Police Fire At Hostage & Use Human Shields

[Kannap]

Are the police officers who murdered the hostage and a bystander going to be held accountable or, like usual, not?

Authority prevents them from taking accountability, unfortunately.

As long as no officers died, mission success right?

[Greater Cesnica]

Bruh have you held a rifle before? You're supposed to brace it against your shoulder to ease the stress.

I've been to the range multiple times, and gotten a sharpshooter certificate, yes I know with rifles you're supposed to put the stock to your shoulder. That's one of the first things they teach you when firing a rifle. Also that eases recoil stress, not the stress put on to your arms from the position you take.

There is a technique that involves using your biceps of your shooting arm to mitigate such positional stress, but I digress. Police officers should have more training with patrol rifles.

[Kannap]

Are the police officers who murdered the hostage and a bystander going to be held accountable or, like usual, not?

Involuntary manslaughter that would be.

The bystander perhaps. They were literally shooting at the truck that had the hostage inside. They murdered the hostage.

[Gim]

Authority prevents them from taking accountability, unfortunately.

As long as no officers died, mission success right?

Hahah, yeah, that's life, which is sad.

[Greater Cesnica]

Are the police officers who murdered the hostage and a bystander going to be held accountable or, like usual, not?

Involuntary manslaughter that would be.

I hate how they just came in guns blazing. No fucking discretion whatsoever. Where were the sharpshooters, the snipers, the hostage negotiators? The cops fired first. They should have waited and treated this like a sensitive hostage scenario- which it was.

[Greater Cesnica]

Involuntary manslaughter that would be.

The bystander perhaps. They were literally shooting at the truck that had the hostage inside. They murdered the hostage.

Ah, but it's not murder, because they didn't intend to kill the hostage.

[Volinovia]

So we're just going through the motions of "the cops can do no wrong" again?

Cops can do plenty of wrong. But here I do not see what they did wrong.

[Kannap]

The bystander perhaps. They were literally shooting at the truck that had the hostage inside. They murdered the hostage.

Ah, but it's not murder, because they didn't intend to kill the hostage.

Which is a bullshit distinction of the law.

[Greater Cesnica]

So we're just going through the motions of "the cops can do no wrong" again?

Cops can do plenty of wrong. But here I do not see what they did wrong.

They did do wrong. You're supposed to contain the situation when you have a sensitive hostage crisis. Not open fire wildly. Look, I'm all for supporting cops. But this specific scenario the cops were in the wrong. What should have happened were negotiators should have come in, sharpshooters, snipers, etc. They should have waited for two clean shots and taken them, eliminating the threat of collateral damage.

[Nakena]

Ah, but it's not murder, because they didn't intend to kill the hostage.

Which is a bullshit distinction of the law.

The distinction of Murder and Manslaughter has been introduced by Drakon of Athens and has been around ever since over 2000 years.

[Volinovia]

Involuntary manslaughter that would be.

I hate how they just came in guns blazing. No fucking discretion whatsoever. Where were the sharpshooters, the snipers, the hostage negotiators? The cops fired first. They should have waited and treated this like a sensitive hostage scenario- which it was.

How could they set all that up when they were in a pursuit? You can not set up a sniper on a moving vehicle. You also forget that the suspects shot first so the officers returned fire to eliminate the threat before they hurt people. They really had no other choice then to do what the did. The UPS truck stopped and the officers took down the suspects. There is nothing wrong with what they did. Sure the situation could've went better. But I do not think the officers conduct here is the problem.

[Kannap]

Involuntary manslaughter that would be.

I hate how they just came in guns blazing. No fucking discretion whatsoever. Where were the sharpshooters, the snipers, the hostage negotiators? The cops fired first. They should have waited and treated this like a sensitive hostage scenario- which it was.

Not only that, but the location was bad as well. Crowded highway with what looked like 30 other cars full of people in the crossfire of the officer's shots. Not only that, but officers taking cover behind vehicles with occupants inside, thus making those occupants targets for the robbers to fire back at.

The whole situation was mishandled. Those UPS trucks have trackers on them. The cops could have followed from a safe distance, perhaps until the robbers were away from a lot of people to move in.

[Greater Cesnica]

I hate how they just came in guns blazing. No fucking discretion whatsoever. Where were the sharpshooters, the snipers, the hostage negotiators? The cops fired first. They should have waited and treated this like a sensitive hostage scenario- which it was.

How could they set all that up when they were in a pursuit? You can not set up a sniper on a moving vehicle. You also forget that the suspects shot first so the officers returned fire to eliminate the threat before they hurt people. They really had no other choice then to do what the did. The UPS truck stopped and the officers took down the suspects. There is nothing wrong with what they did. Sure the situation could've went better. But I do not think the officers conduct here is the problem.

They were blocked in traffic. Police have the ability to block off the intersection ahead of this situation and to block the suspects in from behind, which they did. So no, you're wrong. And so what if they shot first? They shot wildly as an attempt to scare the cops. The cops should have heeded this and waited for sharpshooters to eliminate the threat.

[Kannap]

Which is a bullshit distinction of the law.

The distinction of Murder and Manslaughter has been introduced by Drakon of Athens and has been around ever since over 2000 years.

I'm just saying in some cases we can look and tip the scale towards murder where it makes sense. If I'm shooting an apple off somebody's head and shoot them in the head - not intending to kill them - and they die, I've murdered them. No getting around that. Cops open fire at a hostage, they've murdered the hostage whether they intended to or not.

[Volinovia]

Cops can do plenty of wrong. But here I do not see what they did wrong.

They did do wrong. You're supposed to contain the situation when you have a sensitive hostage crisis. Not open fire wildly. Look, I'm all for supporting cops. But this specific scenario the cops were in the wrong. What should have happened were negotiators should have come in, sharpshooters, snipers, etc. They should have waited for two clean shots and taken them, eliminating the threat of collateral damage.

"Contain the situation." - Impossible for the situation it was a pursuit and it ended in a crowded intersection.
"Open Fire Wildly" - They didn't, the suspects opened fire so they returned fire.

How can you roll negotiators up to people shooting out of a vehicle in a crowded intersection? You can't set up marksmen when you're chasing a vehicle. You seem to not know what happened here.

[Nakena]

Involuntary manslaughter that would be.

I hate how they just came in guns blazing. No fucking discretion whatsoever. Where were the sharpshooters, the snipers, the hostage negotiators? The cops fired first. They should have waited and treated this like a sensitive hostage scenario- which it was.

They should probably be charged with manslaughter because that was clearly no professionalism and the deaths could have been by all reasonable likehood be prevented. It should be subject of a proper greater investigations and, if necessary, personal and otherwise consequences so that this doesnt happens again.

[Greater Cesnica]

They did do wrong. You're supposed to contain the situation when you have a sensitive hostage crisis. Not open fire wildly. Look, I'm all for supporting cops. But this specific scenario the cops were in the wrong. What should have happened were negotiators should have come in, sharpshooters, snipers, etc. They should have waited for two clean shots and taken them, eliminating the threat of collateral damage.

"Contain the situation." - Impossible for the situation it was a pursuit and it ended in a crowded intersection.
"Open Fire Wildly" - They didn't, the suspects opened fire so they returned fire.

How can you roll negotiators up to people shooting out of a vehicle in a crowded intersection? You can't set up marksmen when you're chasing a vehicle. You seem to not know what happened here.

Oh for fucks sake do you not have any modicum of logic? They were at a blocked off intersection. I repeat, they were at a blocked off intersection. They can block vehicles in, I hope you realize that. I have repeated my argument numerous times now, and you have ignored it completely and gone on and on.

[Volinovia]

How could they set all that up when they were in a pursuit? You can not set up a sniper on a moving vehicle. You also forget that the suspects shot first so the officers returned fire to eliminate the threat before they hurt people. They really had no other choice then to do what the did. The UPS truck stopped and the officers took down the suspects. There is nothing wrong with what they did. Sure the situation could've went better. But I do not think the officers conduct here is the problem.

They were blocked in traffic. Police have the ability to block off the intersection ahead of this situation and to block the suspects in from behind, which they did. So no, you're wrong. And so what if they shot first? They shot wildly as an attempt to scare the cops. The cops should have heeded this and waited for sharpshooters to eliminate the threat.

Again, the suspects fired first. The Police Officers had to return fire to take the suspects out before the suspects killed an innocent person. It's a sad situation all around. But the officers did no wrong here. And if the police blocked off the intersection then the civilians in it would be blocked too... And do you know how long it would've been for a marksmen team? They do not usually keep them on standby.

[Greater Cesnica]

They were blocked in traffic. Police have the ability to block off the intersection ahead of this situation and to block the suspects in from behind, which they did. So no, you're wrong. And so what if they shot first? They shot wildly as an attempt to scare the cops. The cops should have heeded this and waited for sharpshooters to eliminate the threat.

Again, the suspects fired first. The Police Officers had to return fire to take the suspects out before the suspects killed an innocent person. It's a sad situation all around. But the officers did no wrong here. And if the police blocked off the intersection then the civilians in it would be blocked too... And do you know how long it would've been for a marksmen team? They do not usually keep them on standby.

Most major cities to keep marksmen teams on standby. Usually during pursuits in major cities in fact marksmen teams mirror the actual pursuit specifically for this purpose. And the fact is, none of the suspects' bullets hit anyone. It was the cops' bullets that did.

[Nakena]

The distinction of Murder and Manslaughter has been introduced by Drakon of Athens and has been around ever since over 2000 years.

I'm just saying in some cases we can look and tip the scale towards murder where it makes sense. If I'm shooting an apple off somebody's head and shoot them in the head - not intending to kill them - and they die, I've murdered them. No getting around that. Cops open fire at a hostage, they've murdered the hostage whether they intended to or not.

That was total unprofessionalism and actually quite dangerous to the cops themself to jump around like rabbits around that UPS truck on the open street exchanging fire. Thats not how you do it. Lol. At the very mimimum they should not be wearing a weapon again.

[Volinovia]

They did do wrong. You're supposed to contain the situation when you have a sensitive hostage crisis. Not open fire wildly. Look, I'm all for supporting cops. But this specific scenario the cops were in the wrong. What should have happened were negotiators should have come in, sharpshooters, snipers, etc. They should have waited for two clean shots and taken them, eliminating the threat of collateral damage.

"Contain the situation." - Impossible for the situation it was a pursuit and it ended in a crowded intersection.
"Open Fire Wildly" - They didn't, the suspects opened fire so they returned fire.

How can you roll negotiators up to people shooting out of a vehicle in a crowded intersection? You can't set up marksmen when you're chasing a vehicle. You seem to not know what happened here.

Oh for fucks sake do you not have any modicum of logic? They were at a blocked off intersection. I repeat, they were at a blocked off intersection. They can block vehicles in, I hope you realize that. I have repeated my argument numerous times now, and you have ignored it completely and gone on and on.

I hear people turn to insults when they are losing. I am simply telling you that the police took quick action to eliminate a threat. I see no problem with what they did.

[Greater Cesnica]

Oh for fucks sake do you not have any modicum of logic? They were at a blocked off intersection. I repeat, they were at a blocked off intersection. They can block vehicles in, I hope you realize that. I have repeated my argument numerous times now, and you have ignored it completely and gone on and on.

I hear people turn to insults when they are losing. I am simply telling you that the police took quick action to eliminate a threat. I see no problem with what they did.

*facepalm* because you ignore points and carry on with an incorrect one. Once again, you've ignored the fact that sniper teams mirror pursuits in most major jurisdictions.

[Volinovia]

Again, the suspects fired first. The Police Officers had to return fire to take the suspects out before the suspects killed an innocent person. It's a sad situation all around. But the officers did no wrong here. And if the police blocked off the intersection then the civilians in it would be blocked too... And do you know how long it would've been for a marksmen team? They do not usually keep them on standby.

Most major cities to keep marksmen teams on standby. Usually during pursuits in major cities in fact marksmen teams mirror the actual pursuit specifically for this purpose. And the fact is, none of the suspects' bullets hit anyone. It was the cops' bullets that did.

What? Where did you get this information? I have never heard of a marksmen team mirroring a pursuit. It is dangerous, reckless, and sometimes impossible. LA has one that is in its S.W.A.T team. Miami probably has one. But they do not keep them on standby. And I don't believe that they mirror pursuits.

[Volinovia]

I hear people turn to insults when they are losing. I am simply telling you that the police took quick action to eliminate a threat. I see no problem with what they did.

*facepalm* because you ignore points and carry on with an incorrect one.

You can't call a difference of opinion incorrect. I could say you're incorrect then. But I do not do that because I can see we have two different points of view on the incident. I believe the Police did what needed to be done. Sure the situation could've went better, and it is sad that these people died. But that's what happened and I do not see any wrong here.

[Thermodolia]

Ironic when the military has better ways of dealing with things non-violently than the police. The cops are taught to shoot first and ask questions later and in certain situations that’s warranted but not very fucking situation is that way. The cops in the US in massive re-training especially in the art of non-violent takedowns. Maybe the military police could train them?