Bill Maher blames gaming, beards and bad attire for "incels"

[Esternial]

Perhaps it is true that incels more often than not have beards, bad attire and play videogames. I'm already skeptical on the usefulness of those three indicators to "identify" an incel. Incels more likely that not have ten fingers and ten toes, but I wouldn't find that meaningful data to base a conclusion on, either.

From my perspective some big contributing factors, unlike those mentioned by Bill, are certain toxic personality traits. Combine that with the current state of our society and you have people that fit the stereotypical image of an incel.

That said, hearing some of the shit older generations say about their significant others, I'm very much convinced that previous generations were just as likely to have a sizeable and publicly visible "incel" community. It's just today that the turd is floating to the surface, but it's been in the sociocultural toilet bowl for a long long time.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Is "conservative" even definable though?

How can conservatives be real if our eyes aren't real?

If you want to argue it's definable, you define it.

[Ifreann]

How can conservatives be real if our eyes aren't real?

If you want to argue it's definable, you define it.

Why? You're clearly familiar with the definition. You reference it in that post. Stop trying to veer off into navel gazing bullshit about the meaning of words you obviously understand. If you want to defend your belief that Maher is some independent thinker then do that.

[Saiwania]

I don't care too much if flirting works assuming that is true. I'm still all in on people abandoning it because of the possibility of it being considered sexual harassment in the era of "me too." It is an exercise in recklessness in my view thats best avoided. If you don't have game, a more accessible solution is to learn to "let go" of any desires for such things than to try to learn game if that isn't your element. My interpretation is that strong emotional attachments can lead to a darker side/path more than just metaphorically.

[Sky Reavers]

Video Games: This is just a pastime, besides, there are some girls, who also share this interest.

Beards: Some girls might not like them bearded dudes, but some do, cause they feel, that beards are pretty manly. If it fits.

Bad Attre: This is pretty subjective and mostly depends on person's taste. Find and ask two girls about that, and get three different opinions. What is bad attire anyway?

Either way, bad manners, lack of tact and entitlement to girls mindset are far more likely to make one incel. I belive, if one carries himself with tact and behaves in a confident and yet a civilized manner without excesses, girls are more likely to overlook some small flaws.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

If you want to argue it's definable, you define it.

Why? You're clearly familiar with the definition. You reference it in that post. Stop trying to veer off into navel gazing bullshit about the meaning of words you obviously understand. If you want to defend your belief that Maher is some independent thinker then do that.

It's pretty obvious. He dissents from conservatism on Trump; in his argument with Kevin O' Leary from the same episode he dissents from conservatism on economics; he aligned with the left in condemning Facebook; if his worldview were rooted in "traditional" thinking I don't think he'd have done such things. There's also his support for the Democrats in the past few Presidential elections...

[Reorganized Tryphalia]

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has about incels?

It's been four posts since this was quoted so it needs to be quoted again.


Also, the problem with incels is entitlement. Lots of people go through periods where they struggle to get laid, incels feel like they're entitled to get laid. Usually by women who are way more attractive than they are and usually without doing basic things like looking after their own personal hygiene or making sure that their personality is, you know, remotely interesting.

A bit like certain women who constantly chase more attractive men while ignoring average men and then whining when said men don’t commit or even reciprocate their interest. Entitlement goes both ways and men don’t owe women sex, money, or marriage, either.

[Esternial]

Why? You're clearly familiar with the definition. You reference it in that post. Stop trying to veer off into navel gazing bullshit about the meaning of words you obviously understand. If you want to defend your belief that Maher is some independent thinker then do that.

It's pretty obvious. He dissents from conservatism on Trump; in his argument with Kevin O' Leary from the same episode he dissents from conservatism on economics; he aligned with the left in condemning Facebook; if his worldview were rooted in "traditional" thinking I don't think he'd have done such things. There's also his support for the Democrats in the past few Presidential elections...

Nobody is always an "independent-thinker" on every single subject...

[GuessTheAltAccount]

It's been four posts since this was quoted so it needs to be quoted again.


Also, the problem with incels is entitlement. Lots of people go through periods where they struggle to get laid, incels feel like they're entitled to get laid. Usually by women who are way more attractive than they are and usually without doing basic things like looking after their own personal hygiene or making sure that their personality is, you know, remotely interesting.

A bit like certain women who constantly chase more attractive men while ignoring average men and then whining when said men don’t commit or even reciprocate their interest. Entitlement goes both ways and men don’t owe women sex, money, or marriage, either.

It's also worth noting that if she manages to seduce him into sex, she can make him owe 18 years' worth of child support money (there's no "she said she'd abort" exception), even if he can't afford it and it'd drive him into poverty with her, if he refuses to be hers and only hers. I'm not sure there's really any gender-flipped "equivalent" of that. (Nor should there be, just so I'm clear on this.)

[Saiwania]

A bit like certain women who constantly chase more attractive men while ignoring average men and then whining when said men don’t commit or even reciprocate their interest. Entitlement goes both ways and men don’t owe women sex, money, or marriage, either.

The attractive men have their pick of who they want for the most part, because they're at a higher level than other people figuratively speaking. People are impressed by their accomplishments/status and want to associate with them to perhaps get some access to it. It can be more than just looking good, such as if a man earns a lot of money or has excellent "game" socially.

[Esternial]

A bit like certain women who constantly chase more attractive men while ignoring average men and then whining when said men don’t commit or even reciprocate their interest. Entitlement goes both ways and men don’t owe women sex, money, or marriage, either.

It's also worth noting that if she manages to seduce him into sex, she can make him owe 18 years' worth of child support money (there's no "she said she'd abort" exception), even if he can't afford it and it'd drive him into poverty with her, if he refuses to be hers and only hers. I'm not sure there's really any gender-flipped "equivalent" of that. (Nor should there be, just so I'm clear on this.)

Two good examples of the things incels laser-focus on to justify they hatred for women.

Folks that focus on the bad people among the opposite sex (or rather, humanity as a whole) are likely to end up bitter and jaded. It's like me fuming for an hour after someone cut me off in traffic and being unable to appreciate the fact someone wished me a nice day at the office. You're only fucking over yourself and people that actually matter.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

It's pretty obvious. He dissents from conservatism on Trump; in his argument with Kevin O' Leary from the same episode he dissents from conservatism on economics; he aligned with the left in condemning Facebook; if his worldview were rooted in "traditional" thinking I don't think he'd have done such things. There's also his support for the Democrats in the past few Presidential elections...

Nobody is always an "independent-thinker" on every single subject...

Yes, it's possible some people just throw some left-wing ideas and right-wing ideas in the blender together and mix them until they get mistaken for independent thinkers.

However, a chance of independent thought is much better than a guarantee of ideological conformity.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

It's also worth noting that if she manages to seduce him into sex, she can make him owe 18 years' worth of child support money (there's no "she said she'd abort" exception), even if he can't afford it and it'd drive him into poverty with her, if he refuses to be hers and only hers. I'm not sure there's really any gender-flipped "equivalent" of that. (Nor should there be, just so I'm clear on this.)

Two good examples of the things incels laser-focus on to justify they hatred for women.

Folks that focus on the bad people among the opposite sex (or rather, humanity as a whole) are likely to end up bitter and jaded. It's like me fuming for an hour after someone cut me off in traffic and being unable to appreciate the fact someone wished me a nice day at the office. You're only fucking over yourself and people that actually matter.

Being "baby-trapped" is less akin to being cut off in traffic and more akin to being run over in traffic and crippled until you're stuck in the poor house.

Except that the law provides some deterrents against running people over (inadequate ones, but better than nothing) and none against the baby trap.

[Ifreann]

Why? You're clearly familiar with the definition. You reference it in that post. Stop trying to veer off into navel gazing bullshit about the meaning of words you obviously understand. If you want to defend your belief that Maher is some independent thinker then do that.

It's pretty obvious. He dissents from conservatism on Trump; in his argument with Kevin O' Leary from the same episode he dissents from conservatism on economics; he aligned with the left in condemning Facebook; if his worldview were rooted in "traditional" thinking I don't think he'd have done such things.

Why not? Lots of conservatives don't support Trump and condemn Facebook, and it's pretty conservative to sneer at people choosing new work-from-home arrangements over the traditional cubicle farm.

There's also his support for the Democrats in the past few Presidential elections...

Because the Democrats are also largely conservative.

[Esternial]

Two good examples of the things incels laser-focus on to justify they hatred for women.

Folks that focus on the bad people among the opposite sex (or rather, humanity as a whole) are likely to end up bitter and jaded. It's like me fuming for an hour after someone cut me off in traffic and being unable to appreciate the fact someone wished me a nice day at the office. You're only fucking over yourself and people that actually matter.

Being "baby-trapped" is less akin to being cut off in traffic and more akin to being run over in traffic and crippled until you're stuck in the poor house.

Except that the law provides some deterrents against running people over (inadequate ones, but better than nothing) and none against the baby trap.

If you actually got "baby-trapped" (hit by a car) you're totally entitled to be pissed, but you didn't (cut off).

...do you see my point?

[Saiwania]

Except that the law provides some deterrents against running people over (inadequate ones, but better than nothing) and none against the baby trap.

If it takes two to tango, the guy accepted the risk of having a child in sleeping with a woman in that way.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Being "baby-trapped" is less akin to being cut off in traffic and more akin to being run over in traffic and crippled until you're stuck in the poor house.

Except that the law provides some deterrents against running people over (inadequate ones, but better than nothing) and none against the baby trap.

If you actually got "baby-trapped" (hit by a car) you're totally entitled to be pissed, but you didn't (cut off).

...do you see my point?

Like, it was a risk either way, but in my teen years it would've been an unacceptable risk, now a little less so.

But it still could've happened to me. If let's say before I knew how child support law works I stopped being so stubborn about getting with my crushes and went for a girl I thought was flirting with me. It could've ended with a happily ever after. It also could've ended with 18 years of poverty. The law has no safeguards against this sort of thing, yet anyone risk-averse enough to think about this then has to compete with those with sexual performance dating back to their teen years even when they CAN afford the risks.

[Kerwa]

It's also worth noting that if she manages to seduce him into sex, she can make him owe 18 years' worth of child support money (there's no "she said she'd abort" exception), even if he can't afford it and it'd drive him into poverty with her, if he refuses to be hers and only hers. I'm not sure there's really any gender-flipped "equivalent" of that. (Nor should there be, just so I'm clear on this.)

That’s just paranoid. It’s like people who won’t get in cars because “it might crash and kill me”. Sure it could happen, but it’s not something to worry about really.

[Thermodolia]

Exactly who cares what some old idiot with a TV show thinks?

[GuessTheAltAccount]

It's also worth noting that if she manages to seduce him into sex, she can make him owe 18 years' worth of child support money (there's no "she said she'd abort" exception), even if he can't afford it and it'd drive him into poverty with her, if he refuses to be hers and only hers. I'm not sure there's really any gender-flipped "equivalent" of that. (Nor should there be, just so I'm clear on this.)

That’s just paranoid. It’s like people who won’t get in cars because “it might crash and kill me”. Sure it could happen, but it’s not something to worry about really.

Except we do have an option for such people; public transit. Which significantly reduces the lethality of crashes when they do happen.

As well, there is also the option of a lawsuit if it's bad enough to maim you when it doesn't kill you. I've yet to hear of a "she didn't warn me she'd keep the baby" lawsuit.

[Kerwa]

Except we do have an option for such people; public transit. Which significantly reduces the lethality of crashes when they do happen.

As well, there is also the option of a lawsuit if it's bad enough to maim you when it doesn't kill you. I've yet to hear of a "she didn't warn me she'd keep the baby" lawsuit.

Prostitutes. They don’t baby trap.

And swap cars for planes then. There’s no alternative to flying usually.

Edit: and to be clear the point I am making is misjudging risk and letting it ruin you life.

[Sundiata]

Incels? Come on.

Groom yourself, get some exercise, find a job, serve the public: go down to the soup kitchen and pick up a ladle. You'll meet women, some will like you, marry one.

Because this is a mostly male phenomenon, a lot of young men in our time are too self-interested. There's a world outside of where you live and you're only going to make it better if you get up and do something about it.

Bill Maher isn't wrong that a lot of these guys aren't putting in the work to find a wife if that's what they're really looking for.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Prostitutes. They don’t baby trap.

Firstly, hiring a hooker is against the law.

Secondly, I'm not sure paying for sex means she isn't owed child support money.

Thirdly, I'd rather find someone who's more interested in my looks than in my money if possible.

[Sundiata]

Firstly, hiring a hooker is against the law.

Not everywhere in the United States unfortunately.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Firstly, hiring a hooker is against the law.

Not everywhere in the United States unfortunately.

Not just in the United States, you know.

I can agree to disagree on whether or not it should be (most recent prostitution thread "should brothels exist" should be to your interest) but here please let's just focus on what applies within the law, as it stands, to much of the US and to many other countries.