A gun in every house is a must

[Great Pacific Switzerland]

Ah, so only the state should have a monopoly of force.
What makes police and the military so special?

The state orders them into situations they're likely to be shot at. As a responsible employer, the state should provide them means of self-defense.

Mind you, I'd be OK with police not carrying guns. Less-lethal weapons plus having numerical advantage, should keep them safe enough.

Police need to be trained in martial arts firstly because most cops I see are an embarrassment and can't do hand to hand effectively, even with a baton. Of course, a sidearm is needed for dangerous situations. Interestingly in Adelaide, the police are all armed with Level 3 body armour and M4A1's in high pop areas

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

For all of Victoria

Victoria
Homicide and related offences
In 2019 there were 101 victims of homicide and related offences recorded in Victoria, an increase of 16 victims from the previous year.

For victims of homicide offences in 2019:

The majority (69%) were male (70 victims)
Most (56%) offences occurred at a residential location (57 victims)
The offender was known to the victim in almost two thirds of incidents (61%, 62 victims)
Over a third (36%) of incidents were recorded as FDV-related (36 victims)
Around one in five (21%) involved the use of a firearm (21 victims)
The majority (65%) of cases resulted in an offender being proceeded against within 30 days (66 victims)

Same source as last time, Australian Bureau of Sadistics

Even assuming all homicides happened in Melbourne (obviously not) only 39 of the killings were "you might get stabbed!!" stranger attacks and not all were with knives. (57 - 36) = 21 happened in a residence but were not Family/Domestic Violence incidents. That is 21 at most that might have been "home invasions" which btw tend to target extremely rich people (taking hostages to demand valuables) or drug dealers/traffickers (because they tend not to bank their money).

(For non-Aussies, Melbourne is the second-largest city with 5 million people, its state of Victoria has 6.7)

If you are seriously afraid of that level of risk just happening to you at random, then you shouldn't smoke or drink: both of those are more likely to kill you. And definitely don't drive any more than you have to ... or ride a bike, obviously.

No, I'm just saying Melbourne is a shithole. Its the LA of Australia like now Sydney is NYC of Australia

I love your town too.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

The state orders them into situations they're likely to be shot at. As a responsible employer, the state should provide them means of self-defense.

Mind you, I'd be OK with police not carrying guns. Less-lethal weapons plus having numerical advantage, should keep them safe enough.

Police need to be trained in martial arts firstly because most cops I see are an embarrassment and can't do hand to hand effectively, even with a baton. Of course, a sidearm is needed for dangerous situations. Interestingly in Adelaide, the police are all armed with Level 3 body armour and M4A1's in high pop areas

Sort of. I'm not sure I trust police enough to have them trained in seriously injuring or killing members of the public. Maybe you could develop a special Cop Fu that concentrates on breaking holds, disarming suspects, withstanding attacks and above all putting large individuals into face-down holds without injuring them any more than necessary ...?

What I'm concerned about is cops murdering people, and getting off on "I tried to use the Cop Fu I have been trained in, but the suspect moved unpredictable like and it turned out wrong. What I need is two weeks of supplementary training, on full pay, in Kiribati"

It may take a while, but eventually tasers will get good enough to painlessly incapacitate at long range, every time, and if lethal accidents remain a problem that's still better than shooting at the suspect. If that day ever comes, police could leave their pistols and sniper rifles in the boot of the car ... and some cops would go their whole career without using either weapon.

[Great Pacific Switzerland]

Police need to be trained in martial arts firstly because most cops I see are an embarrassment and can't do hand to hand effectively, even with a baton. Of course, a sidearm is needed for dangerous situations. Interestingly in Adelaide, the police are all armed with Level 3 body armour and M4A1's in high pop areas

Sort of. I'm not sure I trust police enough to have them trained in seriously injuring or killing members of the public. Maybe you could develop a special Cop Fu that concentrates on breaking holds, disarming suspects, withstanding attacks and above all putting large individuals into face-down holds without injuring them any more than necessary ...?

Mainly in Communist Eastern Bloc nations and Japan, they have their own martial arts which is more about takedowns. It's either SAMBO or Jujitsu

What I'm concerned about is cops murdering people, and getting off on "I tried to use the Cop Fu I have been trained in, but the suspect moved unpredictable like and it turned out wrong. What I need is two weeks of supplementary training, on full pay, in Kiribati"

Honestly, sounds more like an american problem.

It may take a while, but eventually tasers will get good enough to painlessly incapacitate at long range, every time, and if lethal accidents remain a problem that's still better than shooting at the suspect. If that day ever comes, police could leave their pistols and sniper rifles in the boot of the car ... and some cops would go their whole career without using either weapon.

Tasers are not useful enough as compared to a baton, fists or a gun. Also they are pain compliant, so if you are methed out you will be immune to a taser. Best you either use your baton or shoot. Too bad USA cops are inaccurate with their firearms, 3 out of 7 shots, pathetic. I do believe cops should carry a vest for stabbings and shooting but incase of some terror attack and any sort of spec ops will take too long the police should be able to rock up from their car with a shotgun or rifle, helmet, gas mask and grenades as well as extra plates. On regular duty, baton, sidearm, vest, handcuffs and their mind is what they need

[Grinning Dragon]

So... If you are employed by the state those employees should have the means to defend themselves and everyone else who isn't employed by the state can just fuck off, eh?

Did I say that? No, actually, I said "the state orders them ..." etc.

A profession in which arms are part of their job description does not convey firearm expertise nor proficiency, does not make them an expert in any sort. Being able to shoot a 7 out of 10 kill zone shots at a stationary target at 10 yrds before getting a badge doesn't instill a whole lot of confidence in me. At least military personell have to complete quals in various yardages.

I can justify police carrying guns when/where the public cannot, but as I said, I'd prefer they didn't.
Police should have more training in firearms, before carrying a firearm? No problem.

Just for a moment I thought you were going to argue that serving military should not have firearms, if you can't. But common sense prevailed.

I was just gauging on where you were coming from, if I made it seem that's what you were saying, I'm sorry that wasn't my intention.
A military wouldn't be very useful without the use of small arms.

[Ifreann]

The poster I'm speaking to lives, I believe, in Australia. Not "the ghetto".

Australia has ghettos, too. The point, however, is that there are plenty of people who would not buzz off just because they were being shot *at*. You would, in fact, need to hit them.

I'm sure there are. But I would think that they are few and far between.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

You clearly don't live in the ghetto, then. Plenty of people here used to being shot at and used to shooting back.

The poster I'm speaking to lives, I believe, in Australia. Not "the ghetto".

Alice Springs and Punchbowl exist.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

The poster I'm speaking to lives, I believe, in Australia. Not "the ghetto".

Alice Springs and Punchbowl exist.

Alice Springs is just the best known of many remote towns it's best not to walk around in if you're white and from the city. But y'know what? I'm OK with that.

Aboriginal people out of the big cities, are still very influenced their traditional way of life: entirely outdoors, and sitting around roughly in a circle to socialize. So in a sense, when you're dawdling in a remote town you're a stranger in someone else's house! The longer you hang around without talking to anyone (even another white fella) the more hostile looks you'll get. To make matters worse, it's suspicious that you're willingly outdoors when the town's white population (which may even be a majority) are in houses or the pub, out of the sun at least, and probably with an air conditioner on.

Aboriginal people in the city are quite different: the last thing they want is trouble with a white fella, because they're that sure police will take the white fella's side. And white fellas in the country are accepted easily, if they have the manners of a country working person, aren't a major landholder who has never given a job to a black fella, and basically any type except Soft Townie.

Soft Townies being about 70% of the population. Anyway I don't mind Aborigines acting like they own the place. By rights they do.


I haven't been to Punchbowl in some fifteen years. It was a poor area with a lot of immigrants but it felt safe enough. Maybe it's not now.

[Adamede]

guns should be kept only by police or military.

No

[The Two Jerseys]

guns should be kept only by police or military.

No

I'm still confused as to how the police can simultaneously be a racist organization that murders innocent brown people as well as the only ones who should be trusted with guns...

[Grinning Dragon]

No

I'm still confused as to how the police can simultaneously be a racist organization that murders innocent brown people as well as the only ones who should be trusted with guns...

Well that's right up there with the banshee cry of banning "weapons of war" only to then say those same "weapons of war" ain't gonna do shit against a military in a war.

[Picairn]

I'm still confused as to how the police can simultaneously be a racist organization that murders innocent brown people as well as the only ones who should be trusted with guns...

Make as much sense as simultaneously supporting the police and an insurrection that killed police officers.

We live in a clown world.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I'm still confused as to how the police can simultaneously be a racist organization that murders innocent brown people as well as the only ones who should be trusted with guns...

Make as much sense as simultaneously supporting the police and an insurrection that killed police officers.

We live in a clown world.

"Blue Lives Matter!"
*beats police officer to death*

What even is the world nowadays

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

"Blue Lives Matter!"
*beats police officer to death*

What even is the world nowadays

A rational, internally-consistent system of political ethics? Who needs that?

Just do whatever the guy with the loudest voice screams out. I’m sure nothing can possibly go wrong.

[Adamede]

No

I'm still confused as to how the police can simultaneously be a racist organization that murders innocent brown people as well as the only ones who should be trusted with guns...

Make as much sense as simultaneously supporting the police and an insurrection that killed police officers.

We live in a clown world.

"Blue Lives Matter!"
*beats police officer to death*

What even is the world nowadays

I mean we live in a world where one of the major ideologies of the last century was the dual belief that Jews are subhumans inferior to Aryan master race and the belief that Jews have controlled every aspect of the world for hundreds of not thousands of years.

[Great Pacific Switzerland]

No

I'm still confused as to how the police can simultaneously be a racist organization that murders innocent brown people as well as the only ones who should be trusted with guns...

Its because you live in the USA

[Ayytaly]

Fire all overweight cops.

[Great Pacific Switzerland]

Fire all overweight cops.

Thats 99% of the US police gone

[Agrotora]

No, but only because I don’t think every person could effectively use a gun if/when needed. I feel like it would just cause unnecessary harm and avoidable accidents.

[Kernen]

Now this will sound patronizing, but ... instead of trying to protect yourself with a reputation as someone who always shoots back, wouldn't it be better to move some place where people don't shoot at you?

Not if you don't want to leave your home.

[Adamede]

Now this will sound patronizing, but ... instead of trying to protect yourself with a reputation as someone who always shoots back, wouldn't it be better to move some place where people don't shoot at you?

Not if you don't want to leave your home.

Or can’t afford to move to a nicer place.

[UniversalCommons]

Unless you are dealing with a whack job, most robbers are going to rob you when you are not home. All they need to do is find out you are on vacation, you posted some pictures of you being in the Caribbean or something, or you are at some event, you are sitting down in your favorite restaurant, or are at a specific place where you spend several hours like the gym or a meeting. This is not hard to do. Basically, someone waits there and orders coffee. This is why it is important to have good neighbors.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Unless you are dealing with a whack job, most robbers are going to rob you when you are not home. All they need to do is find out you are on vacation, you posted some pictures of you being in the Caribbean or something, or you are at some event, you are sitting down in your favorite restaurant, or are at a specific place where you spend several hours like the gym or a meeting. This is not hard to do. Basically, someone waits there and orders coffee. This is why it is important to have good neighbors.

Actually you should have installed landmines on your lawn and a trapdoor beneath your porch so when they try to pick the lock, it swings open.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Unless you are dealing with a whack job, most robbers are going to rob you when you are not home. All they need to do is find out you are on vacation, you posted some pictures of you being in the Caribbean or something, or you are at some event, you are sitting down in your favorite restaurant, or are at a specific place where you spend several hours like the gym or a meeting. This is not hard to do. Basically, someone waits there and orders coffee. This is why it is important to have good neighbors.

Nearly half of all home invasions occur while someone is in the house, and most occur during the day too. Common perceptions of how burglaries happen don't really match the statistics of it.

[Thermodolia]

Unless you are dealing with a whack job, most robbers are going to rob you when you are not home. All they need to do is find out you are on vacation, you posted some pictures of you being in the Caribbean or something, or you are at some event, you are sitting down in your favorite restaurant, or are at a specific place where you spend several hours like the gym or a meeting. This is not hard to do. Basically, someone waits there and orders coffee. This is why it is important to have good neighbors.

That’s why you don’t use social media, ever