NationStates

Telconi wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Mandatory overtime in and of itself is an oxymoron
Overtime implies they are working more to achieve a goal of either more pay or to finish their task. It implies employee initiative
By forcing people to work overtime they are just working what they have to work

Overtime implies it's time over the normal work day. It's overtime rather your boss says to do it, or you voluntarily ask for it.

And some jobs basically must have it, I can't just fuck off of a job because it's quitting time. As of quitting time yesterday I had a customer''s home with literal holes poked in it, if I just punched out and went home, this person would have spent the night with literal holes in their home, this is bad juju. Which is why we have a set limit of mandatory OT, on any given week, the company can, at their sole discretion. have me work up to 14 hours of mandatory OT, on days I already work a shift.

Which sounds more like a question of personal morality. You continued working because there were holes in the house. If you left, you’d look like an asshole, and it’d reflect poorly on the company, so they may request you stay in exchange for bonus pay. By making it mandatory it now becomes that say, you’ve worked a full day, the house is in fine condition, you can just come in and finish it up tomorrow, and the company proceeds to force you to stay four more hours to finish

Telconi wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Mandatory overtime in and of itself is an oxymoron
Overtime implies they are working more to achieve a goal of either more pay or to finish their task. It implies employee initiative
By forcing people to work overtime they are just working what they have to work

Overtime implies it's time over the normal work day. It's overtime rather your boss says to do it, or you voluntarily ask for it.

And some jobs basically must have it, I can't just fuck off of a job because it's quitting time. As of quitting time yesterday I had a customer''s home with literal holes poked in it, if I just punched out and went home, this person would have spent the night with literal holes in their home, this is bad juju. Which is why we have a set limit of mandatory OT, on any given week, the company can, at their sole discretion. have me work up to 14 hours of mandatory OT, on days I already work a shift.

It's obvious really. I can't just finish a call because it's bye-bye time, and my calls can last literally hours. Longer if we have to call security, and they can tie a staff member up all night if we need to call an ambulance.

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

Telconi wrote:
Overtime implies it's time over the normal work day. It's overtime rather your boss says to do it, or you voluntarily ask for it.

And some jobs basically must have it, I can't just fuck off of a job because it's quitting time. As of quitting time yesterday I had a customer''s home with literal holes poked in it, if I just punched out and went home, this person would have spent the night with literal holes in their home, this is bad juju. Which is why we have a set limit of mandatory OT, on any given week, the company can, at their sole discretion. have me work up to 14 hours of mandatory OT, on days I already work a shift.

Which sounds more like a question of personal morality. You continued working because there were holes in the house. If you left, you’d look like an asshole, and it’d reflect poorly on the company, so they may request you stay in exchange for bonus pay. By making it mandatory it now becomes that say, you’ve worked a full day, the house is in fine condition, you can just come in and finish it up tomorrow, and the company proceeds to force you to stay four more hours to finish

Well, sure, they could, and sometimes it's effecient for them to do so. I also highly doubt you'd be cool with a workman just up and walking off because it's quitting time while someone standing in your yard could pass you a milk jug while you sat on your couch...

Liberated American Provinces wrote:

New haven america wrote:*Most of Europe's goverments are full of delusional ethno-nationalists

The notorious ethno-nationalists Theresa May, Angela Merkel, and Emmanuel Macron

don't forget British parliament!

Telconi wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Which sounds more like a question of personal morality. You continued working because there were holes in the house. If you left, you’d look like an asshole, and it’d reflect poorly on the company, so they may request you stay in exchange for bonus pay. By making it mandatory it now becomes that say, you’ve worked a full day, the house is in fine condition, you can just come in and finish it up tomorrow, and the company proceeds to force you to stay four more hours to finish

Well, sure, they could, and sometimes it's effecient for them to do so. I also highly doubt you'd be cool with a workman just up and walking off because it's quitting time while someone standing in your yard could pass you a milk jug while you sat on your couch...

I think you severely doubt the shit I’m willing to endure because I’m to socially awkward to stand up for myself in situations like that

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:

Telconi wrote:
Overtime implies it's time over the normal work day. It's overtime rather your boss says to do it, or you voluntarily ask for it.

And some jobs basically must have it, I can't just fuck off of a job because it's quitting time. As of quitting time yesterday I had a customer''s home with literal holes poked in it, if I just punched out and went home, this person would have spent the night with literal holes in their home, this is bad juju. Which is why we have a set limit of mandatory OT, on any given week, the company can, at their sole discretion. have me work up to 14 hours of mandatory OT, on days I already work a shift.

It's obvious really. I can't just finish a call because it's bye-bye time, and my calls can last literally hours. Longer if we have to call security, and they can tie a staff member up all night if we need to call an ambulance.

Yeah, emergency workers are even more pressing. "Sorry your house is burning down ma'am, but, uh, the shift's over.

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

Telconi wrote:
Well, sure, they could, and sometimes it's effecient for them to do so. I also highly doubt you'd be cool with a workman just up and walking off because it's quitting time while someone standing in your yard could pass you a milk jug while you sat on your couch...

I think you severely doubt the shit I’m willing to endure because I’m to socially awkward to stand up for myself in situations like that

There's a major difference between not standing up for yourself, and not being bothered. Things you endure due to anxiety can still very much be problems.

Telconi wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Mandatory overtime in and of itself is an oxymoron
Overtime implies they are working more to achieve a goal of either more pay or to finish their task. It implies employee initiative
By forcing people to work overtime they are just working what they have to work

Overtime implies it's time over the normal work day. It's overtime rather your boss says to do it, or you voluntarily ask for it.

And some jobs basically must have it, I can't just fuck off of a job because it's quitting time. As of quitting time yesterday I had a customer''s home with literal holes poked in it, if I just punched out and went home, this person would have spent the night with literal holes in their home, this is bad juju. Which is why we have a set limit of mandatory OT, on any given week, the company can, at their sole discretion. have me work up to 14 hours of mandatory OT, on days I already work a shift.

Same with the emergency services. You can work a lot of overtime

Thermodolia wrote:

Telconi wrote:
Overtime implies it's time over the normal work day. It's overtime rather your boss says to do it, or you voluntarily ask for it.

And some jobs basically must have it, I can't just fuck off of a job because it's quitting time. As of quitting time yesterday I had a customer''s home with literal holes poked in it, if I just punched out and went home, this person would have spent the night with literal holes in their home, this is bad juju. Which is why we have a set limit of mandatory OT, on any given week, the company can, at their sole discretion. have me work up to 14 hours of mandatory OT, on days I already work a shift.

Same with the emergency services. You can work a lot of overtime

Same with security work.

You can't just go "k guys my shift is over so uh seeya tomorrow lol" in the middle of a fucking fire alarm, medical intervention, or major water leak.

-Ocelot- wrote:They deserve it. Don't want scary brown immigrants to come into your country? Work until you drop dead.

I'd say that this was a tough guy attitude, but then I got to the part talking about people dropping dead from a 48 hour workweek

-Ocelot- wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:
Labour laws are not being deregulated, they are being made more flexible for the benefit of workers.

If they want to, they can work an extra three hours a week. Previously, they could not.

It's perfectly voluntary, guys! Either comply with us and work "voluntarily" until you drop, or starve. The decision is yours!

You can't be this naive.

Are you saying that two hours of extra work a day will lead to mass starvation in Hungary?

Frievolk wrote:Something that is even more interesting to me than Hungary being retarded again is the number of people saying "But Americans work N hours a week and they're f i n e." because like... Maybe... just Maybe it's the American model that's flawed and Western Europe (as usual, these days) has the right idea? (Of course, fucking up everything sane people have achieved this last 150 years seems to be one of the main habits of Mr. Orban, so not very surprised in Hungary fucking up once again, but that's irrelevant)

America is flawed in many ways, but it's also a great place to make a living by working smart and working hard. There's a reason that so many want to come here, although part of said reason might be that they haven't experienced the US Healthcare System

Trumptonium1 wrote:This may surprise you, but there are millions of people out there who want to work overtime to get paid more. This law allows them to do so. Previously, they could not do so even if they wanted to. Employees in Europe are not allowed to work more than 48 hours a week, unless national governments legislate an opportunity to do so in which case the employee can only work more than 48 hours if they submit a written statement to a relevant authority. Previously, the absolute legal maximum working time in Hungary was 48 hours for contract employees. In the UK, the legal maximum is also limited to 48 hours including overtime.

https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 32003L0088

Wait - what the fuck? They're limited to 48 hours? Ok, now I'm laughing at this thread even more. Perhaps some of us like working 60 hour weeks, so that we can take two months off from work to travel, and so that we're not financially constrained while we travel.

Petrolheadia wrote:

-Ocelot- wrote:They deserve it. Don't want scary brown immigrants to come into your country? Work until you drop dead.

Well, I'd say a country with a good immigrant policy deserves a good labor policy.

I agree as well - they deserve it!

Petrolheadia wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:
Honestly the market should be allowed to respond and simply raise prices for labour.

I suppose the argument can be made that wage growth is too high for inflation (6% on real terms for Poland) but increasing immigration of Ukrainians only inflates market prices for everyone else regardless if they are participating in the wage increases or not, especially in the previously untouched sector of real estate/renting.

But it's no surprise some posters here are butthurt. At the end of the day the Czech Republic has 320 000 job vacancies (6% of entire labour force unfulfilled), which is more jobs on offer than in France and Spain (100 million more people than the Czechs) put together. Bound to be some resentment.

That's free market without immigrant pressure for you.

Some really good stuff, it's a shame we have the Ukrainians.

That's a problem with the hit your nose to spite the Russians attitude. Same goes for the Baltics, and their attacks on the Russian Language. Knowing the language, whether you support the current administration or not, is an asset. You don't teach it, you get less jobs. You support the Maidan "Government" - you get less jobs.

Internationalist Bastard wrote:

Telconi wrote:
If it's a part of employment, I don't see an issue with mandatory OT.

Mandatory overtime in and of itself is an oxymoron
Overtime implies they are working more to achieve a goal of either more pay or to finish their task. It implies employee initiative
By forcing people to work overtime they are just working what they have to work

In certain industries - overtime needs to be mandatory. Good news is that you should also be receiving overtime pay. A lot of Liberals wanted $15/hr - I think the minimum rate for mandatory overtime in California is above that.

Telconi wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Mandatory overtime in and of itself is an oxymoron
Overtime implies they are working more to achieve a goal of either more pay or to finish their task. It implies employee initiative
By forcing people to work overtime they are just working what they have to work

Overtime implies it's time over the normal work day. It's overtime rather your boss says to do it, or you voluntarily ask for it.

And some jobs basically must have it, I can't just fuck off of a job because it's quitting time. As of quitting time yesterday I had a customer''s home with literal holes poked in it, if I just punched out and went home, this person would have spent the night with literal holes in their home, this is bad juju. Which is why we have a set limit of mandatory OT, on any given week, the company can, at their sole discretion. have me work up to 14 hours of mandatory OT, on days I already work a shift.

14 hours of mandatory OT?! According to the OP - you're a slave, Telconi! Is that why you have all those guns, to lead a slave revolt?

(Sorry, I'm just having a hard time taking this thread seriously.)

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Same with the emergency services. You can work a lot of overtime

Same with security work.

You can't just go "k guys my shift is over so uh seeya tomorrow lol" in the middle of a fucking fire alarm, medical intervention, or major water leak.

Same with doing certain types of research - if the clients want to know X's reaction to Y event, you have to put in those 60 hours of work a week. You need mandatory overtime, but it should also be reasonably well compensated. $10 an hour for a 60 hour week? Fuck that shit. $100 an hour for a 60 hour week? When and where?

Novus Wrepland wrote:Secondly, it’s interesting what the ruling party revealed about which groups supported their legislative push. Fidesz politician Péter Szijjártó revealed to a German journalist that ”companies in the region of North Rhine Westphalia which have invested in Hungary in the past welcomed the news about the modification of the labor code, which will improve the country’s competitiveness.” It would be very interesting if German companies were actually the ones pushing for Hungary’s “sovereigntist” government to punish its own population.

Of course they would try to spin an unpopular law as if it were backed by foreigners to shift the blame. "Blame Germany" is an easy narrative for countries in Europe with economic problems, when really the problems are domestic.

Shofercia wrote:

Novus Wrepland wrote:Europe’s defender of the people’s right to control their borders strikes again! This time Hungary has taken to defending the worker’s right to be demanded of:

Hungary plans to water down a proposed bill aimed at boosting the extra hours employers can demand from workers after labor unions and opposition parties dubbed it the “slave law.”

Hungary, like other countries in eastern Europe, is struggling with a labor shortage that’s drawn complaints from companies that they can’t find enough qualified workers to fill vacant posts. Legislation originally submitted by ruling party lawmakers this week envisioned boosting the extra hours employers could force employees to work to 400 hours annually, from 250 hours now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-11-28/hungary-to-water-down-slave-law-after-uproar-over-extra-hours

In all seriousness, I think this points to something more interesting than what might be found in exaltation over some guy winning mayorship of an irrelevant and obscure town in Spain.

We are often told that the “mainstream” excuse given for immigration to the aging countries of Europe, that immigrants are needed to fill positions in the economy, is a lie. At worst, all we need is to drastically increase spending allocated to families. At best, the status quo will actually lead us to a heaven where we all enjoy standards of living due to a decreased population. Well if that were so why did Fidesz feel the need to squeeze Hungarian labor? Seems like immigration is a good thing after all, unless you’re a fan of the 19th Century work week.

Secondly, it’s interesting what the ruling party revealed about which groups supported their legislative push. Fidesz politician Péter Szijjártó revealed to a German journalist that ”companies in the region of North Rhine Westphalia which have invested in Hungary in the past welcomed the news about the modification of the labor code, which will improve the country’s competitiveness.” It would be very interesting if German companies were actually the ones pushing for Hungary’s “sovereigntist” government to punish its own population.

Did you miss the part about said workers being qualified? Something tells me that economic immigrants from a random, constantly bombed country in the Middle East, aren't going to, at least not usually, be qualified. One of the best ways to prevent immigration, is to stop bombing random countries in the name of "Liberation" as said stoppage in bombing would decrease the flow of economic immigrants.

A smarter approach for Hungary would be to train its own citizens, into becoming qualified workers, since there is unemployment among unqualified Hungarians. Also, forcing an employee to work three additional hours a week isn't slavery. It's not even remotely equivalent to slavery. You shorten your lunch by 6 minutes per day, and you stay 30 minutes later. In what World is that equivalent to slavery?

But hey, let's talk about this "Culture of Slavery" in Hungary. I looked it up. It's dire. Absolutely dire: https://businessculture.org/eastern-eur ... e-balance/

A standard working week is 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, starting at 8 or 8:30 am. Part-time work is not well regulated yet and business people commonly stay late at work, even on weekends. As office hours may vary, you should check before contacting your business partner. Friday is often a short day and business people may leave at about 4 pm or earlier. Banks generally open at 8am and close early, while shops are open until 6pm from Monday to Friday. Daily lunch breaks usually do not last long, although business lunches may turn into long discussions.

Wow, you mean to tell me that Hungarians working forty hours a week, might have to work 48 hours? Oh tragedy of tragedies, this is slavery! It's not like the average American would ever have to work 48 hours a week - that'd be slavery... unless you count driving time, for which you're also not paid, but it's hard to work without getting to work. Maybe next time look up simple statistics, before equating a forty eight hour workweek to slavery, eh Wrepland?

>tfw an extra three hours of work is slavery
Europeans are a funny sort.

Kaggeceria wrote:

Shofercia wrote:
Did you miss the part about said workers being qualified? Something tells me that economic immigrants from a random, constantly bombed country in the Middle East, aren't going to, at least not usually, be qualified. One of the best ways to prevent immigration, is to stop bombing random countries in the name of "Liberation" as said stoppage in bombing would decrease the flow of economic immigrants.

A smarter approach for Hungary would be to train its own citizens, into becoming qualified workers, since there is unemployment among unqualified Hungarians. Also, forcing an employee to work three additional hours a week isn't slavery. It's not even remotely equivalent to slavery. You shorten your lunch by 6 minutes per day, and you stay 30 minutes later. In what World is that equivalent to slavery?

But hey, let's talk about this "Culture of Slavery" in Hungary. I looked it up. It's dire. Absolutely dire: https://businessculture.org/eastern-eur ... e-balance/



Wow, you mean to tell me that Hungarians working forty hours a week, might have to work 48 hours? Oh tragedy of tragedies, this is slavery! It's not like the average American would ever have to work 48 hours a week - that'd be slavery... unless you count driving time, for which you're also not paid, but it's hard to work without getting to work. Maybe next time look up simple statistics, before equating a forty eight hour workweek to slavery, eh Wrepland?

>tfw an extra three hours of work is slavery
Europeans are a funny sort.

8 extra hours every single week = 3 hours?

Othelos wrote:

Kaggeceria wrote:>tfw an extra three hours of work is slavery
Europeans are a funny sort.

8 extra hours every single week = 3 hours?

It's three additional hours a week, lad.

Kaggeceria wrote:

Othelos wrote:8 extra hours every single week = 3 hours? :eyebrow:

It's three additional hours a week, lad.

Right, on top of already working an extra 5 hours a week. 8 hours of overtime a week is quite a lot; that's the equivalent of working Monday - Saturday on a typical 8 hour schedule.

While I agree that it's far from slavery, it's still something some would consider worthwhile to complain about.

Othelos wrote:

Kaggeceria wrote:It's three additional hours a week, lad.

Right, on top of already working an extra 5 hours a week. 8 hours of overtime a week is quite a lot; that's the equivalent of working Monday - Saturday on a typical 8 hour schedule.

While I agree that it's far from slavery, it's still something some would consider worthwhile to complain about.

The extra hours aren't even mandatory, and employers can't penalize workers for not taking them.

Kaggeceria wrote:

Othelos wrote:Right, on top of already working an extra 5 hours a week. 8 hours of overtime a week is quite a lot; that's the equivalent of working Monday - Saturday on a typical 8 hour schedule.

While I agree that it's far from slavery, it's still something some would consider worthwhile to complain about.

The extra hours aren't even mandatory, and employers can't penalize workers for not taking them.

The OP phrased it as "extra hours employers can demand", implying compulsion.

Othelos wrote:

Kaggeceria wrote:The extra hours aren't even mandatory, and employers can't penalize workers for not taking them.

The OP phrased it as "extra hours employers can demand", implying compulsion.

You mean there was a misleading OP on NSG? Say it ain't so!

Othelos wrote:

Kaggeceria wrote:The extra hours aren't even mandatory, and employers can't penalize workers for not taking them.

The OP phrased it as "extra hours employers can demand", implying compulsion.

OP is misleading. Read the article.

The extra hours are not compulsory.

Shofercia wrote:

Othelos wrote:The OP phrased it as "extra hours employers can demand", implying compulsion.

You mean there was a misleading OP on NSG? Say it ain't so!

Why, next thing you know you'll be telling me that people lie on the internet!

Kaggeceria wrote:

Othelos wrote:The OP phrased it as "extra hours employers can demand", implying compulsion.

OP is misleading. Read the article.

The extra hours are not compulsory.

Well, then scratch everything I said. If people have the opportunity to work extra hours and want to, more power to them.

Kaggeceria wrote:

Shofercia wrote:
You mean there was a misleading OP on NSG? Say it ain't so!

Why, next thing you know you'll be telling me that people lie on the internet!

You have to appreciate just how much this thread embodies NSG:

- Misleading OP
- Issue completely blown out of proportion
- Tough guy attitude, while talking about an extra 2 hours of work a week
- Suggestion of a policy that won't help at all
- Posters pointing out that said policy won't help at all
- Guy saying mean stuff about some immigrants
- Mods banning guy saying mean stuff about immigrants, in what is no way an overreaction
- We continue to debate policy that clearly won't work
- After several pages, someone actually reads source, and finds that OP is misleading
- Random talks about politics
- Reich jokes
- Funny tanker jokes
- Suggestion of policy that will fail even more
- Someone decides to sarcastically explain why
- Americans and Europeans talking about Cultural Differences
- Random clues about Hungary
- Poster saying "fuck me"
- Discussion of religion that's mostly unrelated to the thread
- Hitler reference
- Poster stating facts accused of being "naive"
- We continue to discuss the original failed proposal, cuz "immigration"
- Arguing over the term "lazy" and what it means
- Arguing over economic theories
- Nitpicking
- Some Ukrainians get owned
- Discussion on Xenophobia
- And we're still discussing that policy that won't work, even though it's been beaten to death
- Is Poland homogeneous? It's a vital question that must be answered - what is homogeneous?
- Nobody brought up whether or not Plessy was homogeneous - missed opportunity there
- Russian dissing US Healthcare
- Liriena wishing
- OP comes back, claims that the original OP wasn't misleading
- "Calm down" "he is calm" "let's all calm down"
- Someone jokes about Telconi's guns
- May, Merkel, and Macron get dissed
- Explanation of why mandatory overtime is necessary
- Hey, we figured out what the OP was, and where it was wrong
- Someone defends their right to complain

I work 100-hour weeks, barely sleep, do some blow off my desk while I'm eight Red Bulls deep. Compared to what this is, my life's a challenge.

I like my bankroll bro. Keep your fucking work-life balance.

Pack your shit and get back to making $60k a year.