Islamic Discussion Thread ٣

[Jochizyd Republic]

Eeeh, I disagree with this. I do think they choose to be homosexual. Everyone is born pure, submitting to Allah. It's their environment and those around that bring them closer to or further away from the Haqq.

If this were the case, than homosexuality could be reversed. It can't. In Western psychology, homosexual aversion therapy existed for centuries, often in the shape of electroshock therapy to induce aversion to homosexuality in gays and "convert" them to heterosexuality. It has never worked, and only succeeded in creating mental illness in the subjects and regularly resulting in death.

So no, it is not something that has been taught. Homosexuals are born with a natural attraction to the same sex and a sexual aversion to the other sex.

Yeah but that doesn't make it okay.

Basically every young person is born with a natural aversion to committed relationships and really wants to commit zina with every woman they see. You know how teenagers are.
But just because this is natural does not mean it's a good thing.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

If this were the case, than homosexuality could be reversed. It can't. In Western psychology, homosexual aversion therapy existed for centuries, often in the shape of electroshock therapy to induce aversion to homosexuality in gays and "convert" them to heterosexuality. It has never worked, and only succeeded in creating mental illness in the subjects and regularly resulting in death.

So no, it is not something that has been taught. Homosexuals are born with a natural attraction to the same sex and a sexual aversion to the other sex.

Yeah but that doesn't make it okay.

Basically every young person is born with a natural aversion to committed relationships and really wants to commit zina with every woman they see. You know how teenagers are.
But just because this is natural does not mean it's a good thing.

You just remided of a friend that wants to commit that to her boyfriend. She's not Muslim, but still, I advised her not to do that.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

If this were the case, than homosexuality could be reversed. It can't. In Western psychology, homosexual aversion therapy existed for centuries, often in the shape of electroshock therapy to induce aversion to homosexuality in gays and "convert" them to heterosexuality. It has never worked, and only succeeded in creating mental illness in the subjects and regularly resulting in death.

So no, it is not something that has been taught. Homosexuals are born with a natural attraction to the same sex and a sexual aversion to the other sex.

Yeah but that doesn't make it okay.

Basically every young person is born with a natural aversion to committed relationships and really wants to commit zina with every woman they see. You know how teenagers are.
But just because this is natural does not mean it's a good thing.

Well said

[Jochizyd Republic]

So, an Islamic theological question that I find highly intriguing:

What is your opinion about the ijtihad versus taqlid discussion, what I would dare to call one of the most important debates in the Ummah of the last few centuries?

Taqlid is just what's fard. A Muslim must choose a Madhab. Choose a Tariqat and keep close the the mashrab of learned Sheikhs.

Interpretation should be reserved for people who had the correct training. People who have spent years committed to learning the language of the Qur'an, Studying the Sunna, Studying the works of the Ulema, before they become an authority on Islam.
There really does have to be a standard to who gets to be a Sheikh and breaking up that standard has led to atrocity after atrocity.

Christianity has had this problem before. With certain Protestants denouncing the Church and applying a "common mans" reading of the Scripture. And this is very dangerous when applied to Islam. Particularly in these times of revolutionary belief systems.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Not that I'm saying that there aren't and have never been valid reasons to oppose Sufi Sheikhs and Corruption in the Ulema.

I'm not that extreme. I'm not like a Barelvi or anything. lol.

But the doctrine of Taqlid still has to be upheld. The Ulema and the Tariqat have to be there because if they aren't the structure of Islam is lost and you have a bunch of Fundamentalists and Radicals running wild. Which is happening now.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Not that I'm saying that there aren't and have never been valid reasons to oppose Sufi Sheikhs and Corruption in the Ulema.

I'm not that extreme. I'm not like a Barelvi or anything. lol.

But the doctrine of Taqlid still has to be upheld. The Ulema and the Tariqat have to be there because if they aren't the structure of Islam is lost and you have a bunch of Fundamentalists and Radicals running wild. Which is happening now.

Points made, points made. I have that problem, being rebellious against Ulama. Which has led to some arguments in my family.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Not that I'm saying that there aren't and have never been valid reasons to oppose Sufi Sheikhs and Corruption in the Ulema.

I'm not that extreme. I'm not like a Barelvi or anything. lol.

But the doctrine of Taqlid still has to be upheld. The Ulema and the Tariqat have to be there because if they aren't the structure of Islam is lost and you have a bunch of Fundamentalists and Radicals running wild. Which is happening now.

Points made, points made. I have that problem, being rebellious against Ulama. Which has led to some arguments in my family.

Why rebellious?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Points made, points made. I have that problem, being rebellious against Ulama. Which has led to some arguments in my family.

On what issues?

Well it can go from topic to topic. I thought Muslim men coudln't clap; upon further reading the ahadeeth that spoke on that were about prayer. Pictures, that wasn't really an argument, but my mom thinks there's a midway to what the hadith speaks of. And hijab. My family thinks hijab is optional.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Points made, points made. I have that problem, being rebellious against Ulama. Which has led to some arguments in my family.

Why rebellious?

Because the Ulama are Humans, not gods. But that doesn't mean I should try to interpret stuff on my own.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

On what issues?

Well it can go from topic to topic. I thought Muslim men coudln't clap; upon further reading the ahadeeth that spoke on that were about prayer. Pictures, that wasn't really an argument, but my mom thinks there's a midway to what the hadith speaks of. And hijab. My family thinks hijab is optional.

What does clapping have to do with prayer?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Well it can go from topic to topic. I thought Muslim men coudln't clap; upon further reading the ahadeeth that spoke on that were about prayer. Pictures, that wasn't really an argument, but my mom thinks there's a midway to what the hadith speaks of. And hijab. My family thinks hijab is optional.

What does clapping have to do with prayer?

https://sunnah.com/search/?q=clap

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

What does clapping have to do with prayer?

https://sunnah.com/search/?q=clap

What does this have to do with Salah?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

https://sunnah.com/search/?q=clap

What does this have to do with Salah?

Did you read them? I asssumed that since they were in the ahadeeth on salah, they had to do with it. I may be wrong.

[Jochizyd Republic]

What does clapping have to do with prayer?

https://sunnah.com/search/?q=clap

Yeah. this is why you talk to a sheikh

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

What does this have to do with Salah?

Did you read them? I asssumed that since they were in the ahadeeth on salah, they had to do with it. I may be wrong.

These are Sahih Hadith but it is just a command not to clap there isn't anything here explaining the methodology Salah. Are you thinking of clasping?
like this?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Did you read them? I asssumed that since they were in the ahadeeth on salah, they had to do with it. I may be wrong.

These are Sahih Hadith but it is just a command not to clap there isn't anything here explaining the methodology Salah. Are you thinking of clasping?
like this?

No, Jochi's post got my delimma

[Bre Yu]

Oh, I don't think so but I wasn't thinking of converting.
We can all peacefully disagree can't we?

We can indeed.
Just out of curiosity though, you say you are non-affiliated, but of a Presbyterian background. Would you stikl describe yourself as a Reformed Protestant though?

*sigh* by unaffiliated I mean I converted to atheism, thought the word atheism would be too strong so I used unaffiliated.

[Bre Yu]

So homosexuals are born not Muslim?

No every human is born Muslim

I was born Presbyterian

strangely I was told in Christianity that the act of being born was a sin...

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

No every human is born Muslim

I was born Presbyterian

strangely I was told in Christianity that the act of being born was a sin...

In Islam we believe everyone is born sinless which is why they are Muslim and as they get older and commit sins and if their parents of different religions this is what makes people different religions and accumulate sins.

[Gondolaulus]

I really love how you assume that I see certain Muslims as Muslims and some not.

I'm not a takfiri. I will regard any Muslim who says the Shahada as a Muslim. Even salafis.

If an Atheist says he believes in God is he still an Atheist?

No, he wouldn't be an Atheist. That statement is self-evident.

[Kubumba Tribe]

If an Atheist says he believes in God is he still an Atheist?

No, he wouldn't be an Atheist. That statement is self-evident.

Exactly. So is a Muslim who follows none of the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah still a Muslim?

[Alsheb]

No, he wouldn't be an Atheist. That statement is self-evident.

Exactly. So is a Muslim who follows none of the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah still a Muslim?

If he is a believer in the Shahadah, then yes. Just not a very good one.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Exactly. So is a Muslim who follows none of the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah still a Muslim?

If he is a believer in the Shahadah, then yes. Just not a very good one.

http://legacy.quran.com/5/5
http://legacy.quran.com/4/14
https://sunnah.com/nasai/51/121
https://sunnah.com/nasai/45/164
https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah/36/11

[Gondolaulus]

No, he wouldn't be an Atheist. That statement is self-evident.

Exactly. So is a Muslim who follows none of the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah still a Muslim?

I sincerely doubt that someone who calls himself a Muslim follows zero laws from Qu'ran or Sunnah.

Your question however is that when we can call someone a kaffir.

My answer to that is that anyone who says the Shahada is in my eyes a Muslim.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Exactly. So is a Muslim who follows none of the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah still a Muslim?

I sincerely doubt that someone who calls himself a Muslim follows zero laws from Qu'ran or Sunnah.

Your question however is that when we can call someone a kaffir.

My answer to that is that anyone who says the Shahada is in my eyes a Muslim.

Even if they don't follow Allah (SWT)?