not legally bearing; if you hear a dude threaten and he moves in shoot him dead, but that doesn't mean it was what would have occurred. If it were, there'd have been greater bloodbaths years (not decades, though) ago.

[Kubra]

Well shit, really? Stupid fucks, I stand corrected. I guess it was not him breaking cardinal rules. Thank you for the correction.
In any case, I don't want to seem as if I'm blaming the kid. Even if he were the one to isolate himself, he was 17 years old and at his first shindig. It ain't supposed to go well, like a first day at a new job. I only wanna give y'all tips if you decide this is something you ever wanted to do. This dumb shit ain't worth your life or court, so take appropriate steps.

To be honest I have some unprovable suspicions on Balch.

The idea a trained infantryman would ask the (ostensible) medic to come with him into a hostile AO, and then “accidentally” get separated literally less than 120 seconds later…

Well, my nose picks up a foul odor. Can’t prove it. But smells bad.

I ain't gonna say it was deliberate. Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence, and let's be real some folks with "training'" (not all, of course) are actual crayon eaters, symbolic holdouts of MacNamara's Moron's.
Like, we can say it was dumb enough to be deliberate, but some people really are just that dumb.

[Albrenia]

Does it make me bad if I don't feel as sorry for Rosenbaum anymore? He had my sympathy back when I just thought he was a crazy person driven by his illness to attack people, but it seems he was something a far bit darker than that from what I've been hearing.

Still feel for his family though.

[Galloism]

To be honest I have some unprovable suspicions on Balch.

The idea a trained infantryman would ask the (ostensible) medic to come with him into a hostile AO, and then “accidentally” get separated literally less than 120 seconds later…

Well, my nose picks up a foul odor. Can’t prove it. But smells bad.

I ain't gonna say it was deliberate. Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence, and let's be real some folks with "training'" (not all, of course) are actual crayon eaters, symbolic holdouts of MacNamara's Moron's.
Like, we can say it was dumb enough to be deliberate, but some people really are just that dumb.

Indeed true. Hence my caution and throwing out of suspicion, rather than making broad declarations of fact. It smells really bad though.

[Thermodolia]

Yet nobody came to Rittenhouse’s aid when he was originally attacked by Rosenbaum

Rittenhouse had a rifle. It's a difficult situation to intervene in, man.
When everyone is having good clean fun and going at each other with bike locks and batons, it's easy enough to be pulled out of the fray and treated behind the lines. I use the word "ritual" over and over for a reason: it's kind of ritualised.

You’ve clearly never been in a street fight have you?

[American Legionaries]

Does it make me bad if I don't feel as sorry for Rosenbaum anymore? He had my sympathy back when I just thought he was a crazy person driven by his illness to attack people, but it seems he was something a far bit darker than that from what I've been hearing.

Still feel for his family though.

I feel sorry for Huber.

[Salus Maior]

Does it make me bad if I don't feel as sorry for Rosenbaum anymore? He had my sympathy back when I just thought he was a crazy person driven by his illness to attack people, but it seems he was something a far bit darker than that from what I've been hearing.

Still feel for his family though.

Death is always a tragedy. Rosembaum brought his on himself, although he was certainly helped along by the medical system failing him.

[Kubra]

Does it make me bad if I don't feel as sorry for Rosenbaum anymore? He had my sympathy back when I just thought he was a crazy person driven by his illness to attack people, but it seems he was something a far bit darker than that from what I've been hearing.

Still feel for his family though.

Monsters are often of our own making. It's not as if we know of Rosenbaum's childhood, where this shit tends to stick.

I ain't gonna say it was deliberate. Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence, and let's be real some folks with "training'" (not all, of course) are actual crayon eaters, symbolic holdouts of MacNamara's Moron's.
Like, we can say it was dumb enough to be deliberate, but some people really are just that dumb.

Indeed true. Hence my caution and throwing out of suspicion, rather than making broad declarations of fact. It smells really bad though.

And I ain't saying your suspicion is illegitimate, far from it. Only that it's difficult to judge at this time.
For real, I feel bad for Rittenhouse. I still think the kid was an idiot, but kids are idiots as a matter of course, and he was either surrounded by idiots of much greater age, a terrible thing, or clever bastards, a much more horrible thing to imagine.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Nah, probably just a horribly drunk driver.

Like, really drunk.

Ford makes that Mustang SUV now, so there's also that angle...

Well, the suspect, who was pulled from the SUV that did the deed, was out on bail for ramming his car into people previously that same year.
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/wiscon ... index.html

Brooks posted bail on Nov. 11 in relation to charges, including domestic abuse. That incident also involved Brooks being accused of using a car to cause an injury, according to a criminal complaint.

On Nov. 2, according to the complaint, Brooks ran over a woman with his car while she was walking through a gas station parking lot.

Prosecutors filed five charges related to the incident: obstructing an officer; second-degree recklessly endangering safety, domestic abuse assessments; disorderly conduct, domestic abuse assessments; and misdemeanor battery, domestic abuse assessments.

Brooks was also charged with bail jumping, because he was already out on bail following a July 24, 2020, incident, according to court documents.

Real piece of work, that one.

Bail had initially been set at $10,000 in that case but because Brooks had asked for a speedy jury trial, which could not be met, bail was reduced to $500. Brooks was released on bail in that case on Feb. 21, according to the district attorney’s office.

BTW, his bail for killing 5 people and injuring 40, plus double bail-jumping? $2,000

Yep, he's jumping bail a third time.

[Thermodolia]

Well shit, really? Stupid fucks, I stand corrected. I guess it was not him breaking cardinal rules. Thank you for the correction.
In any case, I don't want to seem as if I'm blaming the kid. Even if he were the one to isolate himself, he was 17 years old and at his first shindig. It ain't supposed to go well, like a first day at a new job. I only wanna give y'all tips if you decide this is something you ever wanted to do. This dumb shit ain't worth your life or court, so take appropriate steps.

To be honest I have some unprovable suspicions on Balch.

The idea a trained infantryman would ask the (ostensible) medic to come with him into a hostile AO, and then “accidentally” get separated literally less than 120 seconds later…

Well, my nose picks up a foul odor. Can’t prove it. But smells bad.

Same. Not to mention the whole straw purchase thing. Balch is well fishy

[Immortan Khan]

Does it make me bad if I don't feel as sorry for Rosenbaum anymore? He had my sympathy back when I just thought he was a crazy person driven by his illness to attack people, but it seems he was something a far bit darker than that from what I've been hearing.

Still feel for his family though.

I feel sorry for Huber.

The guy who threatened to stab his own brother over a messy room and also threatened to burn his family alive? Also had domestic abuse charges against him.

[Kubra]

Rittenhouse had a rifle. It's a difficult situation to intervene in, man.
When everyone is having good clean fun and going at each other with bike locks and batons, it's easy enough to be pulled out of the fray and treated behind the lines. I use the word "ritual" over and over for a reason: it's kind of ritualised.

You’ve clearly never been in a street fight have you?

What can I say? Just one in this context, and certainly not one as intense as you folks got down south. As for regular ol' streetfights, a couple, but they're not really comparable, are they?
Less organised, more spontaneous. Advanced age means I can sit back, compare personal experience to reports of similar situations elsewhere, and draw conclusions, without having to travel the protest circuit and get my hands dirty.
Besides, you're not yourself a prime candidate for being involved in this sort of thing, are you?

[Immortan Khan]

Can't believe some people are actually going with the "Should have just let his ass get kicked and hope someone sticks up for him or he doesn't die" line lmao.