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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:40 am
by Vassenor
Mostrov wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Gonna be honest, I am pretty surprised that the douchebag son of a gaudy Arab oil sheik hasn't tried to buy his way into the Royal Family yet. Seems like that would've been a more likely source of diversity for the Crown than a mulatto actresses marrying in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodi_Fayed

Rather passé, they've already tried.

Fortunately MI6 saw to that. It would be embarrassing to have an Arab, much less a Bavarian, in the line of succession.


Pretty sure if he and Diana had had kids they wouldn't have been in line.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:45 am
by Risottia
Mostrov wrote:
Risottia wrote:Yeah, gotta keep that Battenberg-Glucksburg-Coburg-Gotha blood purely English as it is. Down with the Bavarians!

None of which are Bavarian!

Neither are they quite English.

Protestants weren't to marry Catholics, don't you know?

As if the Church of England weren't just Catholic-Light (same easy divorce as always, now with female priests!).
Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_ ... oh%C3%A1ry
Not to mention the Wittelsbachs.

Besides, it isn't as though the Catholics were all given equal standing—why my poor Savoyards had do make do with Yugoslavians, at least until Umberto could grab a Bavarian of his own—not that the Almanach de Gotha gave them much account compared to the more papally sanctioned French lillies.

Eh, Vittorio Emanuele II was also descended from the House of Wettin throught his grandmother Maria Christina of Saxony... the same Wettin which is the ancestral house of the Windsors.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:25 am
by Mostrov

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:22 am
by Bears Armed
Mostrov wrote:Fortunately MI6 saw to that. It would be embarrassing to have an Arab, much less a Bavarian, in the line of succession.

Meh, the Queen is supposedly descended from the Prophet Mohammed (via an Andalusian Arab noblewoman who married into one of the Christian Spanish royal families) anyway...
... and there was Bavarian ancestry in the Wittelsbach dynasty of the Palatinate (to which our King George I's maternal grandfather belonged, and another branch of which were actually Kings of Bavaria until just after WW1), too.

Mostrov wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Pretty sure if he and Diana had had kids they wouldn't have been in line.

I know it may be hard to comprehend for you, but that was what was known as a joke. Really, it shows that the Royal's company could be bought, rather than airs of exclusivity, although the transfer between money

Risottia wrote:You certainly aren't familiar with the Church of England's history if you are claiming that historically it was "Catholic-Light", it was thoroughly Protestant and divorce was canonically forbidden until 2002. It was much closer to Calvinism and the Protestant churches of Northern Europe until the 20th Century and the rise of the Tractarianism (the Public Worship Regulation Act and the associated controversies is a good start if you are interested in this sort of thing), which changed into the Church you are more familiar with today. The once ubiquity of pew-boxes until the 19th century should be testament to this.
Under Henry VIII itstarted as mainly "Catholic but no longer run from Rome", under Edward VI (& his regents) it was closer to Calvinism but still with bishops, under Elizabeth it was basically "Don't upset the Queen" with how far the differing strands were accepted varying over time & locally (due in part to events such as whether there were currently open hostilities with a Roman Catholic power), under James it was mixed (because although he'd mainly been raised Calvinist he liked more royal control than the Presbyterians were happy with), under both Charles I and Charles II there was definitely an official preference for a more Catholic & less Calvinist approach, and it was really only when old-school 'Catholic' Anglicanism became seen as a potential sign of Jacobite tendencies that the Crown and bishops became more firmly Protestant.
And note that even the more clearly Protestant side of Anglicanism became less 'Calvinist' in nature once various Calvinist groups had become established as independent & rival sects during the 17th century... In the earlier decades there was also an 'Arminian' strain, and more recently its been close enough to Lutheranism for the Church of England and some Lutheran churches to enter into a state of "full communion" with each other (even though the Church of England is also in full communion with at least some of the 'Old Catholic' churches as well)!

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:14 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki
Bears Armed wrote:
Mostrov wrote:Fortunately MI6 saw to that. It would be embarrassing to have an Arab, much less a Bavarian, in the line of succession.

Meh, the Queen is supposedly descended from the Prophet Mohammed (via an Andalusian Arab noblewoman who married into one of the Christian Spanish royal families) anyway...
... and there was Bavarian ancestry in the Wittelsbach dynasty of the Palatinate (to which our King George I's maternal grandfather belonged, and another branch of which were actually Kings of Bavaria until just after WW1), too.

Mostrov wrote:I know it may be hard to comprehend for you, but that was what was known as a joke. Really, it shows that the Royal's company could be bought, rather than airs of exclusivity, although the transfer between money

Under Henry VIII itstarted as mainly "Catholic but no longer run from Rome", under Edward VI (& his regents) it was closer to Calvinism but still with bishops, under Elizabeth it was basically "Don't upset the Queen" with how far the differing strands were accepted varying over time & locally (due in part to events such as whether there were currently open hostilities with a Roman Catholic power), under James it was mixed (because although he'd mainly been raised Calvinist he liked more royal control than the Presbyterians were happy with), under both Charles I and Charles II there was definitely an official preference for a more Catholic & less Calvinist approach, and it was really only when old-school 'Catholic' Anglicanism became seen as a potential sign of Jacobite tendencies that the Crown and bishops became more firmly Protestant.
And note that even the more clearly Protestant side of Anglicanism became less 'Calvinist' in nature once various Calvinist groups had become established as independent & rival sects during the 17th century... In the earlier decades there was also an 'Arminian' strain, and more recently its been close enough to Lutheranism for the Church of England and some Lutheran churches to enter into a state of "full communion" with each other (even though the Church of England is also in full communion with at least some of the 'Old Catholic' churches as well)!


The hard break with Catholicism came from his son, Edward. IIRC.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:50 pm
by Salus Maior
Kowani wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
No.

It's a longstanding cultural institution that has a great deal of history and dignity associated with it.

Dignity may not be the right word for it.


I'm pretty careful with my words.