Should the US (with UN aid) invade China?

[Cossack Peoples]

You shouldn´t thank some god, but the fact that for Trump obviously has come to mind, that if he incites a nuclear holocaust no one would be there to read his twitter-messages.

This is the way the world ends.
Not with a bang but with a bing

Not with a bang, but the shortlived music coming out of an Apache helicopter as Marines go valiantly to their deaths to the sounds of Kanye

[Kyria]

I’d be one to disagree. China won’t become the sole world superpower, the USA is pretty influential still both economically and militarily. Unless the USA royally fucks up, it won’t be falling anytime soon, and Europe is on the rise which could lead to Europe becoming a truly formidable force to be reckoned with.

Eh, Europe is not actually on the rise. Their economy is stagnating, their demographics grim, plus Brexit.

But yes, a full scale shooting war is not necessary or advisable at this time.
But a acknowledgment of a Cold War is both necessary and advisable.

I can try to be optimistic.

Pardon if I recall incorrectly but isn’t China’s economy almost dependent upon American trade and business?

[Novus America]

Eh, Europe is not actually on the rise. Their economy is stagnating, their demographics grim, plus Brexit.

But yes, a full scale shooting war is not necessary or advisable at this time.
But a acknowledgment of a Cold War is both necessary and advisable.

I can try to be optimistic.

Pardon if I recall incorrectly but isn’t China’s economy almost dependent upon American trade and business?

Not as much as it was. Trade with the US is some 5% of their GDP.
But they are still heavily dependent on the US for investment and technology.

While the US phasing out PRC is products is necessary, it would not collapse their economy overnight (although long term losing access to US investment and technology would ruin their competitiveness).

[Novus America]

This is the way the world ends.
Not with a bang but with a bing

Not with a bang, but the shortlived music coming out of an Apache helicopter as Marines go valiantly to their deaths to the sounds of Kanye

Technically a SuperCobra or Viper helicopter...

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

There is no scenario in which a full scale US-China war doesn't go nuclear. Perhaps small skirmishes in the South Pacific can be kept from escalation, but the moment one makes an incursion on the other's soil, the nukes are going to fly.

Even if a nuclear holocaust was not inevitable, a conventional war would be quite terrible on its own. It would be a meat grinder the likes of which we have never seen, and would certainly come to exceed the Eastern Front of WW2, the deadliest conflict in human history in destruction and casualties.

There is no winning for anyone, so please set aside these jingoistic fantasies.

1 China’s leadership as I have “postulated” before May think more about self preservation

2 a war involving China would happen in the sea and in the air, with minor skirmishes repelling island invasions.

China needs to be addressed as they are ramping up tiger military in an obvious territory hungry mindset.

And not “for the benefit of capitalists”

Using our free economic system, they are waging a “new Cold War” and have already taken over Africa, and are working on Europe and the Middle East

And in the worst case of a nuclear engadgment, China only has around 270 warheads and less mussels that can reach continental US, our defense systems can take that capacity.

There is no MAD, it’s very much one way

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Uh, nope. Even though I am open quite open about my intense distaste for the PRC`s Semi-Orwellian dictatorship, I think the US should not assume the role as the neoconservative "crusader for democracy" again as they did in 2003 and 2011. A Sino-American War would obviously be quite devastating and could potential trigger a new world conflict. Imagine if Russia comes to save China`s bum if the US ever dare to launch a war? No, thanks. And we don't even know what the Chinese military is really capable of. I imagine that they will test out their new secretive weapons under an eventual military conflict with the US.

I am no pacificist, but Humanity will never benefit from a massive world war. Let us not be fools and harvest hate amongst us! Only foolish prepubertal youngsters dream of mass slaughtering (and some people in the upper estates of society).

If russa attacks, the europ unifies and gets russa


(At Keats it seem likely under the current environment).

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

The UN? You actually expect the UN to do something which isn't completely usless?
The UN is a glorified joke

And China is not only part of the UN, it's a security council member.

Only after the 70s when Tywan was replaced, because of, again, economic reasons.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

In ww3 scenario Russia has to deal with Europe
And will loose, both sides have nukes and Europe has a much higher population and economy.

Europe will do shit about getting involved in a war against China in the interest of USA, not even the Brits are this stupid. And forget about the NATO-card, because this wouldn´t be a defense war.
More likely would be, that the NATO brakes up and parts of the EC side with China and Russia to keep "the American Empire" at bay.

They will join to fight russa, they have learned the lesson of standing by while a power like that’s acts...

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

China, is, unfortunately, very integral to our economy, how much is the average American willing to spend on their consumer products? $100 more? $1,000? $5,000? The average American cannot affford, nor are they willing spend hundreds or thousand of dollars more than they current spend on even the basic consumer essentials like ovens, microwaves, TVs, computers, cell phones, washing machines, dryers, etc.. You aren’t going to get the majority of Americans to not only dig for those rare earth minerals out of the Earth but produce them into consumer products without raising prices so astronomically that the average American can no longer afford them. You might as well advocate for an AnPrim society at that rate. You’d collapse the whole economy.

Actually it is not that essential. Any price increase would be short lived, the PRC makes nothing that cannot be made elsewhere. You write this like the US and PRC are the only economies in the world. When in reality there are billions of people outside both who can fill in any gap, if cheap labor is what you think we really need.

And many of those items you name such as most large appliances (ovens, washers, etc) are still made in the US or made in Mexico.

And the vast majority of what we get is not needed. Yes we might need to re-think our throwaway consumerism, buy better, but longer lasting things but that would be great in the long term.
We do not need clothes only worn once, cheap plastic toys, cheap plastic holiday decorations.

Remember that 30 years ago the PRC’s economy was basically irrelevant. 30 years from now it could be again. Sure we cannot easily end trade overnight but we do not need to. We can do it gradually over several years.

Also the US is not as dependent on the PRC or trade as you think. Our trade to GDP ratio is only 27%, the lowest of any major economy by far. Our entire economy is NOT based on trade at all.
Only 27% of it is, and of that 27% the PRC is just one part. Just 3.5% of US GDP.
And a fully replaceable part.

Thank you for the clarification

[Gorbehstan]

Sadly there are no good solutions.

I think it is pretty clear that NE Asia is a bloc that Europe or the Middle East can not take down even during the 19th century, let alone right now.

Pretty much any kind of problem originated from NE Asia just like any kind of European and Middle Eastern problem is inherently likely to infect other places. The plague was one of them. Steppe hordes such as Mongols were another. Sinostatism is the current main problem.

[Greed and Death]

I am no fan of China's recent aggression in Asia but I am even less of fan of nuclear holocaust. So I would pass.

[Gorbehstan]

Will Sinostatism, a 2200+-year-old ideology, aided by tech be able to enslave the entire world?

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

I’d be one to disagree. China won’t become the sole world superpower, the USA is pretty influential still both economically and militarily. Unless the USA royally fucks up, it won’t be falling anytime soon, and Europe is on the rise which could lead to Europe becoming a truly formidable force to be reckoned with.

Eh, Europe is not actually on the rise. Their economy is stagnating, their demographics grim, plus Brexit.

But yes, a full scale shooting war is not necessary or advisable at this time.
But a acknowledgment of a Cold War is both necessary and advisable.

Every industrialized and developed nation has "grim" demographics in case you mean the TFR, including the United States and Canada, and Brexit will not collapse the EU unless it creates a domino effect of similiar exits all over Europe, which didn't happen, since support for the EU actually rose ever since Britain got trapped in the clusterfuck it created. And I wouldn't say Europe is "stagnating" economically, given that its average growth rate is hovering around 2% at the moment.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

After much searching I found colorized footage of what would happen to Russia (and the rest of the world) if this insane idea came to pass.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

After much searching I found colorized footage of what would happen to Russia (and the rest of the world) if this insane idea came to pass.

Lemme guess. It shows a nuclear apocalypse.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

After much searching I found colorized footage of what would happen to Russia (and the rest of the world) if this insane idea came to pass.

Lemme guess. It shows a nuclear apocalypse.

Yep. Specifically Metro Last Light: Enter the Metro live-action trailer.

[Luziyca]

No.

For starters, nuclear war is bad, even if I do want Posadas to be right. Secondly, China has veto power so it can't exactly happen unless some shenanigans are done to give the Chinese province of Taiwan "China" their UN membership again. Thirdly, we all know the USA will be only in it to extract China's resources and to stay on top, which given all the shit America has done in its history is not all that appealing. Fourthly, the ramifications of such a war would be devastating to the world economy, considering that even if it doesn't affect the States all that much, there are a fuckton of countries who trade extensively with China and the United States who will lose money because who wants to invest in active war zones? And I could go on and on.

If China has to be invaded, it should be a multinational coalition led by the European Union, not the United States.

[Novus America]

Eh, Europe is not actually on the rise. Their economy is stagnating, their demographics grim, plus Brexit.

But yes, a full scale shooting war is not necessary or advisable at this time.
But a acknowledgment of a Cold War is both necessary and advisable.

Every industrialized and developed nation has "grim" demographics in case you mean the TFR, including the United States and Canada, and Brexit will not collapse the EU unless it creates a domino effect of similiar exits all over Europe, which didn't happen, since support for the EU actually rose ever since Britain got trapped in the clusterfuck it created. And I wouldn't say Europe is "stagnating" economically, given that its average growth rate is hovering around 2% at the moment.

The EU has a lower TFR than the US, some developed countries have it lower than others.
Due to immigration the US population will still increase, while Europe’s is projected to fall.

Also it is more like .3%
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/economy/eu-see ... q3/1664733

And the loss of the UK will massively decrease GDP and population.

Combined with poor milk strength, the EU does not have real super power potential.

[Rio Cana]

No, for the simple reason that it sets a precedent. They could say the same thing about us, "american culture and militaristic actions are a threat to china and eastern civilization, therefore we will invade the US." Sovereign nations, no matter how much they fear one another, cannot under international law go into an offensive war against each other. In fact, right now most people outside the US view the US as the greatest threat to world peace, and not without reason. The US military is the world's largest, most well funded terrorist organization. Not just in my opinion, but by the textbook definition of terrorism. Violence against civilians for political or religious reasons. In Iraq alone the us killed a minimum of 200,000 civilians. They would be just as justified, if not more justified in invading the US by that standard.

Any invasion of the US would be met by millions of militia along with the biggest Air Force and Navy in the world, it’s extremely hard even with Russian support

If you got Vietnam, India, Thailand and even NK. involved you never know.

[Ard al Islam]

No. Better Dead than Red! Death is a preferable alternative to communism!

You might grow up and get a life first...before you cite "Death".

No. Better Dead than Red! Death is a preferable alternative to communism!

That fanatical sloganeering is doing nothing to disprove my point.

Cossack Peoples, as much as I hate to say it, is right. I would rather die fighting communists than live under them.

[Ard al Islam]

No, U.S and China are co-dependent on each other whether you like it or not, invading them would be economic suicide. Don't forget that Russia is Chinas Allie and has nukes. I doubt that Russia would not get involved in some way if we invade China.

In ww3 scenario Russia has to deal with Europe

And will loose, both sides have nukes and Europe has a much higher population and economy.


Perhaps Latvia Estonia Lithuania and Poland would be temporarily occupied, but that would be the full extent

Also China’s economy doesent consist of resources but of cheap manufacturing. If all of that were to go away, short term loss and long term gain and self dependence for many countries most notably the USA

Russia could buttfuck Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc49Zot93QQ

[Ard al Islam]

You might grow up and get a life first...before you cite "Death".

This is a Liberty Prime line from the game Fallout, I'm assuming neither of you played it.

Better dead than red was an actual slogan used by America during the cold war...

[The American Free States]

Any invasion of the US would be met by millions of militia along with the biggest Air Force and Navy in the world, it’s extremely hard even with Russian support

If you got Vietnam, India, Thailand and even NK. involved you never know.

I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m just saying it’s extremely hard to invade the US

[Nakena]

Will Sinostatism, a 2200+-year-old ideology, aided by tech be able to enslave the entire world?

No. Theres an thing called imperial overstretch.

[Rio Cana]

If you got Vietnam, India, Thailand and even NK. involved you never know.

I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m just saying it’s extremely hard to invade the US

Opps! I read it wrong. I thought we were taking about invading China not the US. The US is pretty much immune from invasion.