Should School Attendance be Compulsory?

[Internationalist Bastard]

What why I'm so lewd?

Yes...

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I love my nan, she was even supportive of my sexuality, but she was still a prude

[Bressen]

You can't evade VAT/consumption tax. It's calculated onto a product before you voluntarily purchase it.

I don't need to justify the disparity; there's nothing wrong with some people having more money than others.

1. I never claimed it was. My point was that the tax burden under this system hits the poor the hardest. Do you think that is fair?

All you're demonstrating is that the UK government is an effective and sly beast when it comes to getting money; they're extorting you via income tax with no way for you to not pay it. However, income tax generally isn't conducted in the way that the UK does it, and my example of the threat of being thrown in a cage applies to America, as you so kindly explained their tax system is different from the UKs.

2. And yet, your system is, by the same metric, "an effective and sly beast when it comes to getting money; they're extorting you via income sales tax with no way for you to not pay it."

1. See my other post that mentions potential VAT reductions for those below a certain income bracket.
2. You can always just not buy products to avoid paying the tax, or just buy certain cheap products, or buy products at a particular volume and frequency. It's a voluntary system that doesn't see your wealth massively slashed unlike income taxes.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Hover parents?

Not exactly. My mom had a terrible time at school when she was young and foisted her fears on to us. I literally had to beg to go out to school, because I wanted to be with all my friends. Interestingly enough only one or two of my siblings would consider homeschooling their kids. The rest have said no fucking way

Jeez, couldn't imagine

[San Lumen]

So your logic is basically "Fuck the poor. Fuck anyone who doesn't have shittons of money. I want y'all to be hit the hardest by taxes while the rich just get off easy".

Not really. It'd be quite feasible to have a welfare system that operates on removing VAT from goods if you're household is below a certain income level. Just have a card that you scan and the VAT you would be paying is given back to you in cash or credit.

Or the poor people could just live within their means and buy cheaper goods. Being honest, all they really need to buy is cheap food and clothing to get by, and the tax of 20% on a 35p tin of beans is only gonna up the price by a marginal 7p.

Oh so now we've reached people should live within their means? Getting the best education should depend on how wealthy you are.

[Thermodolia]

Yes...

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I love my nan, she was even supportive of my sexuality, but she was still a prude

My Catholic friends have said that Catholics girls are the best in bed

[Diopolis]

Both of these posts betray a lack of knowledge about how homeschooling actually works. Yes, most homeschooled kids are a little eccentric, but that's not from lack of social interaction- given who chooses to homeschool(religious fanatics and bohemians are not known for their normality), the kids would be like that anyway.
And most homeschooling parents don't insist on teaching every subject themselves. Some run cooperative ventures where the kids go to one day a week for instruction and get the rest as homework. Others swap kids for the day- if Mrs. Smith is good at math, and Mrs. Jones speaks Spanish, why shouldn't they cooperate and get a day off out of the deal? Other, wealthier homeschoolers just hire professional tutors to ensure the necessary instruction is given.

Yet none of them actually ask the kids if they want it, they just go with it

Yes, children don't generally make their own educational decisions. How profound an insight.

[San Lumen]

Both of these posts betray a lack of knowledge about how homeschooling actually works. Yes, most homeschooled kids are a little eccentric, but that's not from lack of social interaction- given who chooses to homeschool(religious fanatics and bohemians are not known for their normality), the kids would be like that anyway.
And most homeschooling parents don't insist on teaching every subject themselves. Some run cooperative ventures where the kids go to one day a week for instruction and get the rest as homework. Others swap kids for the day- if Mrs. Smith is good at math, and Mrs. Jones speaks Spanish, why shouldn't they cooperate and get a day off out of the deal? Other, wealthier homeschoolers just hire professional tutors to ensure the necessary instruction is given.

Yet none of them actually ask the kids if they want it, they just go with it

someone under the age of 18 cannot legally decide for themselves.

[Bressen]

Not really. It'd be quite feasible to have a welfare system that operates on removing VAT from goods if you're household is below a certain income level. Just have a card that you scan and the VAT you would be paying is given back to you in cash or credit.

Or the poor people could just live within their means and buy cheaper goods. Being honest, all they really need to buy is cheap food and clothing to get by, and the tax of 20% on a 35p tin of beans is only gonna up the price by a marginal 7p.

Oh so now we've reached people should live within their means? Getting the best education should depend on how wealthy you are.

I didn't say that, but okay.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I love my nan, she was even supportive of my sexuality, but she was still a prude

My Catholic friends have said that Catholics girls are the best in bed

Oh yes we are

[Thermodolia]

Not exactly. My mom had a terrible time at school when she was young and foisted her fears on to us. I literally had to beg to go out to school, because I wanted to be with all my friends. Interestingly enough only one or two of my siblings would consider homeschooling their kids. The rest have said no fucking way

Jeez, couldn't imagine

Oh ya. Now ya know why I'm so adamant against homeschooling. Didn't help that my father was a bit of an asshole and for several nights I'd go to bed scared for my life.

Ya I might have had the dark side of homeschooling. Basically my family looked pristine on the outside but on the inside it was rotten to the core.

[Imperializt Russia]

So your logic is basically "Fuck the poor. Fuck anyone who doesn't have shittons of money. I want y'all to be hit the hardest by taxes while the rich just get off easy".

Not really. It'd be quite feasible to have a welfare system that operates on removing VAT from goods if you're household is below a certain income level. Just have a card that you scan and the VAT you would be paying is given back to you in cash or credit.

Or the poor people could just live within their means and buy cheaper goods. Being honest, all they really need to buy is cheap food and clothing to get by, and the tax of 20% on a 35p tin of beans is only gonna up the price by a marginal 7p.

Fuck.

No.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Jeez, couldn't imagine

Oh ya. Now ya know why I'm so adamant against homeschooling. Didn't help that my father was a bit of an asshole and for several nights I'd go to bed scared for my life.

Ya I might have had the dark side of homeschooling. Basically my family looked pristine on the outside but on the inside it was rotten to the core.

[Thermodolia]

Yet none of them actually ask the kids if they want it, they just go with it

someone under the age of 18 cannot legally decide for themselves.

Ya but most kids don't exactly like being homeschooled.

[Imperializt Russia]

1. I never claimed it was. My point was that the tax burden under this system hits the poor the hardest. Do you think that is fair?
2. And yet, your system is, by the same metric, "an effective and sly beast when it comes to getting money; they're extorting you via income sales tax with no way for you to not pay it."

1. See my other post that mentions potential VAT reductions for those below a certain income bracket.
2. You can always just not buy products to avoid paying the tax, or just buy certain cheap products, or buy products at a particular volume and frequency. It's a voluntary system that doesn't see your wealth massively slashed unlike income taxes.

Anyone who has an income significant enough to reasonably be termed "wealth" really isn't hurt by income taxes, face it.

[Internationalist Bastard]

So your logic is basically "Fuck the poor. Fuck anyone who doesn't have shittons of money. I want y'all to be hit the hardest by taxes while the rich just get off easy".

Not really. It'd be quite feasible to have a welfare system that operates on removing VAT from goods if you're household is below a certain income level. Just have a card that you scan and the VAT you would be paying is given back to you in cash or credit.

Or the poor people could just live within their means and buy cheaper goods. Being honest, all they really need to buy is cheap food and clothing to get by, and the tax of 20% on a 35p tin of beans is only gonna up the price by a marginal 7p.

Yeah you try doing it for a month then get back to me

[Thermodolia]

Yet none of them actually ask the kids if they want it, they just go with it

Yes, children don't generally make their own educational decisions. How profound an insight.

If I could do it over again I'd love have gone to the local public school, instead of being stunted at home by my parents. Specifically by my mother who insisted that I was just like her in every way.

[San Lumen]

someone under the age of 18 cannot legally decide for themselves.

Ya but most kids don't exactly like being homeschooled.

Ive heard stories about homeschooling in places like rural Missouri and some of the stuff they are taught and believe me its not pretty.

[Thermodolia]

Oh ya. Now ya know why I'm so adamant against homeschooling. Didn't help that my father was a bit of an asshole and for several nights I'd go to bed scared for my life.

Ya I might have had the dark side of homeschooling. Basically my family looked pristine on the outside but on the inside it was rotten to the core.

Thanks.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Thanks.

No prob

[Saiwania]

There is no choice but to ensure all children are going to school until they graduate K-12. We don't want them to become bums now, do we? Besides, kids skipping school keeps truant officers employed.

[Bressen]

Not really. It'd be quite feasible to have a welfare system that operates on removing VAT from goods if you're household is below a certain income level. Just have a card that you scan and the VAT you would be paying is given back to you in cash or credit.

Or the poor people could just live within their means and buy cheaper goods. Being honest, all they really need to buy is cheap food and clothing to get by, and the tax of 20% on a 35p tin of beans is only gonna up the price by a marginal 7p.

Fuck.

No.

Robust.

1. See my other post that mentions potential VAT reductions for those below a certain income bracket.
2. You can always just not buy products to avoid paying the tax, or just buy certain cheap products, or buy products at a particular volume and frequency. It's a voluntary system that doesn't see your wealth massively slashed unlike income taxes.

Anyone who has an income significant enough to reasonably be termed "wealth" really isn't hurt by income taxes, face it.

It's not about whether or not they're hurt by income tax, it's the fact that income tax itself is extortion. However, compared to a consumption tax, you'd be paying far less than your income taxes AND the rich would still be paying a sizable chunk when they spend millions on their luxury yachts and resorts AND that's good because they're VOLUNTARILY purchasing those luxury yachts and resorts.

Not really. It'd be quite feasible to have a welfare system that operates on removing VAT from goods if you're household is below a certain income level. Just have a card that you scan and the VAT you would be paying is given back to you in cash or credit.

Or the poor people could just live within their means and buy cheaper goods. Being honest, all they really need to buy is cheap food and clothing to get by, and the tax of 20% on a 35p tin of beans is only gonna up the price by a marginal 7p.

Yeah you try doing it for a month then get back to me

Sure, Lidl value beans aren't that different from ASDA beans, only in the sense that the former costs 20-30p and the latter costs 60-90p.

[Calladan]

so what would pay for it?

VAT/consumption tax is pretty nice. Any method of taxation that doesn't result in people being extorted/threatened with being thrown into a cage is fine by me.

VAT is incredibly regressive, hurts the poor far more than the rich and - by the by - if you fail to pay it (when you are self-employed) you go to jail pretty damn quickly. And it is a lot easier to forget to pay it than it is to forget to pay normal taxes because (from what I understand) it's so fucking complicated to register, claim and organise.

VAT is evil. Its only saving grace is that it is not charged on books. And basic food (more or less).

Homeschooled will most likely keep them from gaining any real social interaction.

Did nobody else heavily socialize as a kid outside of school?

Mostly with kids I met in school. Or church. Or music school (but that was mostly an extension of school).

1. No, I just said that the government doesn't need to exist for roads to exist.

Except the would only go where the rich people wanted them. With a government then they go where everyone wants them. And they are funded by the people who use them - the drivers of the cars that use the roads. Which seems fair enough to me.

And on a more general point, which has very little to do with education being compulsory, but everything to do with why I am happy to pay taxes now that I have a job where I am required to pay them (and wow that was a very badly written sentence, so apologies!) :-

I was born with a congenital heart defect. So, throughout my life I have needed doctors to look after me. In this country we are blessed with a National Health Service - one that is free at the point of use, but that is funded via the tax-payers. For the first 18 years of my life, I didn't fund it, because I didn't have a job. But I still needed the NHS, because I was very sick and had one open heart surgery and two minor operations.

However since I was 18 I have paid varying amounts into the tax system, up until now where I pay what I consider to be a reasonable amount since I have a good job. But I have still needed the NHS because I am still sick and have had two open heart surgeries and more minor surgeries than you can shake a stick at.

So it is in my best interest to continue paying taxes, because it funds the NHS.

How does that benefit you? Or anyone else? Well - tomorrow you get could get hit by a car. Or a bus. Or a truck. Or - well, you get the idea. You could get sick, and need the NHS as much as I do. Because even if you are richer than Midas, the initial care you get will be the NHS. So it is in your best interest it remains funded and operating, because THEY will be the ones saving your life. And if you aren't rich - if you can't avoid private medicine and private healthcare - you will need them for a lot more.

THIS is what we pay taxes for. Not because the government extorts us for, but because it is what we have to do to maintain a civilised society. And if you can't understand something that simple - that we pay taxes so the water comes out of our taps clear, so that the air we breathe doesn't kill us, so that the roads are flat, the police, fire brigade, the NHS and all the other basic stuff in life we need to maintain our society continues to work - then god I don't even want to talk to you.

[Thermodolia]

Ya but most kids don't exactly like being homeschooled.

Ive heard stories about homeschooling in places like rural Missouri and some of the stuff they are taught and believe me its not pretty.

I've lived it. You're right it's not pretty. I also lived my a mother who would put each kid into a metaphorical box if you will, my sister was the social butterfly, my brother was the physical one, I was the smart one. I didn't want to be the smart one I wanted to be the social butterfly but no that's not what I was according to my mom. It took me years to finally undo all of that and let loose

[Diopolis]

Ive heard stories about homeschooling in places like rural Missouri and some of the stuff they are taught and believe me its not pretty.

I've lived it. You're right it's not pretty. I also lived my a mother who would put each kid into a metaphorical box if you will, my sister was the social butterfly, my brother was the physical one, I was the smart one. I didn't want to be the smart one I wanted to be the social butterfly but no that's not what I was according to my mom. It took me years to finally undo all of that and let loose

So your parents were insane and this discredits homeschooling? You do realize public schools are not exactly mythical places of sweetness and light, correct?

[Saikaya]

Yes, of course. Provided a curriculum change is in order.