Should Puerto Rico be granted statehood?

[Prairieland]

I remember because we were blissful about getting the Fortaleza back from PPD with Foffy...

How is he generally remembered on the Island? The only real point of reference most mainlanders have is his speech at the National Party Convention, which was extremely well-received. Of course, the conventions're all just smoke and mirrors, but at the time I recall a lot of Hispanics, even Mexicans and Columbians, being quite enthusiastic about the possibility of a national Hispanic conservative movement being led by Puerto Ricans.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Anyway, they voted for it, yeah?

So I suppose they should go ahead and get it.

That referendum has been invalidated.

Ah.

[The Rich Port]

Seeing as how I'm PNP, you bet your sweet ass I remember.

I remember because we were blissful about getting the Fortaleza back from PPD with Foffy...

Of course, we all know how that turned out.

I worked with the Fortuno administration at Fortaleza for 10 months. His family, especially his kids and the first lady, Luce Vela, were good people. Sadly, that didn't translate to his governing of the Island.

Of course, Foffy wasn't the one who brought up the charges against Acevedo Vila. That was Romero Barcelo's doing.

You worked for him? I thought you were a Spaniard.

*Jim Cornette face*

Anyway, they voted for it, yeah?

So I suppose they should go ahead and get it.

Well, no, obviously. Why should they take the best available option for everyone?

We should really listen to the guy who lost the last election and libertarians on their concerns that include possibly sabotaged ballots and not keeping politicians to their word.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

That referendum has been invalidated.

Ah.

Yup. I'm not surprised.

[Mike the Progressive]

Anyway, they voted for it, yeah?

So I suppose they should go ahead and get it.

That referendum has been invalidated.

Why?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I worked with the Fortuno administration at Fortaleza for 10 months. His family, especially his kids and the first lady, Luce Vela, were good people. Sadly, that didn't translate to his governing of the Island.

Of course, Foffy wasn't the one who brought up the charges against Acevedo Vila. That was Romero Barcelo's doing.

You worked for him? I thought you were a Spaniard.

*Jim Cornette face*

LOL, yes, I am, and yes, I did.

[Prairieland]

Why?

Deliberate obstruction by the opposition and a "victory" too marginal to really mean anything.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

That referendum has been invalidated.

Why?

For what I can gather, it had something to do with voter turn out and that the results weren't, according to many, clear enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Ric ... ndum,_2012

[The Rich Port]

I remember because we were blissful about getting the Fortaleza back from PPD with Foffy...

How is he generally remembered on the Island? The only real point of reference most mainlanders have is his speech at the National Party Convention, which was extremely well-received. Of course, the conventions're all just smoke and mirrors, but at the time I recall a lot of Hispanics, even Mexicans and Columbians, being quite enthusiastic about the possibility of a national Hispanic conservative movement being led by Puerto Ricans.

Honestly, he's a lot like Obama. He's seen as somewhat of a disappointment, but nobody can really point out what his problem really was. People point fingers, but the problem is hard to understand. I always had a feeling the guy was bad news, and I intensely dislike the conservatism of the PNP. I can't really speak on him because I don't really keep up that much with the politics since I abandoned the landscape completely.

Also... I just found out Padilla is the incumbent.

... *sigh*

That referendum has been invalidated.

Why?

Because Padilla opened his big mouth and shit all over the other half of the island's votes because the half that was supposed to support the status quo didn't vote.

... Although, I have to admit, that is kind of weird.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Because Padilla opened his big mouth and shit all over the other half of the island's votes because the half that was supposed to support the status quo didn't vote.

... Although, I have to admit, that is kind of weird.

Is anyone surprised that Garcia Padilla did this? He's pro ELA. Of course he was going to do all he could, along with his goons Bahtia and whoever the fuck else is at the help pf the PPD right now, to des-estimate the results of the 2012 status referendum.

[The Rich Port]

Because Padilla opened his big mouth and shit all over the other half of the island's votes because the half that was supposed to support the status quo didn't vote.

... Although, I have to admit, that is kind of weird.

Is anyone surprised that Garcia Padilla did this? He's pro ELA. Of course he was going to do all he could, along with his goons Bahtia and whoever the fuck else is at the help pf the PPD right now, to des-estimate the results of the 2012 status referendum.

I'm really hoping they'll snap out of this obsession with the ELA and the pipe dream of independence and just focus on the facts... Sure, that hasn't happened for the last couple of decades... But... Maybe? ._.

I tried to get a revolution going, but I was going through puberty.

[Prairieland]

Honestly, he's a lot like Obama.

He's seen as somewhat of a disappointment, but nobody can really point out what his problems really was.

Also... I just found out Padilla is the incumbent.

Speaking of incumbents, what about public perception of Pierluisi? I met him briefly while in D.C. for CPAC; seemed like a nice enough guy but I was surprised how generally low-profile he was, considering his simultaneous status as a party leader and Congressman.

These probably come off as really basic questions, but it's really difficult to get any information about PR politics in a non-Spanish language that isn't strictly encyclopedic.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Is anyone surprised that Garcia Padilla did this? He's pro ELA. Of course he was going to do all he could, along with his goons Bahtia and whoever the fuck else is at the help pf the PPD right now, to des-estimate the results of the 2012 status referendum.

I'm really hoping they'll snap out of this obsession with the ELA and the pipe dream of independence and just focus on the facts... Sure, that hasn't happened for the last couple of decades... But... Maybe? ._.

I tried to get a revolution going, but I was going through puberty.

Harsh reality: ELA reached it's usefulness 20 years ago, or more. It's no longer a viable option. It no longer yields the results it once did. It wasn't a long term fix, but a stop-gap. Even Munoz Marin knew this way back in 1949.

Deep down, your average Puerto Rican knows this. Deep down, too many do not think independence is a viable option. Also, the leadership of the PIP blows. Long gone are the days of Ruben Berrios, and even Berrios was very meh. Is he still alive, BTW? I heard he had been under treatment for cancer or some such.

So what's left as an option, and a viable one? Statehood. However, that being said, even if this is the choice made by the majority of Puerto Ricans, I don't see an induction as a US state in quite a while.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Honestly, he's a lot like Obama.

He's seen as somewhat of a disappointment, but nobody can really point out what his problems really was.

Also... I just found out Padilla is the incumbent.

Speaking of incumbents, what about public perception of Pierluisi? I met him briefly while in D.C. for CPAC; seemed like a nice enough guy but I was surprised how generally low-profile he was, considering his simultaneous status as a party leader and Congressman.

These probably come off as really basic questions, but it's really difficult to get any information about PR politics in a non-Spanish language that isn't strictly encyclopedic.

Pierluisi doesn't have what it takes to be governor. He's a nice guy, but doesn't have the cojones necessary to run. Then again, neither did Fortuno or Garcia Padilla.

What I mean to say is that I don't even think the leadership of the PNP have considered him for candidacy.

I recommend you check the English editions of some of the news papers down there. I think the PR Suntimes is up. Google them. If not, maybe the San Juan Star is back up, but I doubt it.

www.endi.com, I think, has an English version.

[The Rich Port]

Honestly, he's a lot like Obama.

He's seen as somewhat of a disappointment, but nobody can really point out what his problems really was.

Also... I just found out Padilla is the incumbent.

Speaking of incumbents, what about public perception of Pierluisi? I met him briefly while in D.C. for CPAC; seemed like a nice enough guy but I was surprised how generally low-profile he was, considering his simultaneous status as a party leader and Congressman.

These probably come off as really basic questions, but it's really difficult to get any information about PR politics in a non-Spanish language that isn't strictly encyclopedic.

That's OK, because I'm not exactly an authority. I heard he caucuses with the Dems, which is weird because the PNP is on the short side of very conservative. I'm wondering how clean his hands are. In fact, I'm wondering just how clean everyone's hands are, considering that if indeed PR becomes a state, they will be directly under the jurisdiction of the federal government. We do have SOME claim to privacy and sovereignty in that we can handle our own politics to a point. I know he submitted the bill to make us a state for approval in the Senate, but with the referendum invalidated...

You're gonna get that forgetfulness with a lot of PNP and PPD cronies. They're pretty much interchangeable. If they're PNP, they're pro-statehood and conservative, if they're PPD they're pro-ELA and somewhat liberal, and the less I say about the Independents, the better, although I'm really interested that someone actually says otherwise. Have to track down that post in this thread...

I'm really hoping they'll snap out of this obsession with the ELA and the pipe dream of independence and just focus on the facts... Sure, that hasn't happened for the last couple of decades... But... Maybe? ._.

I tried to get a revolution going, but I was going through puberty.

Harsh reality: ELA reached it's usefulness 20 years ago, or more. It's no longer a viable option. It no longer yields the results it once did. It wasn't a long term fix, but a stop-gap. Even Munoz Marin knew this way back in 1949.

Deep down, your average Puerto Rican knows this. Deep down, too many do not think independence is a viable option. Also, the leadership of the PIP blows. Long gone are the days of Ruben Berrios, and even Berrios was very meh. Is he still alive, BTW? I heard he had been under treatment for cancer or some such.

So what's left as an option, and a viable one? Statehood. However, that being said, even if this is the choice made by the majority of Puerto Ricans, I don't see an induction as a US state in quite a while.

Now,

You sure you're not Boricua, Nana?

Yup, he's still kicking and screaming.

Really sad, considering for a while he was kind of awesome.

[Prairieland]

Pierluisi doesn't have what it takes to be governor. He's a nice guy, but doesn't have the cojones necessary to run. Then again, neither did Fortuno or Garcia Padilla.

That seems to be the biggest difference between PR's Resident Commissioners and any other Congressman; the RC's seem to be really agreeable, intelligent guys whom make for excellent negotiators, a definite advantage insofar as committee deal-brokering is concerned. But those traits that breed an efficient RC seem to run directly contrary to effectiveness in popular campaigning and decisive executive leadership.

I recommend you check the English editions of some of the news papers down there. I think the PR Suntimes is up. Google them. If not, maybe the San Juan Star is back up, but I doubt it.

http://www.endi.com, I think, has an English version.

This is going to be an incredibly useful resource for the Latino Constituencies course I'm taking. Thanks!

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Speaking of incumbents, what about public perception of Pierluisi? I met him briefly while in D.C. for CPAC; seemed like a nice enough guy but I was surprised how generally low-profile he was, considering his simultaneous status as a party leader and Congressman.

These probably come off as really basic questions, but it's really difficult to get any information about PR politics in a non-Spanish language that isn't strictly encyclopedic.

That's OK, because I'm not exactly an authority. I heard he caucuses with the Dems, which is weird because the PNP is on the short side of very conservative. I'm wondering how clean his hands are. In fact, I'm wondering just how clean everyone's hands are, considering that if indeed PR becomes a state, they will be directly under the jurisdiction of the federal government. We do have SOME claim to privacy and sovereignty in that we can handle our own politics to a point. I know he submitted the bill to make us a state for approval in the Senate, but with the referendum invalidated...

You're gonna get that forgetfulness with a lot of PNP and PPD cronies. They're pretty much interchangeable. If they're PNP, they're pro-statehood and conservative, if they're PPD they're pro-ELA and somewhat liberal, and the less I say about the Independents, the better, although I'm really interested that someone actually says otherwise. Have to track down that post in this thread...

Harsh reality: ELA reached it's usefulness 20 years ago, or more. It's no longer a viable option. It no longer yields the results it once did. It wasn't a long term fix, but a stop-gap. Even Munoz Marin knew this way back in 1949.

Deep down, your average Puerto Rican knows this. Deep down, too many do not think independence is a viable option. Also, the leadership of the PIP blows. Long gone are the days of Ruben Berrios, and even Berrios was very meh. Is he still alive, BTW? I heard he had been under treatment for cancer or some such.

So what's left as an option, and a viable one? Statehood. However, that being said, even if this is the choice made by the majority of Puerto Ricans, I don't see an induction as a US state in quite a while.

Now,

You sure you're not Boricua, Nana?

Yup, he's still kicking and screaming.

Really sad, considering for a while he was kind of awesome.

Certain I'm not. Nope. Although my relationship with PR is quite close. My grandparents lived there since the late 1950s. I have family over there. I have Boricua family members and I keep my ears and eyes on news from PR.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Pierluisi doesn't have what it takes to be governor. He's a nice guy, but doesn't have the cojones necessary to run. Then again, neither did Fortuno or Garcia Padilla.

That seems to be the biggest difference between PR's Resident Commissioners and any other Congressman; the RC's seem to be really agreeable, intelligent guys whom make for excellent negotiators, a definite advantage insofar as committee deal-brokering is concerned. But those traits that breed an efficient RC seem to run directly contrary to decisive executive leadership.

I'll be honest. I don't think the PNP, the party to which Pierluisi belongs to, has had a decisive leader since the days of Pedro Rossello. I'm talking about the early to late 90s.

Ditto the PPD, since the days of Rafael Hernandez Colon. And therein lies the problem. To be the governor of PR, you have to be a motherfucker. I mean it. You have to be decisive and an asshole or the party members, or rather, its elite, will piss on you.

This is going to be an incredibly useful resource for the Latino Constituencies course I'm taking. Thanks!

Do check that indeed you can access these newspapers in English. I'm not entirely certain. But you're welcome. :]

[The Rich Port]

Certain I'm not. Nope. Although my relationship with PR is quite close. My grandparents lived there since the late 1950s. I have family over there. I have Boricua family members and I keep my ears and eyes on news from PR.

You'd make a great one. In fact, you ARE a great one. Fuck it. We're not a real country anyway. Anybody can be Puerto Rican.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Certain I'm not. Nope. Although my relationship with PR is quite close. My grandparents lived there since the late 1950s. I have family over there. I have Boricua family members and I keep my ears and eyes on news from PR.

You'd make a great one. In fact, you ARE a great one. Fuck it. We're not a real country anyway. Anybody can be Puerto Rican.

D'awwww, thanks, pana.

Eh, I do believe PR has it's own identity, cultural and language-wise. All you lack is the title of 'nation' in paper. And the food... gods, the food. *drools* So delicious.

Anyway, in this whole shindig, I do believe Puerto Ricans are the ones who need to decide. Of course, after that, the dialogue begins with Congress. We'll see, I imagine.

[The Rich Port]

You'd make a great one. In fact, you ARE a great one. Fuck it. We're not a real country anyway. Anybody can be Puerto Rican.

D'awwww, thanks, pana.

Eh, I do believe PR has it's own identity, cultural and language-wise. All you lack is the title of 'nation' in paper. And the food... gods, the food. *drools*

Anyway, in this whole shindig, I do believe Puerto Ricans are the ones who need to decide. Of course, after that, the dialogue begins with Congress. We'll see, I imagine.

You know who else is an honorary Puerto Rican? Duke Nukem. You should be honoured.

Kind the whole reason I want it to be a state. Libertaria is kind of right: we would totally clash with the rest of the states. It's PERFECT. Yeah, we don't have Monterey Jack Cheese, but we've got stuff.

Honestly, I was always confused by that... Do we really choose, or does Congress then have to ratify our statehood?

[Prairieland]

I know he submitted the bill to make us a state for approval in the Senate, but with the referendum invalidated...

Probably more to save partisan face than anything. I'm sure the legislative assembly enjoys having money siphoned in gratis for infrastructure and public works projects, and this thread has served as a pretty nice indication for why no one on the mainland is in any particular rush to pop the "so when're we gonna get around to doing this whole Puerto Rico thing?" question. Except for Rick Santorum for some weird, anomalous reason.

I'll be honest. I don't think the PNP has had a decisive leader since the days of Pedro Rossello. Ditto the PPD, since the days of Rafael Hernandez Colon. And therein lies the problem.

Decisive executive leadership seems to be a thing of the past for most of the Western Hemisphere.

Do check that indeed you can access these newspapers in English. I'm not entirely certain. But you're welcome. :]

Not from that link directly, but there is an English-speaking sister site for the publication.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

D'awwww, thanks, pana.

Eh, I do believe PR has it's own identity, cultural and language-wise. All you lack is the title of 'nation' in paper. And the food... gods, the food. *drools*

Anyway, in this whole shindig, I do believe Puerto Ricans are the ones who need to decide. Of course, after that, the dialogue begins with Congress. We'll see, I imagine.

You know who else is an honorary Puerto Rican? Duke Nukem. You should be honoured.

Kind the whole reason I want it to be a state. Libertaria is kind of right: we would totally clash with the rest of the states. It's PERFECT. Yeah, we don't have Monterey Jack Cheese, but we've got stuff.

Honestly, I was always confused by that... Do we really choose, or does Congress then have to ratify our statehood?

IIRC, Congress has to ratify it. I know Obama said he would honor any decision PRicans made regarding the status of the Island, but I don't rightly know how it would work.

It's in the hands of Congress, when and if it happens. And another referendum is probably not going to happen while Garcia Padilla is governor of PR.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I know he submitted the bill to make us a state for approval in the Senate, but with the referendum invalidated...

Probably more to save partisan face than anything. I'm sure the legislative assembly enjoys having money siphoned in gratis for infrastructure and public works projects, and this thread has served as a pretty nice indication for why no one on the mainland is in any particular rush to pop the "so when're we gonna get around to doing this whole Puerto Rico thing?" question. Except for Rick Santorum for some weird, anomalous reason.

I'll be honest. I don't think the PNP has had a decisive leader since the days of Pedro Rossello. Ditto the PPD, since the days of Rafael Hernandez Colon. And therein lies the problem.

Decisive executive leadership seems to be a thing of the past for most of the Western Hemisphere.

So it seems. Back in Spain, people like Rajoy at the head of the PP clearly give credence to what you say. Decisive leadership is on the brink of extinction.

[Prairieland]

Honestly, I was always confused by that... Do we really choose, or does Congress then have to ratify our statehood?

It's a two-step dance, really. Puerto Rico will need to pass a referendum whose results are non-controversially accepted as legitimate and binding; Congress then instructs PR to host a Constitutional convention, once one's been written and approved by the Legislative Assembly, a federal bill of statehood ascension can be properly acted on.