Transmaxxing

[Cavirfi]

I don't know what to say other than this: NEVER transition unless you actually have some form of gender dysphoria or if you are truly sure that you weren't born in the right body. Transitioning to another gender is not something to joke about, it is a serious process, do not do it unless you are actually serious about it. Actually, you know what, I'll just say it, transmaxxing for transmaxxing's sake is wrong because one's not taking transitioning seriously, since one's undergoing transition for the sole purpose of getting with women, which in my opinion is very disrespectful to trans people because they've spent probably their entire lives in a state of gender dysphoria. The person transmaxxing meanwhile (probably, they could actually be trans) isn't actually trans and did it for their own perceived benefit. I don't know what to say about that other than that's just wrong.

Edit: Now of course, if one's actually trans but transitioned at the same time that they thought that transmaxxing would help them, then that's not wrong as they transitioned for genuine reasons. However, if you do not have gender dysphoria and transitioned only to get out of a certain problem, then that's obviously not a good way to solve your aforementioned problem.

[True Europa State]

Time to give my two cents on this

From an unbiased perspective, I can understand where they’re coming from. Most likely, these people have low self-esteem in their lives and don’t know what to do. As a result, they’ve observed females and decided ‘Their life is better than mine, I should become a woman’. To a certain extend, this is understandable. As they’re unsuccessful as apparently outlined from the first point, they see this solution as the only/most beneficial method to making their lives better. It isn’t true, but they might not see any other beneficial solutions. However, it isn’t what should be done. Obviously there have been people before me who gave the disadvantages and problems that arise, so I won’t repeat it much. But one point that should be outlined is how a sex change surgery is often irreversible and cannot be ‘fixed’. Not only that, but they have misconceptions on their ‘solution’, and failed to see the problems with it.

From a male perspective, though, I find it ridiculous. If you find yourself unsuccessful, then you should decide to work on improvement and change, rather than a literal physical change. If you think you’re weak, go to the gym and work out to become fit. If you think you’re stupid, read some books and articles online, maybe even a textbook. If you think you’re lazy and unorganized, start with cleaning the house, then create a schedule. I find direct improvement through work and change is better than complaining and finding a loophole through personal problems. I don’t have much of a solution for actual unsuccessfulness, such as unemployment, but I’m sure that there are solutions for that other than changing your gender through a medical operation.

Correct me if you think I’m wrong, I’m willing to debate this.

[USS Monitor]

Problem is we don't have any treatments that can correct someone's "mental gender" to match their body.

The gap between how someone actually looks and how they want to look is going to be different for each person. If it's not that big of a gap, then you might be able to get comfortable by just changing your attitude and/or your clothes. But if there's a wide gap between how they look and how they feel, then transitioning might be the best option they have.

We do actually. I would bet money on the idea that a lot of transgender people are suffering from some type of hormone disorder before they transition, especially if they’re young. For others it might just be a phase or an entirely social issue where they don’t “feel like their gender” because they aren’t good at matching the role.

IMO the most invasive option to treat a condition should be the last. Transitioning is incredibly invasive and as such should be absolutely the last thing someone considers after trying everything else. I don’t see how any other course of action could be moral because if the person makes a mistake and takes an invasive treatment which will not help them, it’s done forever and cannot be undone.

Giving someone hormone therapy would be considered a form of transitioning. If you mean something like giving a person testosterone to stop them from feeling like a transwoman, I've never heard of that working.

Some people do have feelings that change with time, especially when their hormones are going nuts during puberty -- and that is exactly why you don't send someone in for surgery the same day that they tell you they might be trans. It's a process that happens over some length of time and you don't do the irreversible medical procedures on day 1.

But there are some people who have a stronger more persistent feeling about what gender they are supposed to be, and it doesn't go away, and they just need to go ahead and be trans. You can try a lot of different things, but it's important to recognize that some people will end up still being trans and needing to transition. Even if it's a last resort, it's still going to be a last resort that some people need.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Depression as a condition has a whole host of causes, and sometimes just occurs.

I don't believe that. Nothing ever "just happens", there is always a reason. Regardless, I don't see why 'transmaxxing' isn't an attempt by incels to get "gender euphoria" by abandoning the male gender role. Would that not make their claim to the transgender identity as valid as anyone else's?

It is seeming more to me that a lot of transgenderism is caused by a fundamental disconnect between what expectations people think society has of them in a certain role and what expectations they think they can meet. Consistently failing to meet expectations a person has of themselves or that society has of them is a reason depression can occur.

This. The sole reason for me to attempt transitioning is due to me failing to live up the the societal expectations that are put up for men, something I hate and will never achieve. It’s simpler and easier for me to be a woman and to think of myself as at least a feminine person

[Ifreann]

The simple fact is there's more men than Weman in the dating market

Why would there be more men than women in the dating market when there are more women than men in society?

[Loeje]

The simple fact is there's more men than Weman in the dating market

Why would there be more men than women in the dating market when there are more women than men in society?

I think they're specifically talking about dating apps, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's more men than women on dating apps just because most women don't feel like those apps are safe.

[Dayganistan]

The simple fact is there's more men than Weman in the dating market

Why would there be more men than women in the dating market when there are more women than men in society?

Younger generations have a male surplus. More people are attempting to date and find relationships in younger generations.

[Christian Confederation]

Why would there be more men than women in the dating market when there are more women than men in society?

Younger generations have a male surplus. More people are attempting to date and find relationships in younger generations.

Simple supply and demand problem.

[Dayganistan]

Younger generations have a male surplus. More people are attempting to date and find relationships in younger generations.

Simple supply and demand problem.

Exactly, so incels have two options:

Work to improve themselves by becoming more attractive and/or getting a better job (increase their market demand)
Move to a larger city and/or be open to a long distance/international relationship (increasing the supply of women available to them)

Both are valid options, and they're easier, less expensive solutions than gender transition. It costs nothing other than your free time to get volunteer experience to pad out your resume and help find a better job. It costs $50 a month to get a gym membership. It costs $1000 or less to get a plane ticket to go meet a girl you met online that lives in another country. It costs thousands of dollars over many years to get gender transition treatment.

[Krasny-Volny]

Miserable, depressed, bitter, entitled, and socially or emotionally stunted people are the majority of men who participate in this "incel" movement, and young men who are drawn to extremist social/political movements in general. These are not well-adjusted folks.

Getting a sex change will not change any of these things. It will not solve the underlying psychological issues they have which caused them to become "incels" in the first place and may in fact make it worse. They will still be miserable, depressed, bitter, entitled, and socially or emotionally stunted, and likely to gravitate towards extremist social/political movements.

Furthermore, many of them will learn that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

[Christian Confederation]

Simple supply and demand problem.

Exactly, so incels have two options:

Work to improve themselves by becoming more attractive and/or getting a better job (increase their market demand)
Move to a larger city and/or be open to a long distance/international relationship (increasing the supply of women available to them)

Both are valid options, and they're easier, less expensive solutions than gender transition. It costs nothing other than your free time to get volunteer experience to pad out your resume and help find a better job. It costs $50 a month to get a gym membership. It costs $1000 or less to get a plane ticket to go meet a girl you met online that lives in another country. It costs thousands of dollars over many years to get gender transition treatment.

Those who don't improve themselves are destined to die out and not continue their bloodline. It's sad but a large number of men today are the end of their family line.

[Ifreann]

Why would there be more men than women in the dating market when there are more women than men in society?

Younger generations have a male surplus. More people are attempting to date and find relationships in younger generations.

So is Christian Confederation's claim based on demographics or on the vibes on Tinder?

[New-Minneapolis]

This is a bad idea.

Don't do it, Sai.

[Holy Patagonia]

Are you an unsuccessful man? Tired of having to initiate every social interaction/courtship and getting shot down/rejected at every turn? There are some solutions out there, one of the most radical of which is: why not try becoming a woman? Become what you previously wanted but always fail to get.

As of late, I've been fascinated by this "transmaxxing" phenomenon that is allegedly going on. Which is more or less, not becoming MtF because of identifying as trans, but specifically as a bid for personal gain and to trade a bad life for what they think will become a better one as the opposite sex. There is a small Reddit of 3,000+ unsuccessful men who're taking it upon themselves to get a sex change, in the belief that they'll find more personal gain/success as a woman than they currently do as a man, if they were born biologically male. They've essentially given up on trying to "man up" and conclude that women have it better and want to be one of them instead.

There is a 73+ page manifesto outlining the reasons for why being a woman in today's society is far superior than remaining as a man if they've failed to "measure up" to societal expectations or aren't otherwise a "Chad" in their worldview, their term for a truly masculine, dominant, assertive, and successful male who has success with women and in most other domains of life.

To keep it as PG-13 as possible, their reasons for transitioning to MtF being beneficial is as follows:

1. More beautiful to have a feminine body.
2. Access to the trans/lesbian dating pool.
3. More intense stimulus from physical touch.
4. More intense and wider range of emotions and happier on Estrogen.
5. Being able to attract cisgender lesbians (if attractive enough).
6. Being able to attract cisgender men for physical intimacy (if attractive enough).
7. Softer skin and less/no acne.
8. Live longer.
9. Being able to maybe extract money/resources from men.
10. No longer driven to do stupid/dangerous things due to testosterone.
11. Stop and reverse hair loss.
12. People will treat you better if they believe you're a woman.
13. Less likely to get killed.
14. Access to female only spaces.
15. Cheaper car insurance.

The transmaxxing manifesto has some testimonials of men who've successfully became women and have never looked back in terms of being happier than they were in their old life with before and after photos. They contend that the male gender role is broken and obsolete.

Their quote: "Let's face it, if you present as male, there's exactly one personality that will earn you social approval:Chad. Assertive, dominant, successful. Nobody will be impressed by a male that is meek, submissive and struggling. Such males are not considered gender trailblazers; they're just derided as incel NEETs. Nobody is offering an actual solution to this. Tradcons tell you to just man up. TERFs tell you to just abolish gender. Liberals deny this reality altogether. By embracing girl mode, you actually become free to be your authentic self without shame. Society at large requires men to keep grinding and struggling to keep the lights on, so obviously no serious and respectable person will encourage you to just drop down the pink vortex, but it's possibly the only thing that will actually help you if you're stuck being a shitty male with no prospects."

In addition, they discourage FtM transition because their conjecture is that this harms fertility and reproduction for our species and makes the world less beautiful, and that the end result is more beneficial if there are more MtF people but fewer FtM people out there.

Given the emergence of this recent rabbit hole, what do you make of it? Do you know anyone who's doing this online or in real life? Do you expect it to remain niche or become a bigger trend in the coming years? If it is a cry for help, what could possibly be done to keep men from giving up on being men? Are some or all of the reasons they give for it being more advantageous as a woman, valid or not?

I'm very much against sex changes in general, but do concede that it seems more viable to do MtF than FtM with our current medical technology/practices. I can't imagine going for something that is too permanent in that there is "no going back" after a certain point once it has been done. I'm very dissatisfied with what is expected of men from women and larger society, but I'm the sort to never give up my body for the world. What is your experience in terms of it being more positive or negative to be the sex/gender that you are?

https://www.piratewires.com/p/transmaxxing
-Article explaining transmaxxing more in depth (Safe for Work, so far as I can tell).

My online friend wants you to know they wholeheartedly support your goal to transition into a bi girl. As they put it, "You can do it bby get that top surgery"

[Dayganistan]

Younger generations have a male surplus. More people are attempting to date and find relationships in younger generations.

So is Christian Confederation's claim based on demographics or on the vibes on Tinder?

Both honestly. Most countries do have a surplus of males in younger generations, even countries that are known for having an overall gender ratio imbalance in favor of women. Plus there are a lot of women that straight up dislike Tinder or don't seriously use it to find a partner which makes Tinder an exacerbated version of real world demographics. Not that incels should purely blame the male surplus in younger generations for being alone because it doesn't stop most guys from dating.

[Christian Confederation]

So is Christian Confederation's claim based on demographics or on the vibes on Tinder?

Both honestly. Most countries do have a surplus of males in younger generations, even countries that are known for having an overall gender ratio imbalance in favor of women. Plus there are a lot of women that straight up dislike Tinder or don't seriously use it to find a partner which makes Tinder an exacerbated version of real world demographics. Not that incels should purely blame the male surplus in younger generations for being alone because it doesn't stop most guys from dating.

It's the ones that don't that concerns me. Demoralized men are easily radicalized. Just look at what happened with Andrew Tate, he gained a following of millions Just by taping into the incels he got them thinking awful things about weman but the next Andrew Tate could be far more dangerous with millions of demoralized young men.

[Ifreann]

So is Christian Confederation's claim based on demographics or on the vibes on Tinder?

Both honestly. Most countries do have a surplus of males in younger generations, even countries that are known for having an overall gender ratio imbalance in favor of women. Plus there are a lot of women that straight up dislike Tinder or don't seriously use it to find a partner which makes Tinder an exacerbated version of real world demographics. Not that incels should purely blame the male surplus in younger generations for being alone because it doesn't stop most guys from dating.

Are you two the same person or something?

[Dayganistan]

Both honestly. Most countries do have a surplus of males in younger generations, even countries that are known for having an overall gender ratio imbalance in favor of women. Plus there are a lot of women that straight up dislike Tinder or don't seriously use it to find a partner which makes Tinder an exacerbated version of real world demographics. Not that incels should purely blame the male surplus in younger generations for being alone because it doesn't stop most guys from dating.

Are you two the same person or something?

No, I can assure you that we're different people. My perspectives come from having been dangerously close to falling down the incel rabbit hole in the past. I understand what drives someone to that point and I don't like to see it happen to other young men. I'll be the first to admit that demographics can make it tough for young men to date, it just means some of us have to put in a little more effort.

[Ifreann]

Are you two the same person or something?

No, I can assure you that we're different people.

So maybe stop telling me what he's arguing.

[Christian Confederation]

No, I can assure you that we're different people.

So maybe stop telling me what he's arguing.

He's right though, has excellent reading compression skills.

[USS Monitor]

Why would there be more men than women in the dating market when there are more women than men in society?

I think they're specifically talking about dating apps, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's more men than women on dating apps just because most women don't feel like those apps are safe.

Even if you don't end up in a dangerous situation, dating apps are exhausting.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Those who don't improve themselves are destined to die out and not continue their bloodline. It's sad but a large number of men today are the end of their family line.

What’s bad about it? My family lineage will with 80% probability include genetic illnesses including but not limited to shizotypal disorder, heart attack risks and other shit. For the best of the world and the people that I might bring into it it’d be better for me not to have children. I hate to sound ableistic but it’s simply wrong for people with genetically transferred diseases, especially psychiatric ones to have children.

[Rakhalia]

I think they're specifically talking about dating apps, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's more men than women on dating apps just because most women don't feel like those apps are safe.

Even if you don't end up in a dangerous situation, dating apps are exhausting.

While ultimately algorithmically-networked romance was, and remains, an inevitability, I can't help but find something grotesque about electronically streamlining your love life into a series of predetermined interactions, rather than organic interaction with people you just, well, meet.

[Christian Confederation]

Those who don't improve themselves are destined to die out and not continue their bloodline. It's sad but a large number of men today are the end of their family line.

What’s bad about it? My family lineage will with 80% probability include genetic illnesses including but not limited to shizotypal disorder, heart attack risks and other shit. For the best of the world and the people that I might bring into it it’d be better for me not to have children. I hate to sound ableistic but it’s simply wrong for people with genetically transferred diseases, especially psychiatric ones to have children.

There's a difference between not wanting to continue your bloodline and being forced by society to let it die out. I'm all for folks not wanting to pass down Illnesses That is their right.

Even if you don't end up in a dangerous situation, dating apps are exhausting.

While ultimately algorithmically-networked romance was, and remains, an inevitability, I can't help but find something grotesque about electronically streamlining your love life into a series of predetermined interactions, rather than organic interaction with people you just, well, meet.

That would require people noticing you. Not easy for Joe Smoe to get noticed. Online Dating has it's merits but the current execution is all wrong.

[Saiwania]

"Ugh being a guy is so hard these days. I mean at this rate I should just become a girl instead haha. I mean just think about it for a second it makes perfect sense. And who wouldn't want to have a more feminine body? They're just more beautiful right?"

Not sure why, but that dialogue reminds me of something that could come straight out of WataMote. Its too bad that there isn't an episode or any part in the manga where Kuroki Tomoko tries to become FtM for attention. But, its for the best if she never got that desperate. Glad she didn't go down any decisions that can't be undone.

While ultimately algorithmically-networked romance was, and remains, an inevitability, I can't help but find something grotesque about electronically streamlining your love life into a series of predetermined interactions, rather than organic interaction with people you just, well, meet.

Random chance isn't any better in my experience. You'll still get betrayed or any other number of negative outcomes if other people don't see you as great or if you're pegged as an easy mark or person to exploit.

It's the ones that don't that concerns me. Demoralized men are easily radicalized. Just look at what happened with Andrew Tate, he gained a following of millions Just by taping into the incels he got them thinking awful things about weman but the next Andrew Tate could be far more dangerous with millions of demoralized young men.

If there are millions of unsuccessful men out there, there must be some way to rally or utilize them. But to what end? There is power in numbers if you're able to sell them something they'll buy. Love or hate Andrew Tate, he found some way to turn their hatreds into profit that enriched himself.