Second Amendment Repeal / Gun Control

[Sevvania]

So in conclusion, excluding 1953-1957, the homicide rate is at the lowest point, in the United States, it has been in the last 100 years.*

You just blew meh mind.

[Spirit of Hope]

So in conclusion, excluding 1953-1957, the homicide rate is at the lowest point, in the United States, it has been in the last 100 years.*

You just blew meh mind.

Because of the different listed homicide rates I could arguably drop the "excluding 1953-1957" bit. I decided to leave it in because there was data that showed that a short time period where the homicide rate was lower than 4.4.

Also happily the homicide rate has been dropping recently, so if 2014 and 2015 see similar drops as in 2013 we have a current homicide rate of 4.1, which would be tied/dead on with the low point of the 50's

[United Prefectures of Appia]

You just blew meh mind.

Because of the different listed homicide rates I could arguably drop the "excluding 1953-1957" bit. I decided to leave it in because there was data that showed that a short time period where the homicide rate was lower than 4.4.

Also happily the homicide rate has been dropping recently, so if 2014 and 2015 see similar drops as in 2013 we have a current homicide rate of 4.1, which would be tied/dead on with the low point of the 50's

Well, when doctors get good at patching up gunshot victims quicker and better with better medical technology, you can expect that as a major factor to the decline of gun homicides.

[Spirit of Hope]

Because of the different listed homicide rates I could arguably drop the "excluding 1953-1957" bit. I decided to leave it in because there was data that showed that a short time period where the homicide rate was lower than 4.4.

Also happily the homicide rate has been dropping recently, so if 2014 and 2015 see similar drops as in 2013 we have a current homicide rate of 4.1, which would be tied/dead on with the low point of the 50's

Well, when doctors get good at patching up gunshot victims quicker and better with better medical technology, you can expect that as a major factor to the decline of gun homicides.

So are you arguing the major drop in gun homicides between 1933 and 1958 was because of medicine, or was the drop from 1980 to now because of medicine?

I am having a hard time finding any numbers for firearm related injuries over the last hundred years, so I will use what numbers I can find. If you can provide data that shows the change in homicide rates was because of technological and medical changes I would be interested to see that.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

am having a hard time finding any numbers for firearm related injuries over the last hundred years, so I will use what numbers I can find. If you can provide data that shows the change in homicide rates was because of technological and medical changes I would be interested to see that.

Actually, I wasn't referring to those time periods you just mentioned. I'm talking about the last decade.

[Spirit of Hope]

am having a hard time finding any numbers for firearm related injuries over the last hundred years, so I will use what numbers I can find. If you can provide data that shows the change in homicide rates was because of technological and medical changes I would be interested to see that.

Actually, I wasn't referring to those time periods you just mentioned. I'm talking about the last decade.

So over the last decade you think the reduction in the homicide rate is because of medical improvements?

Again do you have a source to prove this?

[United Prefectures of Appia]

Actually, I wasn't referring to those time periods you just mentioned. I'm talking about the last decade.

So over the last decade you think the reduction in the homicide rate is because of medical improvements?

Again do you have a source to prove this?

Triumph, Homicides Fall Despite Soaring Gun Violence

"Did everybody become a lousy shot all of a sudden? No," said Jim Pasco, executive director of the National Fraternal Order of Police, a union that represents about 330,000 officers. "The potential for a victim to survive a wound is greater than it was 15 years ago."

In other words, more people in the U.S. are getting shot, but doctors have gotten better at patching them up. Improved medical care doesn't account for the entire decline in homicides but experts say it is a major factor.

Emergency-room physicians who treat victims of gunshot and knife attacks say more people survive because of the spread of hospital trauma centers—which specialize in treating severe injuries—the increased use of helicopters to ferry patients, better training of first-responders and lessons gleaned from the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Spirit of Hope]

So over the last decade you think the reduction in the homicide rate is because of medical improvements?

Again do you have a source to prove this?

Triumph, Homicides Fall Despite Soaring Gun Violence

"Did everybody become a lousy shot all of a sudden? No," said Jim Pasco, executive director of the National Fraternal Order of Police, a union that represents about 330,000 officers. "The potential for a victim to survive a wound is greater than it was 15 years ago."

In other words, more people in the U.S. are getting shot, but doctors have gotten better at patching them up. Improved medical care doesn't account for the entire decline in homicides but experts say it is a major factor.

Emergency-room physicians who treat victims of gunshot and knife attacks say more people survive because of the spread of hospital trauma centers—which specialize in treating severe injuries—the increased use of helicopters to ferry patients, better training of first-responders and lessons gleaned from the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Interesting, now I will have to see if I can dig up some numbers on historical firearm injuries to see what that shows.

[Sociobiology]

Not that I'm supporting Appia's stupid stamping idea.

The only thing dumber than the 'stupid' stamping idea is not willing to take preventative initiative.

its stupid because it will have no effect on crime, stamping the casing will not help identify a shooter except in circumstances where you could already identify the shooter. Its pointless legislation, thus stupid.

we really just need universal background checks and maybe a national registry. Seriously if your going to follow a countries example use Switzerland or Canada.

Actually, I think we should adopt the mandatory military training from the Swiss to all American citizens if they wish to own a gun. That's probably the most I am willing to compromise.

You mean the law they don't enforce?

Look most firearms used in homicides are white market sales or gray market sakes (aka private sales with no background check), black market sales are rare about as common as stolen firearms. mandatory background checks will impact gray and black market sales as will registration. the leading source of black market firearms start as white market purchases and pass down a chain of gray market purchases into the black market, so if you interrupt gray market purchases or make them trackable you not only make it harder for criminals to 'Legally" * buy firearms but also make it harder for firearms to reach the black market. Registration make it harder for white market purchases to reach the black market because the police can say "Hey the last 6 firearms Bob purchased were used in homicides and Bob never reported any of them as stolen, maybe we should investigate Bob for connections to the black market."

*as in privates sales, in which "Are you a criminal, No, Your word is good enough for me, here's your gun" is legal.


http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF

[Sociobiology]

And yet, the statistics still supports my claims that gun control is effective. Funny how none of the murders committed listed in the stats after the ban weren't committed by guns... Hmm I wonder why. The number of deaths before the ban is higher than the ones that came after it. Sorry, try again.

Each one of those murders not committed with guns could have been defended against WITH guns.

because guns stops explosives, fire, and poison.

[Steamtopia]

Each one of those murders not committed with guns could have been defended against WITH guns.

because guns stops explosives, fire, and poison.

Guns stop cancer.

[Spongebobithianopolis]

guns stop cancer

this guy is making more sense than any of yall

[Checheyna]

I am a huge believer in the right to bare arms as I go shooting often, I personally, and I am surely not the only one, who thinks that many laws on gun control should be repealed instead of changing the 2nd Amendment, such as the $200 tax if you gun barrel is shorter than 16 inches, and if you do not pay the tax, you will be sent to prison for 10 years and fined $250,000, I find that a stupid law. Is there anyone else out there who thinks so?

And yes I know this was originally meant to be a way to get revenue for the government on the making and selling of firearms, but it has turned in to a way to be arrested for $200 if you are not familiar

[Spirit of Hope]

Triumph, Homicides Fall Despite Soaring Gun Violence

Interesting, now I will have to see if I can dig up some numbers on historical firearm injuries to see what that shows.

Well I found an interesting Pew Research Center study on gun violence.

Chapter Three has this great quote:

In 2009, 2010 and 2011, the rate of non-fatal firearm crime appeared to rise, compared with the prior year, but the changes are not statistically significant.

A Bureau of Justice Statistics study said almost the exact same thing about the increase in violent crimes from 2011 to 2012.

I find it interesting that the rise began in 2009, it makes me wonder if the rise is connected with the economic decline. If it is then it may drop as the US economy continues to recover.

Another interesting fact is that the rate of injuries for the age group 18-24 saw a sharp decline over this period, while the other age groups all saw slight increases. I don't know what this means but it is interesting.

Even more interesting is that from 1993-2000 the death rate dropped 45%, while violent crime with a gun dropped 63%. I find this interesting because one would think that with medical advances the death rate would drop faster than the violent crime rate.

[Kernen]

I am a huge believer in the right to bare arms as I go shooting often

Shooting in T-shirts and tanktops, clearly.

[Big Jim P]

Interesting, now I will have to see if I can dig up some numbers on historical firearm injuries to see what that shows.

Well I found an interesting Pew Research Center study on gun violence.

Chapter Three has this great quote:

In 2009, 2010 and 2011, the rate of non-fatal firearm crime appeared to rise, compared with the prior year, but the changes are not statistically significant.

A Bureau of Justice Statistics study said almost the exact same thing about the increase in violent crimes from 2011 to 2012.

I find it interesting that the rise began in 2009, it makes me wonder if the rise is connected with the economic decline. If it is then it may drop as the US economy continues to recover.

Another interesting fact is that the rate of injuries for the age group 18-24 saw a sharp decline over this period, while the other age groups all saw slight increases. I don't know what this means but it is interesting.

Even more interesting is that from 1993-2000 the death rate dropped 45%, while violent crime with a gun dropped 63%. I find this interesting because one would think that with medical advances the death rate would drop faster than the violent crime rate.

Even though gun crime is down, people still mistakenly believe that it is worse. No doubt to the medias "if it bleeds, it leads" standard and their over-hyping of any crime remotely associated with guns.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/07/gun-crime-drops-but-americans-think-its-worse/2139421/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/05/14/disarming-realities-as-gun-sales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/

[Sevvania]

II personally, and I am surely not the only one, who thinks that many laws on gun control should be repealed instead of changing the 2nd Amendment, such as the $200 tax if you gun barrel is shorter than 16 inches, and if you do not pay the tax, you will be sent to prison for 10 years and fined $250,000, I find that a stupid law. Is there anyone else out there who thinks so?

Guns that are easily concealed are the ones most likely to be used in a crime. It's also generally easier to get a rifle or shotgun than a handgun. The regulation on short-barreled rifles/shotguns is an effort to prevent people from getting their hands on a weapon that can be more easily concealed than its full-length counterpart.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

Even though gun crime is down, people still mistakenly believe that it is worse. No doubt to the medias "if it bleeds, it leads" standard and their over-hyping of any crime remotely associated with guns.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/07/gun-crime-drops-but-americans-think-its-worse/2139421/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/05/14/disarming-realities-as-gun-sales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/

I don't think media hype alone accounts for the fears. You also have a rise and widespread of mass shootings even though gun crimes are dropping.
http://mic.com/articles/64057/why-are-m ... decreasing

[Big Jim P]

Even though gun crime is down, people still mistakenly believe that it is worse. No doubt to the medias "if it bleeds, it leads" standard and their over-hyping of any crime remotely associated with guns.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/07/gun-crime-drops-but-americans-think-its-worse/2139421/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/05/14/disarming-realities-as-gun-sales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/

I don't think media hype alone accounts for the fears. You also have a rise and widespread of mass shootings even though gun crimes are dropping.
http://mic.com/articles/64057/why-are-m ... decreasing

Too bad they are not only uncommon, they are not widespread nor increasing.

http://www.boston.com/community/blogs/c ... tings.html

[Edward Richtofen]

The only way I see a BoR amendment being repealed if it has massive support in congress, a unanimous decision in the Supreme Court and Presidential approval

[Big Jim P]

The only way I see a BoR amendment being repealed if it has massive support in congress, a unanimous decision in the Supreme Court and Presidential approval

Plus being ratified of 3/4th of the states. Not going to happen. That is why the GCFs continue to go about it piecemeal. Thankfully, the current trend is towards expanding gun rights.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

Too bad they are not only uncommon, they are not widespread nor increasing.

http://www.boston.com/community/blogs/c ... tings.html

Nope, try again. Mass shootings are becoming common and are increasing. They trippled since 2011.

[Kernen]

Too bad they are not only uncommon, they are not widespread nor increasing.

http://www.boston.com/community/blogs/c ... tings.html

Nope, try again. Mass shootings are becoming common and are increasing. They trippled since 2011.

Wanna hunt down a less biased source there, bud?

[United Prefectures of Appia]

Nope, try again. Mass shootings are becoming common and are increasing. They trippled since 2011.

Wanna hunt down a less biased source there, bud?

Sorry, but Big Jim P was in the front of the line first.

[Sevvania]

Nope, try again. Mass shootings are becoming common and are increasing. They trippled since 2011.

Wanna hunt down a less biased source there, bud?

I could believe that mass shootings have been on the rise, but considering gun homicides as a whole are on the decline, it seems like a matter of, "A hundred people dying in seperate instances is a statistic, but ten people dying in one event is a tragedy".

And don't get me wrong, it is a tragedy, but overall, it's still only a fraction of the number of people killed by other means (and only about twice as high as the average number of people killed by lightning each year).