English: A Broken Language?

[Sovaal]

So uh, starts with sl and rhymes with hut?

No, just very promiscuous.

No need to shame the behaviour.

Hence why I didn't say it.

[Petrasylvania]

So does that make memes VD?

[Sanctissima]

I get the feeling that the people who say that English is broken are the ones who are trying to rationalize why they failed their English class...

Regardless, my main gripe with Shakespeare is that I consider him an overrated Elizabethan writer who gets treated as though he was a literary genius when in reality he was a cheap discount playwright whose only real contribution to English literature was giving High School English teachers something to get their students to groan about. Not even high-quality meme value. I've seen better.

Marlowe was better anyway.

Considerably.

Granted, Shakespeare had some good works, but overall he was just a cheap knock-off Marlowe.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

[...]Regardless, my main gripe with Shakespeare is that I consider him an overrated Elizabethan writer who gets treated as though he was a literary genius when in reality he was a cheap discount playwright whose only real contribution to English literature was giving High School English teachers something to get their students to groan about. Not even high-quality meme value. I've seen better.

Fuckin' hell, this is edgy. Wrong? Not necessarily.

[Sanctissima]

[...]Regardless, my main gripe with Shakespeare is that I consider him an overrated Elizabethan writer who gets treated as though he was a literary genius when in reality he was a cheap discount playwright whose only real contribution to English literature was giving High School English teachers something to get their students to groan about. Not even high-quality meme value. I've seen better.

Fuckin' hell, this is edgy. Wrong? Not necessarily.

I've considered adopting "Daoist Asshole" as a cognomen.

[Purpelia]

Regardless, my main gripe with Shakespeare is that I consider him an overrated Elizabethan writer who gets treated as though he was a literary genius when in reality he was a cheap discount playwright whose only real contribution to English literature was giving High School English teachers something to get their students to groan about. Not even high-quality meme value. I've seen better.

Seriously man, have you actually read any of his work? And I mean like actually sat down to read it properly and not in a forced angry "I am in high school and hate everything + I hate this because I am forced to do it" context? Because all discussion aside I find that the vast majority of things you are forced to read whilst in school are forced upon you and thus automatically seen as bad. And most of it is really literature that is definitively not intended for an audience that young either. And those two combine to make most of it look like crap to you even when it really isn't.

[Sanctissima]

Regardless, my main gripe with Shakespeare is that I consider him an overrated Elizabethan writer who gets treated as though he was a literary genius when in reality he was a cheap discount playwright whose only real contribution to English literature was giving High School English teachers something to get their students to groan about. Not even high-quality meme value. I've seen better.

Seriously man, have you actually read any of his work? And I mean like actually sat down to read it properly and not in a forced angry "I am in high school and hate everything + I hate this because I am forced to do it" context? Because all discussion aside I find that the vast majority of things you are forced to read whilst in school are forced upon you and thus automatically seen as bad. And most of it is really literature that is definitively not intended for an audience that young either. And those two combine to make most of it look like crap to you even when it really isn't.

Funnily enough, I genuinely liked Shakespeare when I was in High School. It's when I got older and realized he wasn't the be-all end-all of English drama that I started to develop a disdain for the man's works.

So I'm not sure how relevant your assertion is.

[Purpelia]

So I'm not sure how relevant your assertion is.

It's not so much of an assertion as a question that needed to be asked because of an existing and significant general trend that exists within the population. Of course, this trend is not going to be the explanation for every case. But it's worth asking to at the very least rule it out and at best perhaps identify the root cause which can than be addressed. Because let's face it, it's a dam shame for someone to spend his life hating something beautiful just because of bad education. It's not like you who have made an informed decision about it. And in the case I am wrong and it is the worst thing that's happened is I've wasted some seconds writing a text message.

[Arvanon and Vortes]

Regardless, my main gripe with Shakespeare is that I consider him an overrated Elizabethan writer who gets treated as though he was a literary genius when in reality he was a cheap discount playwright whose only real contribution to English literature was giving High School English teachers something to get their students to groan about. Not even high-quality meme value. I've seen better.

Seriously man, have you actually read any of his work? And I mean like actually sat down to read it properly and not in a forced angry "I am in high school and hate everything + I hate this because I am forced to do it" context? Because all discussion aside I find that the vast majority of things you are forced to read whilst in school are forced upon you and thus automatically seen as bad. And most of it is really literature that is definitively not intended for an audience that young either. And those two combine to make most of it look like crap to you even when it really isn't.

For me, my enjoyment of Shakespeare inhabits the same 'guilty pleasure' section of my mind as enjoying non-intellectual comedy films or action films. He makes some very humorous content, but honestly, it's only his longevity and acceptance of basic literary devices in storytelling that sets him apart from his contemporaries and those before, as well as his inventive use of language. If his work had gone undiscovered for many years, before being discovered again, it would not be nearly as impressive as it is now, having existed continually throughout the centuries.

[Napkiraly]

English is the best language there is.

I get the feeling that the people who say that English is broken are the ones who are trying to rationalize why they failed their English class...


Marlowe was better anyway.

Considerably.

Granted, Shakespeare had some good works, but overall he was just a cheap knock-off Marlowe.

You only say this because you are Irish.

[Purpelia]

Seriously man, have you actually read any of his work? And I mean like actually sat down to read it properly and not in a forced angry "I am in high school and hate everything + I hate this because I am forced to do it" context? Because all discussion aside I find that the vast majority of things you are forced to read whilst in school are forced upon you and thus automatically seen as bad. And most of it is really literature that is definitively not intended for an audience that young either. And those two combine to make most of it look like crap to you even when it really isn't.

For me, my enjoyment of Shakespeare inhabits the same 'guilty pleasure' section of my mind as enjoying non-intellectual comedy films or action films. He makes some very humorous content, but honestly, it's only his longevity and acceptance of basic literary devices in storytelling that sets him apart from his contemporaries and those before, as well as his inventive use of language. If his work had gone undiscovered for many years, before being discovered again, it would not be nearly as impressive as it is now, having existed continually throughout the centuries.

For my part I just genuinely enjoy his work. It's just fun to read, you know? He can tell a story and tell it in an interesting way that will keep me reading until I am done. I've newer really cared to analyze it beyond that.

[Sanctissima]

So I'm not sure how relevant your assertion is.

It's not so much of an assertion as a question that needed to be asked because of an existing and significant general trend that exists within the population. Of course, this trend is not going to be the explanation for every case. But it's worth asking to at the very least rule it out and at best perhaps identify the root cause which can than be addressed. Because let's face it, it's a dam shame for someone to spend his life hating something beautiful just because of bad education. It's not like you who have made an informed decision about it. And in the case I am wrong and it is the worst thing that's happened is I've wasted some seconds writing a text message.

Eh, fair enough. But regardless, I doubt exposing people to Shakespeare later on in their lives would change the general attitude towards his plays overly much. Maybe some of the better plays like Macbeth, Romeo & Juliet, and maybe even Othello would get more love, but overall I doubt the general public opinion would change much.

It's an acquired taste. One which I'm not particularly fond of.

[Sanctissima]

English is the best language there is.

Considerably.

Granted, Shakespeare had some good works, but overall he was just a cheap knock-off Marlowe.

You only say this because you are Irish.

Baggorah, t'is like a second Potato Famine!

Give back Ulster ye Sassanach. 26 + 6 = 1!

[Purpelia]

It's not so much of an assertion as a question that needed to be asked because of an existing and significant general trend that exists within the population. Of course, this trend is not going to be the explanation for every case. But it's worth asking to at the very least rule it out and at best perhaps identify the root cause which can than be addressed. Because let's face it, it's a dam shame for someone to spend his life hating something beautiful just because of bad education. It's not like you who have made an informed decision about it. And in the case I am wrong and it is the worst thing that's happened is I've wasted some seconds writing a text message.

Eh, fair enough. But regardless, I doubt exposing people to Shakespeare later on in their lives would change the general attitude towards his plays overly much. Maybe some of the better plays like Macbeth, Romeo & Juliet, and maybe even Othello would get more love, but overall I doubt the general public opinion would change much.

It's an acquired taste. One which I'm not particularly fond of.

Either way, just how did this discussion about the english language and how broken (or not) it is end up being one about Shakespeare? And like, would anyone care to contribute to the actual topic so that I can get back to my usual practice of snarky middle of the road replies?

[Arvanon and Vortes]

For me, my enjoyment of Shakespeare inhabits the same 'guilty pleasure' section of my mind as enjoying non-intellectual comedy films or action films. He makes some very humorous content, but honestly, it's only his longevity and acceptance of basic literary devices in storytelling that sets him apart from his contemporaries and those before, as well as his inventive use of language. If his work had gone undiscovered for many years, before being discovered again, it would not be nearly as impressive as it is now, having existed continually throughout the centuries.

For my part I just genuinely enjoy his work. It's just fun to read, you know? He can tell a story and tell it in an interesting way that will keep me reading until I am done. I've newer really cared to analyze it beyond that.

I'd agree with that. He is insanely fun to read. Analysing it leads to cynicism of his work, which is where I think the distaste with his work comes from (English teachers just telling their students to analyse Shakespeare in an emotionless manner).

[Napkiraly]

English is the best language there is. You only say this because you are Irish.

Baggorah, t'is like a second Potato Famine!

Give back Ulster ye Sassanach. 26 + 6 = 1!

Over my dead body, bog Irishman!

[Alizeria]

I can't stand the English language. It's illogical, poorly devised (being, essentially, a cross between French and German) and has no soul or flavour to it... the linguistic equivalent of flour and water.

I've always preferred other languages.

[Arvanon and Vortes]

English is the best language there is. You only say this because you are Irish.

Baggorah, t'is like a second Potato Famine!

Give back Ulster ye Sassanach. 26 + 6 = 1!

Beg podden, gwyddeleg?

[Arvanon and Vortes]

I can't stand the English language. It's illogical, poorly devised (being, essentially, a cross between French and German) and has no soul or flavour to it... the linguistic equivalent of flour and water.

I've always preferred other languages.

Are you a native English speaker? Because I have a hypothesis that, if a language is widely spoken, native speakers of their language will always dislike it more than foreigners. I have many German friends who love English but hate German.

[Dooom35796821595]

I can't stand the English language. It's illogical, poorly devised (being, essentially, a cross between French and German) and has no soul or flavour to it... the linguistic equivalent of flour and water.

I've always preferred other languages.

And the fact you happen to be French has nothing to do with it, right...

[Napkiraly]

I can't stand the English language. It's illogical, poorly devised (being, essentially, a cross between French and German) and has no soul or flavour to it... the linguistic equivalent of flour and water.

I've always preferred other languages.

Never try to learn Tibetan.

[Arvanon and Vortes]

I can't stand the English language. It's illogical, poorly devised (being, essentially, a cross between French and German) and has no soul or flavour to it... the linguistic equivalent of flour and water.

I've always preferred other languages.

Never try to learn Tibetan.

The writing system is nice, though. Difficult to understand, perhaps, but nice.

But Thai... Now there's an evil language.

[Purpelia]

I'd agree with that. He is insanely fun to read. Analysing it leads to cynicism of his work, which is where I think the distaste with his work comes from (English teachers just telling their students to analyse Shakespeare in an emotionless manner).

That's true for any work in general. Like, I love reading. But I always despised book analysis. Its not that it should not be done. But children in school are just not qualified to do it intellectually yet. There is a reason why there are universities you need to finish in literature to do this thing professionally. So it ends up being a chore that you don't really understand and most likely copy out of pre written analysis books (nowadays I guess the internet?). I knew plenty of people who showed up for class having read these analysis and not the actual work and passed. And I am from Europe. I can't imagine how it must be for people stuck in the american education system.

I can't stand the English language. It's illogical, poorly devised (being, essentially, a cross between French and German) and has no soul or flavour to it... the linguistic equivalent of flour and water.

I've always preferred other languages.

I would not have been so blunt about it but I basically agree. Being fluent in all three of those I'll take German and French (in that order) over english any day. English is basically not bad but it's just a little bit clunky here and a tad bit strange there that it tickles you the wrong way once you compare it with something sensible like German.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I can't stand the English language. It's illogical, poorly devised (being, essentially, a cross between French and German) and has no soul or flavour to it... the linguistic equivalent of flour and water.

I've always preferred other languages.

>has no soul

So it's the ginger of the language world?

To be serious, I personally prefer English.

[Arvanon and Vortes]

I'd agree with that. He is insanely fun to read. Analysing it leads to cynicism of his work, which is where I think the distaste with his work comes from (English teachers just telling their students to analyse Shakespeare in an emotionless manner).

That's true for any work in general. Like, I love reading. But I always despised book analysis. Its not that it should not be done. But children in school are just not qualified to do it intellectually yet. There is a reason why there are universities you need to finish in literature to do this thing professionally. So it ends up being a chore that you don't really understand and most likely copy out of pre written analysis books (nowadays I guess the internet?). I knew plenty of people who showed up for class having read these analysis and not the actual work and passed. And I am from Europe. I can't imagine how it must be for people stuck in the american education system.

Ah, you're probably right. I haven't picked up many of the books I studied in High School, simply because I studied them in High School.