Is Compulsory Military Service Fascism?

[Fan-T Pashtunistan]

If your objection is to killing people, why would you object to be trained in another role (such as askeri sağlık görevlisi/combat MEDIC) or even similarly challenging civilian tasks such as firefighter (itfaiyeci)?

In the same manner, he might not be interested in any of these either. If he has 0 interest, best believe that he also doesn't have the skills or talents to succeed in those endeavours. So, the mandatory duty will cause people to perform way below their potential. 10% efficiency at best and crazy amounts of money and taxes literally being wasted on wrong individuals.

What if we had allocated those positions for people who have genuine interests, talents and passions? We will have the world's best firefighters and combat medics.

Maybe you're right but I morally find the kind of "poor me" attitude he expresses somewhat reprehensible.

[EGEMEN]

If your objection is to killing people, why would you object to be trained in another role (such as askeri sağlık görevlisi/combat MEDIC) or even similarly challenging civilian tasks such as firefighter (itfaiyeci)?

In the same manner, he might not be interested in any of these either. If he has 0 interest, best believe that he also doesn't have the skills or talents to succeed in those endeavours. So, the mandatory duty will cause people to perform way below their potential. 10% efficiency at best and crazy amounts of money and taxes literally being wasted on the wrong individuals.

What if we had allocated those positions for people who have genuine interests, talents and passions? We would have the world's best firefighters and combat medics.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Are Finland and Switzerland Fascist? Both of these nations, including others, use a year of mandatory conscription.

They might not be fascists overall but this policy is downright fascist.

If you say so....

Lol

[Sarkington]

A component of fascism, absolutely.
A symptom of fascism, sure.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

…yes?

Hence why the treatment was soo bad, the experience is slightly different depending on which nation your serving in.

his problem wasn’t (just) the treatment, it was also the concept of being forced to serve.

[Christian Confederation]

Some sort of national service should be required be it Police, National Gaurd, Military, National Park Ranger, Game Warden, Construction, Etc. There's nothing wrong with requiring Able bodied citizens to protect their nation. We have an all Volunteer Force in the US but conscription is still on the books. Every man 18- 25 has to register for the draft before they can vote. It's a little hypocritical that we have to sign up for the possibility of Military service before we can vote and weman are just allowed to vote but that's for another time. Point being Service Guarantees citizenship is fine by me.

[Ifreann]

Some sort of national service should be required be it Police, National Gaurd, Military, National Park Ranger, Game Warden, Construction, Etc. There's nothing wrong with requiring Able bodied citizens to protect their nation. We have an all Volunteer Force in the US but conscription is still on the books. Every man 18- 25 has to register for the draft before they can vote. It's a little hypocritical that we have to sign up for the possibility of Military service before we can vote and weman are just allowed to vote but that's for another time. Point being Service Guarantees citizenship is fine by me.

Your point is that fascism is fine by you?

[Inner Albania]

A component of fascism, absolutely.
A symptom of fascism, sure.

While compulsory military service may be a component of fascism, it is also equally a component of socialism.

[Osmauri]

It's definitely militaristic.
Something tells me that conscription doesn't exactly entail putting on a black shirt, though. I'll say no.

[Ifreann]

It's definitely militaristic.
Something tells me that conscription doesn't exactly entail putting on a black shirt, though. I'll say no.

The colour of the shirt required varies, but I wouldn't think that black is common.

[Oshiri Tantei]

Sadly, there are people in power, who can't make love due to the age or something, which is why they make war. Still, I belive, that volunteer force is better than conscript one, expecially in the age, where quantity becomes less important than it was during the old age. Volunteers are just more inclined than some random dude dragged from the streets, to have qualities, that are must have for a soldier.

This is just all kinds of wrong. There are no special qualities a soldier must have, that an average 20 something person does not have. If implemented correctly, with quality training, a conscript army can be just as effective as a professional one. Depending on the size of the pool of possible recruits mandatory military service might be the only realistic option to construct a believable defence force. If the military works purely on a meritocratic basis, as it ideally should, it also gets rid of the whole sending the poor to fight pointless wars as everyone is as likely to get sent. Also, while some have argued that mandatory service will make the society more likely to turn fascist, because every military ever brainwashes their soldiers into brainless nazis, I think it is the opposite. Mandatory military service makes voters much more interested in any foreign interventions on a personal level then a professional army would, because your own safety is on the line.

[Raskana]

No, but i would not last 10 seconds in the military.

[Ifreann]

Sadly, there are people in power, who can't make love due to the age or something, which is why they make war. Still, I belive, that volunteer force is better than conscript one, expecially in the age, where quantity becomes less important than it was during the old age. Volunteers are just more inclined than some random dude dragged from the streets, to have qualities, that are must have for a soldier.

This is just all kinds of wrong. There are no special qualities a soldier must have, that an average 20 something person does not have. If implemented correctly, with quality training, a conscript army can be just as effective as a professional one. Depending on the size of the pool of possible recruits mandatory military service might be the only realistic option to construct a believable defence force. If the military works purely on a meritocratic basis, as it ideally should, it also gets rid of the whole sending the poor to fight pointless wars as everyone is as likely to get sent. Also, while some have argued that mandatory service will make the society more likely to turn fascist, because every military ever brainwashes their soldiers into brainless nazis, I think it is the opposite. Mandatory military service makes voters much more interested in any foreign interventions on a personal level then a professional army would, because your own safety is on the line.

America's wars in the Middle East were opposed by enormous anti-war protests. People were plenty interested in stopping those wars without their own lives being on the line.

[Oshiri Tantei]

This is just all kinds of wrong. There are no special qualities a soldier must have, that an average 20 something person does not have. If implemented correctly, with quality training, a conscript army can be just as effective as a professional one. Depending on the size of the pool of possible recruits mandatory military service might be the only realistic option to construct a believable defence force. If the military works purely on a meritocratic basis, as it ideally should, it also gets rid of the whole sending the poor to fight pointless wars as everyone is as likely to get sent. Also, while some have argued that mandatory service will make the society more likely to turn fascist, because every military ever brainwashes their soldiers into brainless nazis, I think it is the opposite. Mandatory military service makes voters much more interested in any foreign interventions on a personal level then a professional army would, because your own safety is on the line.

America's wars in the Middle East were opposed by enormous anti-war protests. People were plenty interested in stopping those wars without their own lives being on the line.

Yes? Not enough people apparently seeing as those wars still happened.

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

No, and calling it that is spitting in the face of everyone who has suffered under fascism, and all of its sister ideologies. People, especially Americans, love using the term fascism as a buzzword. But it’s a real belief that has caused the worst genocide in all of human history, and some of the most horrid events as well. And yet people like you call others fascist and Nazis because what, you disagree with them? Because serving in the military isn’t fun? That’s shameful, to say the least.

[Ifreann]

America's wars in the Middle East were opposed by enormous anti-war protests. People were plenty interested in stopping those wars without their own lives being on the line.

Yes?

And therefore the proposition that voters are more interested in foreign interventions when their own lives are on the line is clearly bunk.

Not enough people apparently seeing as those wars still happened.

Don't know how familiar you are with American politics, but they don't decide to wage war or not based on a national referendum.

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Not enough people apparently seeing as those wars still happened.

Don't know how familiar you are with American politics, but they don't decide to wage war or not based on a national referendum.

Their point still stands. Had the war truly been as unpopular as you claim, Bush wouldn’t have been reelected. When you think about it, he just gave his voters what he promised.

[Oshiri Tantei]

Yes?

And therefore the proposition that voters are more interested in foreign interventions when their own lives are on the line is clearly bunk.

Not enough people apparently seeing as those wars still happened.

Don't know how familiar you are with American politics, but they don't decide to wage war or not based on a national referendum.

So, voters don't have a say who you wage war with, but somehow who you waged war with means that voters aren't more interested in foreign interventions when their own lives are on the line? Sounds legit.

[Necroghastia]

Sadly, there are people in power, who can't make love due to the age or something, which is why they make war. Still, I belive, that volunteer force is better than conscript one, expecially in the age, where quantity becomes less important than it was during the old age. Volunteers are just more inclined than some random dude dragged from the streets, to have qualities, that are must have for a soldier.

This is just all kinds of wrong. There are no special qualities a soldier must have, that an average 20 something person does not have.

The resolve to die in a foreign land?

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

This is just all kinds of wrong. There are no special qualities a soldier must have, that an average 20 something person does not have.

The resolve to die in a foreign land?

It’s a personal preference.
But seriously, Oshiri Tantei is right.

[Oshiri Tantei]

This is just all kinds of wrong. There are no special qualities a soldier must have, that an average 20 something person does not have.

The resolve to die in a foreign land?

That's not a great quality to have as a soldier, if someone has to die, you make sure it is not you that dies. Why foreign land, there are such things as defence forces you know. They consist of soldiers just like any armed force, be they conscripts or professional.

[Ifreann]

Don't know how familiar you are with American politics, but they don't decide to wage war or not based on a national referendum.

Their point still stands. Had the war truly been as unpopular as you claim, Bush wouldn’t have been reelected. When you think about it, he just gave his voters what he promised.

I said that the protests against the war were the biggest ever. And they were. I don't know why you think that Bush's re-election means that they could not possibly have been that big.

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And therefore the proposition that voters are more interested in foreign interventions when their own lives are on the line is clearly bunk.


Don't know how familiar you are with American politics, but they don't decide to wage war or not based on a national referendum.

So, voters don't have a say who you wage war with,

American voters do not, correct.

but somehow who you waged war with means that voters aren't more interested in foreign interventions when their own lives are on the line? Sounds legit.

My point, again, is that people clearly were interested in the foreign interventions, regardless of their own lives not being on the line. This is evident by the huge anti-war protests. The fact that the wars happened despite these protests does not refute the point that people were interested in these foreign interventions. There was also considerable political support for the war. America's so-called war on terror isn't something that happened because of a disinterested populace ignoring the actions of their government. I don't know if you're old enough to remember the early 00s, but this whole thing was pretty big news all over the world. No one was ignoring it.

[Oshiri Tantei]

Their point still stands. Had the war truly been as unpopular as you claim, Bush wouldn’t have been reelected. When you think about it, he just gave his voters what he promised.

I said that the protests against the war were the biggest ever. And they were. I don't know why you think that Bush's re-election means that they could not possibly have been that big.

---

So, voters don't have a say who you wage war with,

American voters do not, correct.

but somehow who you waged war with means that voters aren't more interested in foreign interventions when their own lives are on the line? Sounds legit.

My point, again, is that people clearly were interested in the foreign interventions, regardless of their own lives not being on the line. This is evident by the huge anti-war protests. The fact that the wars happened despite these protests does not refute the point that people were interested in these foreign interventions. There was also considerable political support for the war. America's so-called war on terror isn't something that happened because of a disinterested populace ignoring the actions of their government. I don't know if you're old enough to remember the early 00s, but this whole thing was pretty big news all over the world. No one was ignoring it.

And, do you have a point? I'm well aware of the scope of protests. That does nothing to prove how conscription affects peoples views on foreign interventions. I did not claim anywhere that people cannot be interested and indeed opposed to such policies without conscription, did I. I said that it makes the average voter interested in such policies on a more personal level if they themselves are likely to have to do the fighting. You have done nothing to show how that assertion is not true, all you have done is shown there were some amount of people who protested such policies even without conscription.

[Senkaku]

Some sort of national service should be required be it Police, National Gaurd, Military, National Park Ranger, Game Warden, Construction, Etc. There's nothing wrong with requiring Able bodied citizens to protect their nation. We have an all Volunteer Force in the US but conscription is still on the books. Every man 18- 25 has to register for the draft before they can vote. It's a little hypocritical that we have to sign up for the possibility of Military service before we can vote and weman are just allowed to vote but that's for another time. Point being Service Guarantees citizenship is fine by me.

Your point is that fascism is fine by you?

The point is just that they like Starship Troopers and are still figuring out how they feel about women; being fine with conditions that could be described as fascism is usually downstream of little quirks like that

This is just all kinds of wrong. There are no special qualities a soldier must have, that an average 20 something person does not have.

The resolve to die in a foreign land?

Couple weeks with a drill sergeant will fill anyone with an adequate amount of that

[Ifreann]

I said that the protests against the war were the biggest ever. And they were. I don't know why you think that Bush's re-election means that they could not possibly have been that big.

---

American voters do not, correct.

My point, again, is that people clearly were interested in the foreign interventions, regardless of their own lives not being on the line. This is evident by the huge anti-war protests. The fact that the wars happened despite these protests does not refute the point that people were interested in these foreign interventions. There was also considerable political support for the war. America's so-called war on terror isn't something that happened because of a disinterested populace ignoring the actions of their government. I don't know if you're old enough to remember the early 00s, but this whole thing was pretty big news all over the world. No one was ignoring it.

And, do you have a point? I'm well aware of the scope of protests. That does nothing to prove how conscription affects peoples views on foreign interventions. I did not claim anywhere that people cannot be interested and indeed opposed to such policies without conscription, did I. I said that it makes the average voter interested in such policies on a more personal level if they themselves are likely to have to do the fighting. You have done nothing to show how that assertion is not true, all you have done is shown there were some amount of people who protested such policies even without conscription.

You have done nothing to show that conscription affects people's views on foreign interventions except claim that it does. I have shown that people can be fully interested in foreign interventions regardless of their own lives being on the line. So this claimed benefit of conscription has not been shown to exist at all, and even if it did it would be redundant.