NationStates

Arglorand wrote:

Inyourfaceistan wrote:Or the Ukrainians could control their own damn resources, and remain independent from the EU...

Except they couldn't. If you'd know even the remotest thing about Eastern Europe's political situation, you'd know that not integrating yourself further with the EU is basically drawing ever closer to a day when Putin gains economic control over your nation.

Arglorand wrote:

Inyourfaceistan wrote:Or the Ukrainians could control their own damn resources, and remain independent from the EU...

Except they couldn't. If you'd know even the remotest thing about Eastern Europe's political situation, you'd know that not integrating yourself further with the EU is basically drawing ever closer to a day when Putin gains economic control over your nation.

Inyourfaceistan wrote:

Arglorand wrote:Except they couldn't. If you'd know even the remotest thing about Eastern Europe's political situation, you'd know that not integrating yourself further with the EU is basically drawing ever closer to a day when Putin gains economic control over your nation.

Why do the only two choices seem to be join the E.U. or be a Russian puppet. Why is there no third option?

The yoshin empire wrote:

Arglorand wrote:Except they couldn't. If you'd know even the remotest thing about Eastern Europe's political situation, you'd know that not integrating yourself further with the EU is basically drawing ever closer to a day when Putin gains economic control over your nation.

So the choice is between a rupublic and a dictator?

DrakoLand wrote:

Arglorand wrote:Except they couldn't. If you'd know even the remotest thing about Eastern Europe's political situation, you'd know that not integrating yourself further with the EU is basically drawing ever closer to a day when Putin gains economic control over your nation.

And how is that worse than ending up like Greece?

Divair wrote:

Liriena wrote:I fail to see how this is worthy of celebration. Most of the time, when a nation flips the bird at an international organization with a strong stance for human rights, it's because said nation doesn't want to be held accountable for whatever insidious antics they are trying to pull back home.

Ah, Ukraine. You have no clue how bad the human rights situation is until you go there. I may have told this story before on NS, I cannot recall. I work a lot with orphanages in Ukraine (hence the dozen visits), and one story stands out every time Ukraine is mentioned. One kid "graduated" from an orphanage. Now you see, you need to understand that Ukraine's police have a quota system. So.. they decide to blame a murder on him despite a lack of evidence. He's taken to a jail full of incredibly sick, incredibly tough criminals. There, he is beaten and tortured (the most horrifying tactic was to put a gas mask on his head, and then drain the air) to attempt to get a confession out of him. The wife of the deceased told the courts that he wasn't the murderer. She "disappeared". Eventually, a group of people who supported this bloke (me included, which is why I know all this) hired a very experienced lawyer from the States to come and deal with the case. It took a long time, and the lawyer was heavily injured after an assassination attempt, but we managed to get him on an EU torture watch-list. In the middle of the night a few years ago, he was randomly released from jail after the state had gotten sick of his supporters.


Ukraine. Not even once.

The yoshin empire wrote:

Arglorand wrote:Except they couldn't. If you'd know even the remotest thing about Eastern Europe's political situation, you'd know that not integrating yourself further with the EU is basically drawing ever closer to a day when Putin gains economic control over your nation.

So the choice is between a rupublic and a dictator?

DrakoLand wrote:

Arglorand wrote:Except they couldn't. If you'd know even the remotest thing about Eastern Europe's political situation, you'd know that not integrating yourself further with the EU is basically drawing ever closer to a day when Putin gains economic control over your nation.

And how is that worse than ending up like Greece?

Divair wrote:

DrakoLand wrote:
And how is that worse than ending up like Greece?

They're not hosting the Olympics, not inflating welfare systems faster than is necessary, not lying about their economic statistics, and not experiencing widespread tax evasion. Why would they end up like Greece?

DrakoLand wrote:

The yoshin empire wrote:So the choice is between a rupublic and a dictator?

EU is a *republic now?

Arglorand wrote:

Divair wrote:They're not hosting the Olympics, not inflating welfare systems faster than is necessary, not lying about their economic statistics, and not experiencing widespread tax evasion. Why would they end up like Greece?

Because, obviously, it happens every time a country joins the EU. I mean, just look at the Greekesque economic collapse the Swedes are suffering.

Inyourfaceistan wrote:

Arglorand wrote:Except they couldn't. If you'd know even the remotest thing about Eastern Europe's political situation, you'd know that not integrating yourself further with the EU is basically drawing ever closer to a day when Putin gains economic control over your nation.

Why do the only two choices seem to be join the E.U. or be a Russian puppet. Why is there no third option?

Divair wrote:

Arglorand wrote:Because, obviously, it happens every time a country joins the EU. I mean, just look at the Greekesque economic collapse the Swedes are suffering.

The Baltic states are doing incredibly bad, too!

Lipnitia wrote:The EU does nothing but sucks out money from poor nations. I'm sure it'll break-up, sooner or later.

The yoshin empire wrote:

Arglorand wrote:Except they couldn't. If you'd know even the remotest thing about Eastern Europe's political situation, you'd know that not integrating yourself further with the EU is basically drawing ever closer to a day when Putin gains economic control over your nation.

So the choice is between a rupublic and a dictator?

Hurdegaryp wrote:

The yoshin empire wrote:So the choice is between a rupublic and a dictator?

It's more a choice between the technocratic European Union and the always adorable Russian Federation.

Shove Piggy Shove wrote:

Lipnitia wrote:The EU does nothing but sucks out money from poor nations. I'm sure it'll break-up, sooner or later.

Care to back that up?

http://www.euromove.org.uk/index.php?id=15296

http://www.economicshelp.org/europe/benefits-eu/

Divair wrote:

Arglorand wrote:Because, obviously, it happens every time a country joins the EU. I mean, just look at the Greekesque economic collapse the Swedes are suffering.

The Baltic states are doing incredibly bad, too!

Hurdegaryp wrote:

Divair wrote:The Baltic states are doing incredibly bad, too!

And here in the Netherlands we have to remove the mortal remains of those who died of hunger from the streets every single day!

Liriena wrote:

Hurdegaryp wrote:It's more a choice between the technocratic European Union and the always adorable Russian Federation.

And in the European Union you get to vote. Sure, Germany outvotes everyone, but it could be worse.

Hurdegaryp wrote:

The yoshin empire wrote:So the choice is between a rupublic and a dictator?

It's more a choice between the technocratic European Union and the always adorable Russian Federation.

Arglorand wrote:

Liriena wrote:And in the European Union you get to vote. Sure, Germany outvotes everyone, but it could be worse.

It doesn't really outvote everyone. It only has 99 (12.9%) of the seats in the EP.

Liriena wrote:

Hurdegaryp wrote:It's more a choice between the technocratic European Union and the always adorable Russian Federation.

And in the European Union you get to vote. Sure, Germany outvotes everyone, but it could be worse.

The yoshin empire wrote:

Hurdegaryp wrote:It's more a choice between the technocratic European Union and the always adorable Russian Federation.

Putin hates Yaoi , Yuri , and anything Gay , Bi , lesbian , and transexual thus making it unadorable

Liriena wrote:

Arglorand wrote:It doesn't really outvote everyone. It only has 99 (12.9%) of the seats in the EP.

Totally a dictatorship.